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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » Windows 2000
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Topic Subject:Windows 2000
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Ykkrosh
Skirmisher
posted 09-07-05 07:03 PM EDT (US)         
"Age of Empires III Trial requires Windows XP or later" - well, okay, except it's lying.

I use Windows 2000, so the installer refuses to run - but I can install on a spare machine that's running XP, then copy the installed files, and it appears to work perfectly well on 2K.

As far as I can see, there's no reason why the installer should be telling me to upgrade. An updated version of the demo, without this bug, would be appreciated. I shouldn't have to mess around so much just to run a game, and if it's not fixed in the retail version, ES has lost at least one sale.


Update: If you have encountered this problem, see post #111 for a way to install the game.

[This message has been edited by Ykkrosh (edited 09-09-2005 @ 07:58 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
Vindicator983
Skirmisher
posted 09-08-05 00:54 AM EDT (US)     26 / 243       
I totally agree with you Ender.

Also, to my knowledge they make new operating systems backwards compatible to a certain degree so you can run older programs on them. So why is it so hard to make a game for more then one PC, and I stress PC operating system. I could see where writing it for a Mac or other system would be totally different. But these operating systems are almost identical.

Also, I didn't upgrade my operating system when I was upgrading other components because Windows XP isn't that much better. Sure it may be easier to use for new computer users, but is not faster then 2000 in all aspects. The upgrade wasn't worth it. In fact, I don't see why anyone would have Windows XP unless they bought a system with it already on it. I don't see why you would waste the money on upgrading to it.

My big problem is that if all new games coming out were doing this that would be one thing. But so far this is the only game I have heard of that is not Windows 2000 compatible.

Lysimachus
Skirmisher
posted 09-08-05 00:57 AM EDT (US)     27 / 243       
Don't worry guys, I've lived and breathed Windows 2000. And I would never go back to it, not for a million dollars. Windows XP Pro is the way to go for gaming.

Hey listen, if you like Win2K better, fine! But I don't blame ES for not optimizing it for the Win2K OS in the least. It just isn't worth the investment seeing the miniscule amount of Win2K gamers.

And I'm not speaking of just Windows XP Ender, I'm speaking of Windows XP Professional. There is a big difference between the two. I also do not recall experiencing any faster peformance with Win2K. My XP Pro runs like a charm. It boots up and shuts down in seconds.


~Lysimachus - Former HG Angel for Rise & Fall Heaven || Was RaFH Game Info Admin || Proud Member of HG since 1998

[This message has been edited by Lysimachus (edited 09-08-2005 @ 01:02 AM).]

Vindicator983
Skirmisher
posted 09-08-05 01:07 AM EDT (US)     28 / 243       
I blame them. It wouldn't cost any more to optimize for windows 2000 and XP then it did 1 year ago or when they brought out Age of Mythology. Basicly they are saving money, trying to get everyone to buy XP before their new operating system comes out, and screwing gamers.
nidhogg13
Banned
posted 09-08-05 01:44 AM EDT (US)     29 / 243       

Quote:

Hey listen, if you like Win2K better, fine! But I don't blame ES for not optimizing it for the Win2K OS in the least. It just isn't worth the investment seeing the miniscule amount of Win2K gamers.


They dont need to optimize it, they need to *let us install it* Its optimized already, and if it doesnt run perfectly, oh well.
ES_Bigdog
VIP
posted 09-08-05 01:59 AM EDT (US)     30 / 243       
It would cost us more to optimize/test/compat/etc on 2K. In the end, it was a decision that was made to streamline the workload and provide the best experience for the largest group of customers. Given the responses here, I'm sure we'll discuss our plan to not let folks install on 2K, but I'm not promising any change.

As far as other XP only games, Dungeon Siege 2 and BF2 (IIRC) come to mind.

dave

[This message has been edited by ES_Bigdog (edited 09-08-2005 @ 02:00 AM).]

