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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » Treaty Discussions » Treaty Power Tree
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Topic Subject:Treaty Power Tree
Grady the Scot
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 00:26 AM EDT (US)         
My friends and I have been playing treaty games for while, and we think we have come up with a list of the order of powers in treaty games. So far we have decided

1. Russia/France
2.British/Portuguese
3.Dutch
4.Aztecs/Germans
5.Spanish/Iro
6.Otto/Sioux(because of the lack of walls)

Let us know what you think.
AuthorReplies:
CaptKirby
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 00:37 AM EDT (US)     1 / 19       
I could not agree with you more. I would say that the French will get knocked into second when the new patch comes out. It is just too hard to fight the Russians. Ports have a great military but cant hold up too the instant troops / fort spamming for the Russians or the superior economy of the French. While the British have the best economy in the game i would say that their military is sub French. As far as the dutch goes, sure they have banks but their income is just not enough to keep up. Aztecs are to easily countered. Germans are too pop heavy. Spanish units are not awesome and their economy is nothing special, the Iro have great cannons but don't have the troops or economy to support them. I wont even play the ottomans in a treaty game they are so underpowered.I think i would bump up the Sioux a couple spots if they have a teammate that could build walls for them.
JarlNick
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 00:38 AM EDT (US)     2 / 19       
I think Aztecs should be higher.

ESO: JarlNick

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Grady the Scot
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 00:40 AM EDT (US)     3 / 19       
I tend to agree with you about Russia. I don't want this to become a rut but I don't think there is a solid way for a French player to beat a good fort spammer.

Why do you think Aztecs should be higher?
CaptKirby
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 00:41 AM EDT (US)     4 / 19       
Where do you think they should be? The problem I saw was that they can be easily defeated by spamming LI and cannons.

As far as the Russians I would say that French would have to be on top of their game to take a good fort spammer out. But I would still put them with the Russians till after the patch.

[This message has been edited by CaptKirby (edited 08-22-2007 @ 00:47 AM).]

Grady the Scot
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 01:02 AM EDT (US)     5 / 19       
Fair enough Kirby.
NATron
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 02:26 AM EDT (US)     6 / 19       
During treaty games, chances are the Aztec might ERK spam, with the right cards they are deadly. I think that's why JarlNick wants them to be higher.

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exc4libulz1022
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 02:57 AM EDT (US)     7 / 19       
I'd bump up those aztecs too. I don't play much treaty, but ERK with all the card upgrades and a full firepit on attack dance destroy everything - LI and cannons included. God forbid he gets some of those beasts through your wall, you might as well kiss your economy goodbye, while you are chasing them around your base hes flooding more in. Still not as strong as french or russia of course, but I'd put them above brits, brits aren't even that great lategame.

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schildpad
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 04:17 AM EDT (US)     8 / 19       
I suppose we are talking about 40 minutes?

Brits lower for sure then. And otto higher.

Btw, heavy cannons will do decent enough vs ERK. No they dont counter them, but they do kill them.

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CaptKirby
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 12:09 PM EDT (US)     9 / 19       
Late game the brits are one of my favorites because they have the best economy as well as the best hussars and muskets. Not to mention their naids rip up walls and infantry. With the longbows defending behind walls it makes it easy to defend.
Grady the Scot
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 01:24 PM EDT (US)     10 / 19       
Yeah schildpad, although these would apply to forty minute treaty my friends and I usually play twenty or thirty.
The reason the ottomans are at the bottom is because of their low pop space in late game. Their economy is nothing special. Their Hussars are just normal. Their abus guns, although good, produce too slowly. Their cavalry archers are weak in comparison to most civ's anti-cavalry cavalry. The Jans are good for musketeers, but not much better than the British musketeers. They also produce much slower and are countered by LI which they have a hard time going toe to toe with.

I have not actually witnessed a ERK spam Natron. The Aztec we play with doesn't use them, but I will look into it. If they perform as well as you say then I would definitely bump the Aztecs up the list.

[This message has been edited by Grady the Scot (edited 08-22-2007 @ 01:29 PM).]

