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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » Rodeleros
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Topic Subject:Rodeleros
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Swiffle
Skirmisher
posted 10-20-05 10:58 PM EDT (US)         
These seem to be a pretty weak unit to me :/
Here's stats for a quick rundown(thx elpea for unit stats page).
65 food/35 gold
130 HP
Speed 6
Melee attack 11, 3x vs cav
40% hand resistance

Let's compare this to a musketeer, and hussar.
Musketeer
75 food/25 gold
150 HP
Speed 4
Melee attack 13, 3x vs cav
Ranged attack 23 @ range 12, 3s cooldown
20% hand resistance

Keep in mind melee attacks at 1.5s cooldown.

For approximately the same cost(cheaper if you consider that food gathers quicker than gold), you get a unit with 20 more HP, a better melee attack, same bonus vs cavalry, and a solid ranged attack. With the only upside on the rodelero being the hand resistance, which is countered by lower HP, and the higher speed. Melee units still have pathing issues and get blocked on each trying to chase units down, even when they reach a target
I'll make one more point, rodeleros (and all melee units) have access to "Cover" formation which halves ranged damage. This would be very good, but it also halves speed, and the units own attack. Thus, even with the extra ranged defense, they'll be able to stay in a fight longer, but won't be able to inflict any realy damage.

Hussar
120 Food 80 Gold
290 HP
6.75 Speed
Melee attack 30
10% Ranged resistance

This is appromately twice the cost of the rodelero, for a unit that has more than 2x the HP, resistance to ranged, near 3x melee attack, and faster. Only downside is larger collision size, which again it tough for them to engage targets in melee. Since Hussars are cavalry, they'll lose to (in tier 2) only musketeers, pikemen, and rodeleros. Everything else in tier 2 beats pikemen, and rodeleros < musketeers and rodeleros = rodeleros.

Not saying Rodeleros are useless, but I'm having trouble finding a use for them. You'd think they'd beat infantry if they can get in range, but they don't. Even wimpy crossbowmen, can stand up to them, simply due to the fact while the front row would switch to the pitiful hand attack, the xbows further back would still be engaging with the ranged attack which does significant damage.


Playing: Poker. Yay.
Retired: Age of Empires 3, Warcraft 3, Guild Wars, Dark Age of Camelot, Age of Empires 2.
AuthorReplies:
Musket Man
Skirmisher
posted 10-20-05 11:05 PM EDT (US)     1 / 50       
Yes Rodeleros have also been useless for me in the game. I play as the Spanish but I mostly just use musketeers and pikemen for infantry. The Rodeleros are fast though but so are Hussars.

Musket Man: Inefficiently fighting crime with a musket since 1565!

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bigRed
Skirmisher
posted 10-21-05 00:15 AM EDT (US)     2 / 50       
I agree with you 100%, and same thing goes for pikemen and crossbows. All useless units if you have muskets.

One thing that rods ARE good at though, is tying up cav due to their high speed (6 vs cav 6.75). I don't see how an iron clad warrior with a shield and a sword has fewer hitpoints and melee attack than a musketeer in a jacket using a bayonet.

Swiffle
Skirmisher
posted 10-21-05 00:25 AM EDT (US)     3 / 50       
Crossbows aren't useless. I think they are even or maybe very slightly worse than musketeers. They do have higher range, and Mokon managed to beat me with them, but it was more because my economy sucked so bad

Playing: Poker. Yay.
Retired: Age of Empires 3, Warcraft 3, Guild Wars, Dark Age of Camelot, Age of Empires 2.
Mokon
Skirmisher
posted 10-21-05 00:31 AM EDT (US)     4 / 50       
Well guys everything has its use.... Rolderlos are great raiders, and great at forcing things to melle since they have the great speed. Every unit has a purpose

and swiffle the thing is crossbowmen have agood economic cost factor, which makes em easy to mass and such


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  • tster123
    Skirmisher
    posted 10-21-05 01:56 AM EDT (US)     5 / 50       
    pikemen are 20 food/60 wood which means to mass them you can still be cranking out tons of villies. I use crossbowmen a ton and they serve me well against the musket massers.
    Ultramique
    Skirmisher
    posted 10-21-05 02:00 AM EDT (US)     6 / 50       
    Ya, xbows stick in the craw of anyone who uses muskets early. Though since most people are idiots they'll let you kite them around until you can conjure up some advantage and kill them.
    Swiffle
    Skirmisher
    posted 10-21-05 02:16 AM EDT (US)     7 / 50       
    crossbows aren't easier to make than muskets. They do in fact cost more. Wood gathers much much slower than food.

