You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

General Discussions
Moderated by Maffia, LordKivlov, JimXIX

Hop to:    
Welcome! You are not logged in. Please Login or Register.131 replies
Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » Why does everyone like the British?
Bottom
Topic Subject:Why does everyone like the British?
« Previous Page  1 2 3 4 5 6  Next Page »
ThatisHILLARIOUS
Skirmisher
posted 05-18-05 08:03 PM EDT (US)         
My subject is self-explanatory.
But really, would you rather live in a nation were you have the Queen, and all the Queen does is drain money from the Budget. Or, would you prefer to live were the Czar (guess were that is) drains money from the Budget to finance the War or the Modernization.

note that capitalization express strong points or the beginings of sentences
when words preceded by 'the' are capitalized the phrase (the word and the 'the') should be given enunciation from the rest of the sentance that contains them


This is my sig.

True, it does suck.

But I deal with it.

Why can't you?
AuthorReplies:
Rogueagle
Skirmisher
posted 05-28-05 00:44 AM EDT (US)     76 / 131       
I was speculating quite far into the future when i said that though....thats not going to happen soon....and they won't "start thinking of themselves as Americans" - they already do. As does the rest of North, Central, and South America. The other nations in this hemisphere get rather annoyed when we refer to ourselves as 'American' as they consider themselves American too (as they are from the Americas). Hence the Spanish speaking countries call people from the United States los Estadounidenses (sp?), meaning people from the United States, just like Espanoles (with a tilde '~' over the 'n') or Mexicanos are people from Spain or from Mexico.

But yes, i know what you mean when you said think of themselves as American. But i don't think Canada will join the US...simply that both will cease to exist, and a new country combining both, and perhaps other nearby nations (Mexico?, Cuba?) will be formed...so both Americans (yes, i use that term for ourselves too, however inaccurate other cultures may say it is - too used to attaching America with United States myself) and Canadians will have to think of themselves as a new country. However they will still feel a sort of descent (200 years after unification with either America or Canada. So when AOE CLVIII: Age of America (i know that HAD to offend someone...so know that i'm not serious about it being Age of America....just thought it funny...about as inaccurate as Age of Discovery would have been ) comes out, the people of this new nation will tend to play the American or Canadian civ, depending on region...so to actually tie this seemingly off topic (actually its probably off topic anyways) back to the question - thats why the British civ is so popular...because 200 years into the birth of this nation, there is still some tie to the culture that originally spawned the people that created the ideals that the Untied States is based upon.

EDIT: when i said Untied States in the line above, i mean United States (hopefully a typo and not a Freudian slip, at least for the sake of my pride as an American, lol)

[This message has been edited by Rogueagle (edited 05-28-2005 @ 00:47 AM).]

ThatisHILLARIOUS
Skirmisher
posted 05-28-05 00:51 AM EDT (US)     77 / 131       
People from the US call themselves 'Americans' and it is in that capacity that I was refering to.
Would you prefer it if we called ourselves 'United Statians' because, in my opinion, that just sounds stupid.

And I was speculating far into the future too.

this message may sound 'cocky' but that wasn't meant to be so

Edit: I only read the first paragraph when I posted this. I'm too spontaneous.


This is my sig.

True, it does suck.

But I deal with it.

Why can't you?

[This message has been edited by ThatisHILLARIOUS (edited 05-28-2005 @ 00:54 AM).]

Luckyass
Skirmisher
posted 05-28-05 06:21 AM EDT (US)     78 / 131       

Quote:

As a side note - as someone pointed out, Britain didn't rise to power until after Elizabeth...From a little ahead of the Spanish Armada and back until the European discovery of America the Spanish (especially once Charles V inherited Spain and Southern Italy and the Holy Roman Empire and when his son Phillip II inherited Portugal as well) dominated (look at the Thirty Years War and the other German wars, and even the internal French Wars of the time - Spanish elite infantry keep showing up everywhere). And before the Armada, Portugal was probably the number 2 power (that and Catholic beliefs brought about the Treaty of Tordesillas, 1 and 2). Britain only rose to power later...and the rest weren't real colonial powers, though several, such as the Dutch and the French, had smaller holdings. Small is relative...not as in size, but importance to the home nation...Spain, Portugal, and Britain, and especially Spain and Britain depended utterly on their colonies, and once these colonies were gone, their global dominance dissappeared too - case in point: Latin America - mainly Lower and Upper Peru (Peru and Bolivia) and to a lesser degree, Mexico, for Spain, and India for Britain. Only Spain, Portugal, and Britain became near super-powers because of colonial holdings. (and the Ottomans and more locally the Inca, but that was because of colonial activities on the same landmass).

