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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » dead bodies
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Topic Subject:dead bodies
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Putanky
Skirmisher
posted 06-18-05 04:21 PM EDT (US)         
In the video i notice the bodies dissapear quickly. I think the bodies should stay there until the game is over. Maybe as time progresses they can rott until they turn into bones. I don't like how they just vanish.
AuthorReplies:
Spacemonk
Skirmisher
posted 06-18-05 04:52 PM EDT (US)     1 / 41       
It's gonna take a shitload of RAM if you want to let all the bodies stay untill the end of the game. They certainly have to dissapear at some point, maybe not as fast as in the video. Also don't forget they're still working on it and units dieing ain't the most important thing, they're working on more important things like balancing all the civs/units/hc techs, they'll do little things like footprints and rotting bodies later on probably. At least I don't think they're high on the priority list.

"Give me Age of Empires, sir, and you may keep your Warcraft."
SilentScreams
Skirmisher
posted 06-18-05 04:55 PM EDT (US)     2 / 41       
A lot of dead bodies make it harder to distinguish the functional units.

For instance, in AoT it's sometimes hard to estimate the amount of living Turmae in a horde (Turma bodies seem brighter than other bodies for some reason).


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Paperkut
Skirmisher
posted 06-18-05 04:56 PM EDT (US)     3 / 41       
The hats and guns are affected by physics. Bodies bounce off walls and splash in the water. Now you want bodies to stay there?

People are never happy.

Spacemonk
Skirmisher
posted 06-18-05 04:57 PM EDT (US)     4 / 41       
He wants them to stay where they landed, and also they don't fly miles away when you slashed them to death with a sword, so .....

"Give me Age of Empires, sir, and you may keep your Warcraft."
Ichbinian
Skirmisher
posted 06-18-05 05:28 PM EDT (US)     5 / 41       
A lot of RAM to make bodies stay? What? For RTW, you only need 256MB at least to run the game, and the bodies stay .

Ichbinian
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Elpea
Hal
(id: lp_usa)
posted 06-18-05 05:43 PM EDT (US)     6 / 41       
If the bodies aren't affected by physics any longer.. I guess.

Spacemonk
Skirmisher
posted 06-18-05 06:18 PM EDT (US)     7 / 41       

Quote:

A lot of RAM to make bodies stay? What? For RTW, you only need 256MB at least to run the game, and the bodies stay

jeeeez can people please stop comparing rts games to rtw. RTW is turn based and you can only fight one battle at the time and then that single battle is realtime, the rest of the game is NOT realtime, unlike in REAL rts games where everything goes simultainiously.


"Give me Age of Empires, sir, and you may keep your Warcraft."
Hal4
Skirmisher
posted 06-18-05 07:17 PM EDT (US)     8 / 41       
The fact that there's a TBS game going behind the RTS part of RTW doesn't make the RTS part any less of a resource drain, or anymore. The point is just that they model lots 'o lots 'o lots 'o units on the screen at once.

Whether it's a fair comparison... I dunno. But you know it's one that's going to be made- for better or for worse, if ES is going to put a lot of units on the screen, as I expect they will, they will be compared to RTW.


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Spacemonk
Skirmisher
posted 06-18-05 08:02 PM EDT (US)     9 / 41       
well maybe you could compare it... but still the games are very different and you should imo not compare them. Although there are a lot of units on screen, there are also a lot of things wich make it possible. Just to name a few I know of:
The units are not controlled induvidially and the detail in both textures and animations is much lesser when units are further away.
Those are things ES does not do in their games. Just because they like to control every induvidial unit (so do I) and they prefer to have the units at full detail all the time wich Deathshrimp said somewhere iirc.

Anyway back on topic:

Dead bodies should imo dissapear afther some time, but they have to last long enough so you can actually see all the dead bodies afther a big fight. Not like they already vanished while you were still fighting.


"Give me Age of Empires, sir, and you may keep your Warcraft."

[This message has been edited by Spacemonk (edited 06-18-2005 @ 08:06 PM).]

Sunshine
Banned
posted 06-18-05 08:39 PM EDT (US)     10 / 41       
With dead bodies, they should stay till a certain point in the game. Not the entire game, but a specific limit - maybe 10 minutes or something.
Pete_222
Skirmisher
posted 06-18-05 09:06 PM EDT (US)     11 / 41       

Quote:

The fact that there's a TBS game going behind the RTS part of RTW doesn't make the RTS part any less of a resource drain, or anymore. The point is just that they model lots 'o lots 'o lots 'o units on the screen at once.


But with R:TW there is a fixed number of troops dead+alive in the whole battle (counting reinforcements), in Age games usually you create many more during the course of the game.
IMO the AoM system was pretty good, although maybe a *tad* to fast, but they probably really do have to get rid of them sometime.

- Pete

Farzin
Banned
posted 06-18-05 10:25 PM EDT (US)     12 / 41       
i think the age of empires 2 system was perfect. i dont want the bodies to stay forever but i want them to last for a couple of battles. PLus, the Age2 corpses looked good, compared to the darkgreen goopy slimey 2 dimensional bodies of AoM
Saurus
Skirmisher
posted 06-18-05 10:41 PM EDT (US)     13 / 41       
I like the AOM sistem, I don't want to see the enemy's dead bodies in the middle of the way of my units.

