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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » First Age Game I won´t buy
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Topic Subject:First Age Game I won´t buy
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BrazilianRaider
Skirmisher
posted 09-10-05 00:10 AM EDT (US)         
Hi guys.
I´ve never posted anything here and i hope you won´t dismiss my opinions because of this. I´ve been a hardcore age fan since I got my first glance at AOE I and I must say I´m very disapointed at AOE III.
You all have the right to disagree here, and being this MY opinion I don´t have to be reminded that ES couldn´t care less to what one guy thinks and that I am not obligated to buy a game I don´t like. Yet, I must ask that before flaming me you read the whole post first and I thank you all who have enough patience to do it.

The main reason I say this is that ES got too excited in building wonderful environments that they forgot all about the gameplay that made the series so famous. After the first week of playing, most of us won´t notice the reflections, the detailed houses, the beatifully designed trees, we´ll be clicking on units so fast that some of us might even tone these features down. Of course this is great to atract buyers, but what´s the point if 3 months later most of them drop the game and never play it again? ES and Microsoft marketing guys should remember that graphics and innovations are great for getting a game the desired media attention, but what makes a great game is the fun it provides.
If the un-necessary graphics were toned down a little, maybe we could support larger pops, or even more detailed individual units. Let´s face it: Compared to some games out there AOE III units suck.
Another thing that bothers me is why ES still can´t make cavalry stump over guys. That was the whole point of having cavalry in an army and why cavalry was so effective. They didn´t stop in front of infantrymen and attacked them one by one, they ran over them, breaking their formation and causing havoc among the lines. I understand why this feature wasn´t in the other age games, but come on guys, if the technology nowadays lets us be more realistic than yesterday why not take advantage of this!? It´s like ES got stuck in time.
I would recommend everyone who disagrees with me to play Rome: Total War for a few hours.
Someone from ES already stated that different games have different goals and I even agree with him, but many features from Rome are innovative enough to change the face of Strategy games in the future. It doesn´t have that much detail on the environment, but the units are extremely well designed, the battles the most realistic I´ve seen in a game and I must say I haven´t been so addicted to a game since Age of Kings. The way units morale, formations and even the direction they face affect the outcome of battles is impecable!
This said, I can bet a thousand dollars that most of us played the other age games for the battles, not for building cities (except for those creative moments that all of us go through once in a while).
For those of you who, like me, are more interested in realistic historical battles, unfortunately I think it´s time to change franchises.

AuthorReplies:
THE_champion95
Skirmisher
posted 09-10-05 03:35 AM EDT (US)     26 / 38       
the reckon this demo is gonna be rubbish compared to the full game, i think its too early to judge whether the game is gonna suck or not.

supporter of Crystal Palace Football club
Leader of The VnX clan!


ESO Name: Rulezzz
Lord_Morningstar
Skirmisher
posted 09-10-05 03:36 AM EDT (US)     27 / 38       
People are claiming that cavalry fought by charging headlong into enemy infantry, bowling them over and trampling them, like they do in RTW and BFME. Im arguing that they didnt the horses wouldnt actually hit the enemy soldiers if they could help it (which was most of the time).
doitzelkaiseriii
Skirmisher
posted 09-10-05 03:40 AM EDT (US)     28 / 38       
Well... it wasn't usually their intentions to bash the enemy and trample them. Otherwise the riders wouldn't need weapons. Men did often get knocked off their feet and trampled by the horses, though. It also depends on the era and the nation that you're looking at. The Romans used cavalry very differently than Napoleon (annd his contemporaries) would have.

We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
beekay
Skirmisher
(id: black_knight_101)
posted 09-10-05 03:40 AM EDT (US)     29 / 38       

Quote:

People are claiming that cavalry fought by charging headlong into enemy infantry, bowling them over and trampling them, like they do in RTW and BFME. Im arguing that they didnt the horses wouldnt actually hit the enemy soldiers if they could help it (which was most of the time).

OH! So that's what's happening! In that case, though it makes me look the fool, I agree.


sig
Fili
Skirmisher
posted 09-10-05 03:48 AM EDT (US)     30 / 38       
I hope you agree that talking about trampling ETC is off-topic.

Anyway most of your points Raider are perfectly valid. In any case, I admit that being interested in the Graphics very much, I will buy the game.