I think u just personally like Spain...
there are several examples of spain getting "pwned" :P
besides the spanish aramada getting slain by britain. Also an huge armada was destroyed by the Dutch.
And about the indians that were being slaughtered. The indians didnt have horses, guns and most important about 90% was killed by diseases from Europe.
Also i dont see Portugal as a top 3 civ at that moment. They only defeated the arabic forces with help of the pope...
The french were a huge power, also the british, well and after that maybe the spanish, but please dont make them better than they were...

Rogueagle
Skirmisher
posted 05-28-05 12:05 PM EDT (US)     79 / 131       
I agree...i do like the Spanish...and i like all the other civs as well...and i agree that Spain got its share of being kicked...but there is no question historically than Spain was by FAR the most powerful nation early into the colonization period. Its simply because mercantalism was not the predominant economic style of the time...they still depended on bullionism. And thus gold=power. So Ottomans were probably number two in power (perhaps even one), since they controlled all east west trade by land, and Portugal number three, since they controlled all east west trade by sea (Venice interestingly got left behind, and though they were happy to see the Byzantines fall, they expected to pick up the east west business, not the Ottomans). And Spain was number one because they ran into a culture that used gold for simple decoration and called it "the sweat of the Earth" because it was so common - the Inca.

And yes, the dutch and english did have their turns at kicking the spanish - much later, however. During the reign of Phillip II. His predeccesor, Charles V ruled Spain, Germany, and the SPANISH Netherlands (as they were known at the time) much of Italy and Sicily, ALL of North and South America, with the exception of Brazil. Hence the contemporary expression "when Spain marches, the world trembles."

Notice how i had said in my past post "before the Armada" - primarily because the Reformation wars that Charles and Phillip took Spain into bankrupted the country. And the mines in Upper Peru (Bolivia) and Lower Peru (Peru) were starting to dry up. And the English Privateers and the Buccanneers were starting to raid the bi-annual treasure fleet (why the Spanish occupied Flordida). At the time period i was referring to, your rankings of power are completely wrong....Spain and Portugal (though Portugal was all economic and had a weak military) were far, far more powerful than France (this around the time of the spider king and prior...France's true power was Louis IV and then Napoleon), and England was considered a nuisance (pre-Elizabethan England was simply not a strong country at this time...they were strong earlier during the Hundred Years War and such, and strong later, but at this time they were a mess).

The biggest problems arose when mercantalism became the dominant economic system. The Spanish had developed their colonies all wrong for such a system, and when the English finally got around the Spanish Navy after the Armada (prior to it, no one would dare engage it in a head on confrontation), they developed colonies to support an industrialized home nation. But since Spain had hit the motherlode for gold and silver, they thought they wouldn't need industry, as they could buy what they wanted. So while Spain had gold, they controlled the economy of every single European power, but once it began to run out, they were left with nothing but agriculture and a powerful military. So they tried to hold on to their power with the military, but the military power couldn't last long without economic backing, so Spain's power collapsed.

The other large problem was religion...Spain's rulers were adamantly determined to do its best to prevent the Reformation, but they failed, and bankrupted several nations, dropped the Hapsburgs from power everywhere but Austria and would (along with Hapsburg genetic troubles resulting from too much intermarrying) herald the War of the Spanish Succession, which would, though not as large as Wars like the Thirty Years War, remake the power structure in Europe, putting the Bourbons (now Spain and France) ahead of the Hapsburgs (previously Spain and Germany) for the first time, losing the Hapsburg Spanish the French hated so much, and prompting the French King to whisper that "there are no Pyrennes," launching a set of wars that united several nations against the Bourbons. Which is when the French rose to their heights in power. The English rose to theirs when they conquered India. And lost it when they lost India.