Vindicator983
Skirmisher
posted 09-08-05 02:02 AM EDT (US)     31 / 243       
One of my problems with it was that AoE III is a Microsoft game. If a non-Microsoft game had those specs I might think a little different. DS II is also a Microsoft game. I guess since Battlefield 2 isn't that will appease my notions of their being a Microsoft conspiracy.
Masarius
Skirmisher
posted 09-08-05 02:04 AM EDT (US)     32 / 243       

Quote:

For those of you who have Windows 2000 and not Windows XP Pro, I think it's aweful silly of you to not have gotten XP Pro a long time ago. It's the 21st century folks. It's time to move on. If you don't upgrade to XP Pro, then tough turds. I guess you won't be playing AoE3 then. :/

Awful silly? A quick look on the Dick Smith Electronics web page (a major electronics vender in New Zealand) has the price for Microsoft Windows XP Professional SP2 Full as NZ$794 (link), with the upgrade at NZ$498. I'm in the same situation as Ender, I have a windows 2000 machine I built back in the day and upgrade when I can afford to. I have never encountered a single problem with any game or any of my hardware while running this operating system. So why is it "aweful silly" that I have never gone out and blown $800 on some software when I have never had any problems with what I've got?

You and ES are forgetting that we aren't all power gamers who have the ability to make very expensive upgrades whenever we like. The casual gamer who has the hardware but not the software misses out.

Quote:

They dont need to optimize it, they need to *let us install it* Its optimized already, and if it doesnt run perfectly, oh well.

I agree. The thread starter has already said it runs well on 2000, so they could simply alert us to the fact it isn't supported and let us try it at our own risk. We shouldn't have to shell out a huge sum of money just to play one game.


Check out my blog!
www.masarius.com

[This message has been edited by Masarius (edited 09-08-2005 @ 02:08 AM).]

pyro786
Skirmisher
posted 09-08-05 02:13 AM EDT (US)     33 / 243       
couldnt es say something like "we wont support you if its running on 2k, but you can try!"?
i mean, as far as i heard it works perfectly, except that you guys made it so it cant install.
now i have xp, so im not complaining, i just sympathize with the 2kers.
Lysimachus
Skirmisher
posted 09-08-05 03:01 AM EDT (US)     34 / 243       
Let me rephrase what I said. Not that anyone should feel obligated to upgrade to WinXP Pro from Win2K. However, if you do intend to keep Win2K, my recommendation is to keep it on a dedicated machine and have WinXP/Pro on another. What I think is silly is when people get inflexible and feel they cannot upgrade simply because they are used to a certain setting.

And yes, there is optimization involved for Win2K. Even though you may be able to get it to run on the machine, simply "running" it isn't telling you everything as far as benchmarks are concerned. I'd like to see some real performance statistics between Win2K and WinXP Pro.

One thing I do know is that this demo is running like a charm on my XP Pro system. I have an ATI-Radeon 9700 Pro, and the graphics look way better than they did while testing the game at ES. I'm very impressed, and have experienced virtually no lag.


~Lysimachus - Former HG Angel for Rise & Fall Heaven || Was RaFH Game Info Admin || Proud Member of HG since 1998

[This message has been edited by Lysimachus (edited 09-08-2005 @ 11:05 AM).]

Disinherited
Skirmisher
posted 09-08-05 03:25 AM EDT (US)     35 / 243       

Quote:

It would cost us more to optimize/test/compat/etc on 2K. In the end, it was a decision that was made to streamline the workload and provide the best experience for the largest group of customers. Given the responses here, I'm sure we'll discuss our plan to not let folks install on 2K, but I'm not promising any change.

As far as other XP only games, Dungeon Siege 2 and BF2 (IIRC) come to mind.


Let me point out to you that BF2, while it does not support Windows 2000, does allow the game install and run on Windows 2000. I run BF2 on Windows 2000 and it works perfectly. None of the technical problems I've seen on forums have been related to Windows 2000 specficially. I understand ES' stance on not supporting Windows 2000, although it does make me sad I can't play the demo. I do believe, however, that ES should allow the game to install on a Windows 2000 system.

[This message has been edited by Disinherited (edited 09-08-2005 @ 03:26 AM).]

Zen
Ghost
(id: Angel Zen)
posted 09-08-05 03:28 AM EDT (US)     36 / 243       
I'd like to point out that MicroSoft ended "mainstream support" for Windows 2000 as of June 2005; It is current in its "Extended Support" cycle in which general consumers aren't covered (nor are they eligible to sign up for that program)... so I'm not surprised to see new games come out that's limited to Windows XP only... just wasn't expecting it to come so soon.