Sorry for my English, I'm from Argentina
lachlan
Skirmisher
posted 06-18-05 11:06 PM EDT (US)     14 / 41       
As usual Age of Kings set it perfectly. They didn't last forever but were visible long enough to show the effects of a grand battle. ES should copy it to the T.
Bk 101
Guest
posted 06-18-05 11:29 PM EDT (US)     15 / 41       

Quote:

compared to the darkgreen goopy slimey 2 dimensional bodies of AoM

WTH? Have you even played AoM? Dark green, goopy, slimey bodies? What are you smoking?

Quote:

But with R:TW there is a fixed number of troops dead+alive in the whole battle (counting reinforcements), in Age games usually you create many more during the course of the game.

Does the number of units created usually go up to 4000 in your games?


black_knight_101

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NoxMortus
Skirmisher
posted 06-19-05 00:25 AM EDT (US)     16 / 41       
well, if anyone remembers thier aoe & aok dead bodies, they in fact did rot to skeletons and slowly disappeared. To have them remain for the duration of the game is not functional, as in DM games, you will have the map covered in bodies taking attention away from the living units...
PrinceScamp
Skirmisher
posted 06-19-05 00:27 AM EDT (US)     17 / 41       
mmm, i think they should stay for 5 mins, i do wish they would last a lot longer, but not the whole games, but not disapear right away like in stronghold (so annoying), or go flat & ugly like AOM, so far i have like AOK dead the best, though it would also be nice to have static dead bodys you can add in the editor like in AOM

Wich of the following locations you like the best?: Fortified Estate, Inside a Supernova, is Out of Sync
Hot girl thread!
izzy
Skirmisher
(id: Ballista_Turtle)
posted 06-19-05 01:36 AM EDT (US)     18 / 41       
AOK units are animated 2d renderings. AOM units on the other hand are actual 3d models.

In AOK, when a unit died, it went through a few phases, firstly, the animation of the death, when it hits the ground. Secondly, an ES artist had to paint blood onto the bitmap, and then thirdly, I don't know whether or not AOK death animations were done with some kind of specializied generator by hand, but the animations for 'decay' were only 5 images long, and were simply the last frame of the death animation edited into a skeletal figure.

In SWGB, the artists simply made the decay frames for the units a very slow and tacky animation of them sinking into the ground, which works, because most star wars games like to avoid blood, but it also meant they didn't have to do any work at all when it came to making them decay.

In AOM, they didnt have that luxury, if they wanted to make the units 'rot' into a skeleton, they'd have to make new models with blood edited on, and make even more models of the skeletal versions, which I think would take forever, especially since no one will even care about the decay frames, though they are nice to look at, since they give you glimpse of the battlefield. This is because of the fact that the units are 3D models. So what they did was animate their death then add a seperate little animation for blood, which seems to be shared among most units, (the scarab uses its own blood sequence), and then make a "tracing" of the last death frame, when units would die the tracing would appear under them, and the AOM units would thus sink into the image, giving an effect that they decayed, or something.

In AOE3... it will be even harder to do "decay" frames because of the new physics engine they will incorporate. In AOM the units died in a set way, so they could just simply trace the outline of the body, but in AOE3, they dont have that luxury because every unit will die in a different way. So I dont blame them for making units 'fade' instead of decay, because it would take an awful lot of work to make a dead body for every single unit.

In WC3, they had a (seemingly) simpler system which I thought looked pretty good, but I dont feel like explaining it.

PrinceScamp
Skirmisher
posted 06-19-05 02:01 AM EDT (US)     19 / 41       
hmm, interesting point izzy, but, i still like aok better than aom deaths, and the blood level is perfect. i wouldnt mind that if they had 5 poses for the dead for each units,

Wich of the following locations you like the best?: Fortified Estate, Inside a Supernova, is Out of Sync
Hot girl thread!
schildpad
Skirmisher
posted 06-19-05 03:24 AM EDT (US)     20 / 41       
i prefer aom's, did you ever c a dead battleboar?
steace43
Skirmisher
posted 06-19-05 04:07 PM EDT (US)     21 / 41       
I think you should be able to decide yourself how long the bodies stay, then you will need to balance RAM against good grapichs.
Anonamis
Skirmisher
posted 06-19-05 06:28 PM EDT (US)     22 / 41       
That wud be a great idea! that way everyone can customize it how they like it. I wud like it if dead bodies looked alot different from live ones tho so u can tell if they're alive or not and so u can see how many units are left after the smoke clears
Real2002
Skirmisher
posted 06-19-05 06:43 PM EDT (US)     23 / 41       
Kind of unrelated but still having to do with bodies... I noticed in one or two screen shots somewhere that the bodies all looked the same when they died in battle. I doubt this will be fixed but it did stand out a lot. If the bodies fell in different ways it would look better.


Found a picture. Note the dead guys in blue. I guess there are different positions for them to fall in but what stands out is that ones that are next to each other all fell the same way:
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/ageofempiresiii/screens_6127470.html?page=2

[This message has been edited by Real2002 (edited 06-19-2005 @ 06:46 PM).]

Nashlabs
Skirmisher
posted 06-19-05 09:01 PM EDT (US)     24 / 41       
Asking for the bodies to stay where they were when they get shot the whole game is asking alot, but it would be really cool and give the game even more realism.

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Taufiq Khan
Skirmisher
(id: Shala_T)
posted 06-19-05 10:26 PM EDT (US)     25 / 41       

Quote:

With dead bodies, they should stay till a certain point in the game. Not the entire game, but a specific limit - maybe 10 minutes or something.


Nah, not 10min. I think 1min would be more fun . Battles don't last thaat long.

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