And i agree...the Native Population WAS slaughtered, as i said earlier. I think Spain, as a culture, has committed perhaps the worst crimes of any culture in the name of God, essentially annihilating entire civilizations, along with their history and culture. But as i said, i found them interesting because of the contrast. The extreme horrors as well as the adamant honor. When you say "better than they were," if you mean as in power, than, no i am not making them better than they were, as they really were that powerful. But if you meant morally, i apologize for that. I think (people are going to hate me for this and i'll say sorry now) that European culture, including Spain, Portugal, France, Britain, etc. has committed some of the most unforgivable acts in history. But then again, so has the United States. And Islamic cultures. And every other culture for that matter. But the reason i brought that up is because i liked Spain for the "what if" of if they had done things correctly, and if we would be typing this in Spanish rather than English. But people like to play Britain, because the Spanish DID mess up, and Britain capitalized upon that, and now, we are typing in English.

HC Dragoon
Skirmisher
posted 05-28-05 01:43 PM EDT (US)     80 / 131       
I agree, Spain should be the most powerful nation at the start of the game but later on Britain should become the superpower. I believe the Ottomans were generally a powerful nation right through the time span of the game, maybe becoming slightly weaker towards the end though.
kipling
Skirmisher
posted 05-28-05 01:49 PM EDT (US)     81 / 131       
Interesting theories on the future of Canada... personally I don't think it's population will ever really be big enough to make it a superpower but I would expect it to overtake Italy sometime soon (World Ranking of Power goes, I believe: USA, Japan, Germany, Britain, France, Italy, Canada).
Luckyass
Skirmisher
posted 05-28-05 01:56 PM EDT (US)     82 / 131       
i do see ur point. And spain was definately a power at that moment. But if u are talking about the spain from before 1500, then i would assume naming other civs, like Italy, Ottomans, Moors and probably not relevant for Europe the Chinese.
U are also talking about Portugal, but it lasted untill 1640 before Portugal was independant. So i cant really talk about a number three position for Portugal before the 1588 fall of the armada.

Quote:

And i agree...the Native Population WAS slaughtered, as i said earlier. I think Spain, as a culture, has committed perhaps the worst crimes of any culture in the name of God, essentially annihilating entire civilizations, along with their history and culture.

sorry, i think u misunderstood me.. I said Spain didnt slaugtered the indian populations, maybe 10% of them. Their deseases killed about 90% of the indians.
And i dont blame Spain for killing the last 10% of the indians. They would have done the same with european non-catholics.

Jim lister
Skirmisher
posted 05-28-05 04:21 PM EDT (US)     83 / 131       
take the aztecs for an example they honoured the spanish and gav them gifts and what do they do slaughter them, hold their leader hostage and take their gold!
Rogueagle
Skirmisher
posted 05-28-05 04:38 PM EDT (US)     84 / 131       
The list of other cultures was simply to make clear that i was not insulting the British or Spanish by stating what they had done wrong, as all cultures have committed great crimes (though some more so than others).

Yes, 90%, by some estimates, did die to disease (though i have to point out the smallpox infected blankets used by the United States much later was an idea first taken from the Spanish...Spain made good use of the illnesses in its conquests). But, if you read my post carefully, you will see i did not accuse them as solely responsible for massacring the populace, but the largest factor in annihilating their culture (language, history, just about everything). Such as the burning of just about every book written in Nahuatl (Mexica/Aztecs), wiping out the history of every group they ran into, forced conversions under threat of death, etc. They almost succeeded wiht Nahuatl, though the language still sruvives, and though they failed in eliminating Quechua, they erased almost all of Inca history. Later the Spanish regretted this, as they ran into many revolts they could not understand, as they no longer had a single source to study in order to understand the culture.

And Portugal....Portugal RE-gained its independence from the Spanish Crown in 1640...this independence was AFTER Portugal had been inherited by Phillip II and dominated by his father Charles V. Portugal initially gained its independence in 1143, and the Pope recognized this in 1179. Portugal was one of many kingdoms on the Iberian Penninsula, such as Castille, Portugal, Andalucia, Leon, Aragon, Valencia, Navarre, Barcelona (independent for a bit, i believe) and a multitude of others. To be more accurate, when i referred to Spain in my previous posts, i meant primarily Castille (though Castille was united with Leon early, and with Ferdinand, came Aragon). And when i said Spanish, i meant Castillian, as thats the predominant dialect today. Spain as country has not been around for a fraction as long, and i believe Napoleon (not sure about this....perhaps it unified during the war of Spanish Succession) was the one who finally ended the old Kingdoms, as he ended the Holy Roman Empire (finally). Portugal most certainly existed prior to this, and from what i can tell, i would rank it third...clearly that last part is debatable, as ranking power is nigh impossible, especially since Portuguese power was mostly economic and naval.