-Zen


Zen
Grendall
Skirmisher
posted 09-08-05 03:54 AM EDT (US)     37 / 243       
XP is trash, actually. And if you want another purchase for AoE3, I suggest [if you're reading this] that you replace your "You can't install this." alert with a "We don't support this, do you still want to install it?" alert.

I have been really excited about this game, but not enough to lower myself to the level of using a top-heavy piece of crap operating system full of security loopholes just so I can play it.

I'd sooner install Linux and run an emulator than put up with this. And if you have anything to say about it, allow me to offer you a "kiss my ***" in advance.

Alexandergreat3
Skirmisher
posted 09-08-05 04:08 AM EDT (US)     38 / 243       
Damn, this "you cannot install on anything but XP" is bad... really bad. I really despise XP because of its vulnerability to viruses, spywares.

To you guys out there that don't use XP: I feel your pain and anger.

Ganacampo
Skirmisher
posted 09-08-05 05:28 AM EDT (US)     39 / 243       
They just want to force us to buy XP, dammed Microsoft, that's obvious.

But I don't let anybody force me, I'd rather not buy it.

Sad, that money is your god ES....

(No extra test and optimizing etc like everybody said, just let us try it, if it doesn't work then I'd understand it)

GWC_Banshee_
Skirmisher
posted 09-08-05 05:39 AM EDT (US)     40 / 243       

Quote:

It would cost us more to optimize/test/compat/etc on 2K. In the end, it was a decision that was made to streamline the workload and provide the best experience for the largest group of customers. Given the responses here, I'm sure we'll discuss our plan to not let folks install on 2K, but I'm not promising any change.

Not a single win2k user in this topic is talking about optimizing aoe3 for win2k. We just ask you to let the game decide, wether it wants to run on our system with win2k or not.
Neither of us sees a single reason why you made this installer saying: you are not allowed to run the game cause of your os.
in fact it made you more work than just write: win xp supported, win2k not.

its has been proven that it runs on win2k. the only thing that prevents us win2k users from playing the demo is you!

falcdragon
Skirmisher
posted 09-08-05 05:44 AM EDT (US)     41 / 243       
The installer shouldn't prevent the game from installing on 2K if it runs, sure ES might not want to support it on 2K fine but they should alow people to install it. And really XP is pretty much 2K with a prettier interface and slightly better set of gaming related drivers.
Ganacampo
Skirmisher
posted 09-08-05 05:47 AM EDT (US)     42 / 243       
I see a reason why they did it: Microsoft.
Masarius
Skirmisher
posted 09-08-05 05:48 AM EDT (US)     43 / 243       

Quote:

Let me rephrase what I said. Not that anyone should feel obligated to upgrade to WinXP Pro from Win2K. However, if you do intend to keep Win2K, my recommendation is to keep it on a dedicated machine and have WinXP/Pro on another. What I think is silly is when people get inflexible and feel they cannot upgrade simply because they are used to a certain setting.

Don't get me wrong I'm all for upgrading to the latest technology when I have the opportunity. I don't use 2000 because I feel itís the best operating system or because I like any particular aspect of it, I use it because I simply can't afford to upgrade. I'm a casual gamer, I play many demo's and buy only about 3 -4 games a year. I upgrade every few years to make sure I'm not falling behind in technology too much; however, my most expensive upgrade was a $250 radeon 9600 pro last year. I simply can't justify spending $800 on windows xp just to play games, as will be the case with many casual gamers I would suspect. Like someone said a few posts up, I'm not asking for optimisation for 2000 - just the ability to test it on my machine.

In the end itís no big deal, if I can't play AoE3 then I'll find something else and ES looses out on a sale. It's a shame though, I've followed this series from the very begining,and I have the hardware to play AoE3 just not the operating system they want.


Check out my blog!
www.masarius.com

[This message has been edited by Masarius (edited 09-08-2005 @ 05:53 AM).]

GWC_Banshee_
Skirmisher
posted 09-08-05 05:50 AM EDT (US)     44 / 243       

Quote:

I see a reason why they did it: Microsoft.