LeGrosManchot
Skirmisher
posted 09-10-05 12:11 PM EDT (US)     31 / 38       
Now, that i read it i will have to agree with Brazillian Raider. They did spend to much time on the enviroment, and i know that you can turn the graphic settings and all that crap on low, but if they didn't have the graphics in this game, it would be just something else to complain about, and its true! But, this is what they gave us and this is what we will have to work with. When i was playing it i found it really bright, im sure we can turn that down. Of course this game isn't going to be realistic, its a video game, not real life.
Dio_the_lonely
Banned
posted 09-10-05 12:21 PM EDT (US)     32 / 38       

Quote:

You have an opinion,yes, but I'm really getting sick of when people complain about it!!!

If you are getting sick of people complaining about why did you come in this thread and read his complaint?

Sadaukar
Skirmisher
posted 09-10-05 12:28 PM EDT (US)     33 / 38       
I dont know why this turned into a debate about cavalry but i will continue it! I use cav to run round the back of the enemy and attack the cannons and other ranged weapons I wouldnt use them to attack the front line of spears! You complain about how they don't trample troops but does it really matter?
This demo is designed to be fun not for people to argue about!

P.S. First post

BrazilianRaider
Skirmisher
posted 09-10-05 01:35 PM EDT (US)     34 / 38       
Responding to the question as to when in history cavalry broke formations of tight packed infantry theres many of ALexanders battles and even Philip before him, the battle of Crscy were french cav ran over their genoviese mercenaries, Armenian Cataphract charges on Crassus legions and so on. I really expressed myself badly for my lack of vocabulary... The value of cavalry wasnt in trampilng, it was in shocking as someone mentioned. You couldnt brake a phalanx or a shield wall in the first charge, but you could do it in consecutive ones. And a good comander wouldnt just send cavalry in a front charge, he would try to go around and trample formations from the flanks. If cavalry, as some of you claim, didnt break formations, what was the point of using them and why did they became so popular? How has the use of cavalry so widespread around cultures if they fought just as mounted regular infantry? Take the middle age conrois for example... In the mid 1200s an army withou heavy cavalry simply didnt have a chance... I know this game isnt about the middle ages so Im simply trying to make a point.
That wasnt even the mai point of my post... in my humble opinion, id rather have cavalry charging units than having them stop in front of them. But as its been mentioned... thats just me. Im not trying to bash the game to anyone I just want to express myself, so maybe in the next game some of the features I mention can be considerated.
bojack
Skirmisher
posted 09-10-05 02:07 PM EDT (US)     35 / 38       
Almost forgot about the issues I had with cavalry but the more I read this thread the more I remember how irritating it is to see cavalry run up to the enemy, STOP, and engage in melee. You'd think a lancer would at least try to run his spear through a longbowman while charging at full speed instead of stopping to take a few pokes :/

Grammar and such go a long way in these forums and I would hate to see heavengames lower it's high standards. - Shala_LoL
xinyaoqiu
Skirmisher
posted 09-10-05 02:10 PM EDT (US)     36 / 38       
i just don't like the way the units looks in aoe3. they are soooo ugly
aoe2 is good. look at the paladin the knight. arbalest...
the Medieval Siege.
..............
can't compare.
aka99
Skirmisher
posted 09-10-05 02:27 PM EDT (US)     37 / 38       
I actually play this game for the cities... Its so awesome too see my massive city... Which I then quickly fill up wiht an army using my awesome economy.
lytyrstorm
Skirmisher
posted 09-10-05 02:36 PM EDT (US)     38 / 38       

Quote:

If you have a suggestion say it and ES will listen!


Ok, sure.

When I heard about the "revolutionnary combat system", of course I immediately thought that meant that combat was going to be more complexe. I was imagining this, to be exact:
- musketeers holding their formations while firing, not pouring around like an unorganised horde
- cavalry flanking, charging, and bashing up ill-prepared enemies
- pikes surrounding formations to protect from cavalry
- infantry protecting cannons
- long lines of soldiers shooting each other apart

What I got was this:

- everything running around bashing whatever's closest and scurrying around into circles around their prey

It's not a PROBLEM, per say, because all other Age games have been like that. However, it was, as far as I'm concerned, false advertising.

You know what might go a LONG way towards improving combat? Two things:

1. Range - get rid of it. All gun infantry of a formation can fire on a target within a circle around the formation. End of story.

2. Intra-formation control. If I select the pikes, musketeers, and cannons as one, then move them, I should have the pike standing ground to guard against cavalry, the gunners shooting, and the cannons blasting away at more distant target - not all three unit types attacking the same things and breaking formation.


Just those two things would greatly improve the combat system, IMO, without making things frustrating or difficult.


Looking forward to AoE3 - big population cap > AoM
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