CaptKirby
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 02:41 PM EDT (US)     11 / 19       
I just ran a test of the ERK spam. But they got pwned by LI even with the firepit dance on. In an all on assault the the aztecs can't have the attack dance on as much as they would like cause of how painfully slow their units produce without the dance. I also test the other unit that claims to do well against the skirmishers, while they were able to beat out the skirm with the fire pit dance it was not by a huge margin, and with the firepit dance off i would say that it would be almost even. The problem with this is that they will have to be producing lots of troops in a long battle and thus can not handle having the attack dance on alot of the time. And a simple addition of a couple cannons would make them lose out over all. Thus only their ability to turtle with their walls make them even with the Germans. I still think they are too easily counterable to defeat the Dutch, French, Ports, Russians, or the British.
AI Guy
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 04:17 PM EDT (US)     12 / 19       
1. Russia
2. France (though very close to Russia)
3. Dutch (150 pop with a decent eco! also, spies is easily researchable)
4. Germans
5. Aztecs
6. Iroquois
7. Portuguese
8. Ottomans
9. Spanish
10. Brits (good in treaty = myth)
11. Sioux

That's my list, though it's more based on ffas in the ffa league than treaty.

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schildpad
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 04:30 PM EDT (US)     13 / 19       
Yeah schildpad, although these would apply to forty minute treaty my friends and I usually play twenty or thirty.
The reason the ottomans are at the bottom is because of their low pop space in late game. Their economy is nothing special. Their Hussars are just normal. Their abus guns, although good, produce too slowly. Their cavalry archers are weak in comparison to most civ's anti-cavalry cavalry. The Jans are good for musketeers, but not much better than the British musketeers. They also produce much slower and are countered by LI which they have a hard time going toe to toe with.
Their pop space is 100 for military, just like every other civ.
Their eco is just as good as the eco of all other euro civs (including french). Maybe they have 1 less eco card, but nothing important
Their hussars are royal guard
Their abus guns are pointless in treaty
Cav archers are better anti cav then goons late game. However they lose from goons.

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CaptKirby
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 04:38 PM EDT (US)     14 / 19       
While i might disagree with a few of you positions in a FFA setting....In my opinion in a 30 or 40min treaty(either one on one or with teams), the rankings are different than a FFA. The brits and the ports are defiantly one of the best, because the ports have one of the best armys and the British has a good military with the best economy.
Grady the Scot
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 05:40 PM EDT (US)     15 / 19       
Their pop space is 100 for military, just like every other civ.
Their eco is just as good as the eco of all other euro civs (including french). Maybe they have 1 less eco card, but nothing important.
I'll try to answer both at once. Most of the top civs on our list have unique economies which allow them to have total villagers less than 100 which gives them more population space to use for military.
Their hussars are royal guard
Cav archers are better anti cav then goons late game. However they lose from goons.
So dragoons can kill ottoman cavalry archers and hussars, and the Jans aren't good enough anti-cav infantry to make up for it. Oh and the British also have Royal guard hussars, which makes the Ottomans Royal guard hussars not unique. The fact that the ottoman light infantry killer, their Royal guard hussars can be countered by something they can't kill very well is a weakness in their military strength.
These are the reasons why we placed the ottomans at the bottom of the list
CaptKirby
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 09:39 PM EDT (US)     16 / 19       
Once the patch comes out and the cavalry archers get a boost I might put the ottomans up a spot.
AI Guy
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 10:22 PM EDT (US)     17 / 19       
the British has a good military with the best economy.
They have neither. Germans beat them at economy, and the British military sucks. The fact is, longbows are a horrible offensive unit. And to win a game, you have to go offensive. Your best best is either musks or dragoons + all types of artillery.
Try them. They are a horrible lategame civ.

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CaptKirby
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 10:41 PM EDT (US)     18 / 19       
Try them? They are one of my favorite civs to play. Their naids can eat through walls in no time their muskets are the best and your right about longbows not being good on offense, but you dont need them on offense. They also have the best hussars in the game. Their economy is the best because of livestock. In a treaty game you can take advantage of the 300 faster gathering. I can run 70 Vil with the British and beat most economies. And with 100 vils i can beat every single civ in the game. Not to mention that with the house boom you can boom faster then most civs in the game.
DrumsMaster26
Skirmisher
posted 08-24-07 06:11 PM EDT (US)     19 / 19       
No they dont counter them, but they do kill them.
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[This message has been edited by DrumsMaster26 (edited 08-24-2007 @ 06:13 PM).]

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