Possibly. This would explain, why the marketing demo runs on 2k and the other demo does not.

Dont expect us to forget this too soon, ES.

darknessoffate
Banned
posted 09-08-05 05:51 AM EDT (US)     45 / 243       

Quote:

XP is trash, actually. And if you want another purchase for AoE3, I suggest that you replace your "You can't install this." alert with a "We don't support this, do you still want to install it?" alert.

You know nothing about pcs do you? either that or your a trash talking mac/linux user who just bashes windows since you dont use it. XP is BY FAR the most stable and fastest OS I have used. I just gfot it a while ago. before that for many years i suffered through win98se crashing twice a day if you havnt upgraded in FIVE YEARS you shouldbnt whinge. im using a five year old p750 till I finay pay off my new one Im using XP with only 128mb ram non ddr and it works great.

But that doesnt mean I think this is ok Im shocked and appaled at you ES I through you cared about the fans and we respected you for it. You sold us out! Im disgusted. Your no better than intel with its constant chip format change to force new mother baords.

Grendall
Skirmisher
posted 09-08-05 06:11 AM EDT (US)     46 / 243       

Quote:

You know nothing about pcs do you? either that or your a trash talking mac/linux user who just bashes windows since you dont use it. XP is BY FAR the most stable and fastest OS I have used. I just gfot it a while ago. before that for many years i suffered through win98se crashing twice a day if you havnt upgraded in FIVE YEARS you shouldbnt whinge. im using a five year old p750 till I finay pay off my new one Im using XP with only 128mb ram non ddr and it works great.

If you upgraded straight from 98 to XP, then you obviously missed the stability and speed of Windows 2000. Actually making a good operating system was a rare fluke for Microsoft, so they decided to correct their mistake with Windows XP, taking it back to their roots of making slow top-heavy crap that spreads it legs for any exploit on the block.

And god forbid that you might actually like some older games, because that's a no-no in XP as well. [And don't give me any lip about the compatibility mode because that piece of crap works about 20% of the time.]

darknessoffate
Banned
posted 09-08-05 06:20 AM EDT (US)     47 / 243       
spreads its legs lmao! I do like alot of old games jagged alliance kknd wolf3d magic, ultima C&C 1, Tsun, Red alert and many other dos ones. All have worked fine in compatabillty mode. I havent had a simgle hack or sertiy prob, do you use a firewall and decent AV i do have a firewalled router tho. As far as i can see all you have done is called XP top heavy and crap again and again without saying any real reasons why you feel that way. the secrity is fine. I do have good browsing habits tho.

[This message has been edited by darknessoffate (edited 09-08-2005 @ 06:22 AM).]

GWC_Banshee_
Skirmisher
posted 09-08-05 06:48 AM EDT (US)     48 / 243       
There is no need of a XP vs 2K discussion. The only thing that is relevant for me is, what ES plans to do about the win2k compability and how they justify the win2k incompability, although the marketing beta runs perfectly on 2k and the other demo does it, too.
Not that ES has to justifiy anything they do, but as a customer from the start of the serie on, i would be very disappointed if they dont.
Is there any other reason than to force player to buy win xp?
Ganacampo
Skirmisher
posted 09-08-05 07:18 AM EDT (US)     49 / 243       
No.
Ykkrosh
Skirmisher
posted 09-08-05 07:56 AM EDT (US)     50 / 243       
The Valve Survey is perhaps relevant, saying that Win2000 has around 3% usage (out of some population that I don't know whether is representative of AoE3's market, but at least it's mainly players of 3D games) - so I'd agree that's it not worth spending anywhere near as much on compatibility testing and support for it as for XP; but given that the differences between 2K and XP seem negligible (and the improvements are not enough to make up for that dog, which is why I work on 2K instead), it does seem worthwhile spending a couple of hours making trivial changes so that at least it installs and runs, even if it has degraded performance and is officially unsupported. (And since we can provide evidence that the trial version does indeed run without obvious problems, it shouldn't even require that much effort, and only the installer needs fixing )

Quoted from ES_Bigdog:

Given the responses here, I'm sure we'll discuss our plan to not let folks install on 2K, but I'm not promising any change.


Thank you for at least reconsidering it
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