btw, They held Atahualpa, the Inca (which is actually the title of the leader....what the culture called itself is lost to posterity), hostage for gold...they slaughtered both though. The Aztec were generous with the Spanish, as Montezuma probably thought he was Quetzalcoatl (Cortez told him he was just Quetzalcoatl's messenger though). The Inca was just contemptuous of Pizzaro...and frankly (as i detailed in another thread some time back), i think if the Spanish were not so absurdly lucky, the Inca could have beaten the Spanish.

And yes...Spain would have done the same with European non-catholics too. They certainly tried.

tumblingwall
Skirmisher
posted 05-28-05 06:21 PM EDT (US)     85 / 131       
people eventually choose neither. but that was only because the upper classes didn't do there job, which in feudalism is to take care of the people. Plato said that it would work (in a way, not exactly (but feudalism at that time did have 4 classes(until the bourgeois came about))), and it did work. but then the upper class didn't take care of the lower classes in france.

thus, the age of Revolutions.

and eventually the next age of revolutions.



^ very original and thought provoking statement ^
GaryPayton
Skirmisher
posted 05-29-05 07:22 AM EDT (US)     86 / 131       
Well I'm leaning towards the Portuguese more than the brithish maybe cause I'm Brazilian
Jim lister
Skirmisher
posted 05-29-05 07:30 AM EDT (US)     87 / 131       
i am also picking the british because of the spanishes unsteardy government like theyve had muslim, catholic, and many other cultures in their land . and definitely muany more civil wars then britain.


now most poeple that our buying this game our american british and canadian. now for America and Canada the british have had much more influence in our lives an we our more used to their culure and ways of life.

Kor
Busschof Happertesch
(id: Derfel Cadarn)
posted 05-30-05 05:04 AM EDT (US)     88 / 131       

Quote:

now most poeple that our buying this game our american british and canadian. now for America and Canada the british have had much more influence in our lives an we our more used to their culure and ways of life.


Their spelling, however, seems to have passed you by.

Kor | The Age of Chivalry is upon us!
Wellent ich gugk, so hindert mich / köstlicher ziere sinder,
Der ich e pflag, da für ich sich / Neur kelber, gaiss, böck, rinder,
Und knospot leut, swarz, hässeleich, / Vast rüssig gen dem winder;
Die geben müt als sackwein vich. / Vor angst slach ich mein kinder
Offt hin hinder.
beekay
Skirmisher
(id: black_knight_101)
posted 05-30-05 05:20 AM EDT (US)     89 / 131       

Quote:

Their spelling, however, seems to have passed you by.

*fixes*

Quote:

Their grammer, however, seems to have passed you by.


sig
Kor
Busschof Happertesch
(id: Derfel Cadarn)
posted 05-30-05 06:22 AM EDT (US)     90 / 131       
Learn how to spell "grammar". And his post was, in fact, riddled with spelling errors such as unsteardy, muany, poeple, and culure.

Kor | The Age of Chivalry is upon us!
Wellent ich gugk, so hindert mich / köstlicher ziere sinder,
Der ich e pflag, da für ich sich / Neur kelber, gaiss, böck, rinder,
Und knospot leut, swarz, hässeleich, / Vast rüssig gen dem winder;
Die geben müt als sackwein vich. / Vor angst slach ich mein kinder
Offt hin hinder.
Thebean
Skirmisher
posted 05-30-05 06:23 AM EDT (US)     91 / 131       
How can a person get 'our' and 'are' mixed up?

Meteora is a pissy bitch

Dio is Trentin Anthony Tracanna
Dio is Trentin Anthony Tracanna
Dio is Trentin Anthony Tracanna
Dio is Trentin Anthony Tracanna
Shusky
Skirmisher
(id: Silver Husky)
posted 05-30-05 06:49 AM EDT (US)     92 / 131       
Some people are just skilled.

On a totally unrelated note, Thebean, I must ask you why are you located at my 16th birthday

British_Eagle
Guest
posted 05-30-05 09:26 AM EDT (US)     93 / 131       
ok Why are People Arguing About spelling? and ok i cant speel and my grammer sucks before anyone bothers to point that out.

by the way is that guy either:
A. 32 Year Old Historian
B. Reading From A History Book
C. Realy Realy Bored.
OR
D. Falls Asleep With the History Channel On.

Also Ill Be Using Britain Because I THink My Country is Teh greatist. This Doesnt Mean I Think Every Other Country Sucks, I Just Think Mines Better :P

Think Of The World Cup. (For All You Non-Americans) you Support Your own Country, Even If You have A Favourate to win. It Just seems Odd not To support Your country.

and Sorry I Cant Think of an example for the americans.... i dont think you do any sports with the rest of the world...


Ninja Beagle
"My weenie is beautiful." - Doikie
"Is it just me, or does beagle need neutering?" - Yakcamkir

[This message has been edited by British_Eagle (edited 05-30-2005 @ 09:27 AM).]

Thanatos
Skirmisher
(id: deathmaster666)
posted 05-30-05 11:31 AM EDT (US)     94 / 131       

Quote:

World Ranking of Power goes, I believe: USA, Japan, Germany, Britain, France, Italy, Canada).

Out of curiosity, on what basis did you get that?

Help me to tally the forums belief patterns, vote in my poll

Tally so far:-
Agnostics:18
Atheists:28
Theists:42
Thebean
Skirmisher
posted 05-30-05 12:14 PM EDT (US)     95 / 131       

Quote:

On a totally unrelated note, Thebean, I must ask you why are you located at my 16th birthday

Co-incidence

Quote:

by the way is that guy either:
A. 32 Year Old Historian
B. Reading From A History Book
C. Realy Realy Bored.
OR
D. Falls Asleep With the History Channel On.

True.

Also, in terms of why I'll be playing the British, well, I guess I'm just proud of my own country. The British in all games seem militarised and disciplined, I suppose that's why people play them.


Meteora is a pissy bitch

Dio is Trentin Anthony Tracanna
Dio is Trentin Anthony Tracanna
Dio is Trentin Anthony Tracanna
Dio is Trentin Anthony Tracanna

[This message has been edited by Thebean (edited 05-30-2005 @ 12:16 PM).]

Shusky
Skirmisher
(id: Silver Husky)
posted 05-30-05 01:00 PM EDT (US)     96 / 131       

Quote:

Co-incidence

Good.

*Crawls out of the anti-stalking hole*

ThunderWalker
Skirmisher
posted 05-30-05 01:39 PM EDT (US)     97 / 131       
ok, when i was readin through this topic, there was a few people dumping on Bush, how stupid can yall really be. i like the britains, they are the only ones we have gotten some support from in the war. and some of u said just for oil, maybe yall didnt see the footage takin by the reporters that went over seas, did yall not see the bodys buried outside of sudam's palace, the ones he killed, he was a dictator, they had NO FREEDOM, its suprises me to see the stupidity coming from some people, o ya, i dont know where but someone said somthin about nuclear weapons. if war did come to that, guess who has basically half of all nuclear weapons, the USA does. so dont come cryin if war ever does come to that wanting protection, thats all i wanted to say on that, just irritated me how some people were talkin, now on the game, i would have liked to see a irish type civ, but you dont always get what u want
Rogueagle
Skirmisher
posted 05-30-05 05:38 PM EDT (US)     98 / 131       
haha....referring to me by "that guy"? (if you aren't ignore the next paragraph...or read in anyways, if you want to)

Sorry to destroy the image...but i'm neither A (much younger, and not officially a Historian), B (no need for it at this level of detail or on this topic), or D (just can't happen). C...perhaps at the time i was writing the post (of course i like talking about history, so i stopped being bored once i got into it). I just really like history, especially following trends through it to our present time (and you are probably thinkint thats really odd, lol). I actually did not have to do research for all that...except for the two Portuguese dates, since someone claimed a really late independence date for them, which didn't make sense in the least from what i knew Portugal as a country had done, rulers i knew existed, and treaties i knew it signed. I just like being familiar with history, and it bothers me that people make such foolish assumptions (no offense to anyone intended) without knowing any of the facts. Heh...i don't even have cable, so i *wish* i could fall asleep watching the history channel...

And i'm sorry for my speling and grammer mistakes

But you all need to keep in mind that an online forum does not need to be completely perfect (syntactically at least). And some people speak other languages than English as their native tongue (unfortunately my mistakes can't be excused like that). Of course, the post *does* need to be fairly easily understood (hinting to certain posts in this thread - while avoiding insulting anyone, hopefully). It usually a bad sign when understanding what is written requires more effort than the lazily typing it.

Btw, political statements like that last are VERY off-topic in this thread, and i am going to avoid stating my opinion (pro- or anti- Bush, etc) on the topic. However, i will say that your reasoning is flawed, primarily since the facts you used are flawed. Disgustingly so, in some cases. Take the example saying the United States only got support from the British. Then why was their a period in which the second largest (US being first, of course) deployment of troops from any nation was Poland? And why did Ukraine have such a giant force in the nation as well? Or Japan, for example, sent about 300 soldiers, which seems like very little - but considering that this incident was the first time since World War II that Japan has deployed forces outside its own country, its a huge political statment. Freedom is also relative to various cultures, and each culture expects a different degree of government involvement (i am not disputing Saddam's cruelty or tyranny or that he was bad for Iraq, only that you need not generalize like that). As for the reporter's reporting that Saddam abused people, how are the incidents such as that in Abu Ghraib (commited by US troops) any better? And your understanding of nuclear warfare is flawed. Yes, Russia and the US have more than 10,000 warheads. France has about 550, China has about 500, UK about 450, India has probaly over a hundred, and Pakistan has probably under a hundred. Israel and North Korea and a few other countries have probably obtained a couple. (btw, i am primarily referring to strategic warheads, not tactical). However, if the France decided to destroy 550 American cities, the 10,000 we can retaliate with will be useless...the cost is still too high. That is the basis of MADD. However, it does get more complicated (France could probably not use all 550 succesfully, due to timing and retaliation), which is why the US has such extreme redunancy built into their systems, and weapon delivery gets even more complicated. So could you please avoid accusing people of stupidity for nothing other than disagreeing with you? Especially since you could hardly make a coherent statment, even though (since you said "we" referring to the United States) you probably know English better than that? As i said earlier, the post doesn't need to be perfect, but especially if you are calling someone else stupid, please make it somewhat understandable?

Please keep in mind that i am not arguing for or against our current President (although i DO have an opinion on the matter). I was just trying to point out that arguments for either side should at least contain a minimum of logic and accuracy - and should especially avoid offending both those who agree with you and those who disagree. I apologize once more for actually replying to the off-topic portion of the thread (and i hope that portion of the discussion is not continued), and i was merely attempting to correct the facts, not state my opinion. I apologize if that was inappropriate as well.

As for who i will play first - probably in the following order (though i probably won't know until i get my hands on the game) Spain, Britain, Ottomans, Russia, Portugal, France, Dutch, Germany.

EDIT: clarified/corrected typo

[This message has been edited by Rogueagle (edited 05-30-2005 @ 05:42 PM).]

HC Dragoon
Skirmisher
posted 05-30-05 06:31 PM EDT (US)     99 / 131       
Off topic- I agree completely about the nuclear weapons Rogueagle. A nation is better off not having any nukes at all to be honest, since you will be less likely to actually get hit by a nuclear strike. If a nation decides to have nuclear weapons, any where between 100 and 400 is a good number and anything over that is a waste of tax payers money.
The United Kingdom could wipe every major and minor United States city off the map, pretty much ending the United States. Yes the United Kingdom would also be destroyed in the process, but my point is what good is there in having 7000 extra missiles if your dead? LOL. It also only takes about 400 nukes to create a nuclear winter.

On topic- I'll play as Britain first, then Spain, Russia, Portugal, Netherlands, Ottomans, France, Germany.

[This message has been edited by HC Dragoon (edited 05-30-2005 @ 07:23 PM).]

kipling
Skirmisher
posted 05-30-05 06:45 PM EDT (US)     100 / 131       

Quote:

Out of curiosity, on what basis did you get that?


Well, I saw a TV program last night that showed what Europe's most powerful nations were. Japan and the USA are definately 1 and 2 and since canada is the other G7 member it must be last.
« Previous Page  1 2 3 4 5 6  Next Page »
You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Hop to:    

Age of Empires III Heaven | HeavenGames