    Playing: Poker. Yay.
    Retired: Age of Empires 3, Warcraft 3, Guild Wars, Dark Age of Camelot, Age of Empires 2.
    Ceres629
    Skirmisher
    posted 10-21-05 04:09 AM EDT (US)     8 / 50       
    Rodaleros are completelyuseless fullstop. I don't see their point, until they get a big HP boost in a patch, just ignore them. You are better of just using musketeers and pikemen in age 2. And in later ages, just mass lancers. No need to build a single Rodalero, I'm a diehard spanish user (still have demo) but i played almost 300 demo games against expert AI, and not once have a found the rodaleros useful against the AI so I highly doubt they would be any good online,

    Looking at the stats there is no way ES can not buff this.

    The Bob
    Skirmisher
    posted 10-21-05 05:46 AM EDT (US)     9 / 50       
    I find rodaleros pretty good; stat wise they aren't great but their speed means they can rush enemy ranged units like musketeers into melee and enable skirmishers or other ranged guys to do their jobs properly.

    They're more of a supplementary unit since they help other units quite a lot more than other units help them.

    Luckyass
    Skirmisher
    posted 10-21-05 05:49 AM EDT (US)     10 / 50       
    im not a big fan of the rodeleros either, but i always have 10 or somthing in my army.

    Especially while im attacking and longbowmen are shooting at my main army, i will just send 10 rodeleros, that will keep the longbowmen busy while im attacking the base with main army.

    I also use rodeleros for quick raiding. But not so often.

    But actually i cant say anything becoz im just a demo user...

    Ceres629
    Skirmisher
    posted 10-21-05 06:27 AM EDT (US)     11 / 50       
    Even if they rush musketeers in melee they still lose. They need a huge boost to their melee attack an then reduce their damage multipler against cav from 3 to 2 to compensate.

    I mean just look at the stats compared to musketeers: lower hand attack, lower hp, higher gold cost. the hand resistance dmg just balances out the lower hp so thats nothing special.

    speed means very little if the unit still sucks, which it does.

    Then you realise musketeers have a ranged attack as well! A Rodalero is just like a muskeeter without the musket... yet costs more. As soon as spanish players realise this, spains win % will increase.

    schildpad
    Skirmisher
    posted 10-21-05 06:34 AM EDT (US)     12 / 50       
    use them against skirms and crossbows

    "such a kind fellow!" ~ ķįŋğ_Ćħŗĩ_ĬĬ

    Furby killer should be crowned leader of AOE forum ~ [SW_GD]Teutonic

    Ceres629
    Skirmisher
    posted 10-21-05 06:37 AM EDT (US)     13 / 50       

    Quote:

    use them against skirms and crossbows


    I sure hope was sarcasm, because those are the absolute worst units to use Rodeleros against... if its not sarcasm...then

    Bad point, Schildpad.

    stooper88
    Skirmisher
    posted 10-21-05 09:58 AM EDT (US)     14 / 50       
    I agree that Rodelero stats aren't anything to boast about, b ut they seem to make pretty decent meat shields. I crank out a handful just to blunt any cav rush against my ranged units or cannons. Since Rodelero have high speed, I can redirect them quickly to intercept any cav flanking maneuvers. Also, they have a 3x melee against cav. This allows xbows, muskets, skirms, cannons, etc to continue focus fire ranged attacks while the rodeleros soak cav damage and add a little bite-back of their own.
    dstickst
    Skirmisher
    posted 10-21-05 10:20 AM EDT (US)     15 / 50       
    Well, speaking practically (after a couple of MP games on ESO), I get a sick feeling in the bottom of my stomach whenever I see a horde of Rodeleros running towards my expensive cavalry. They are quite effective in that regard.

    That being said, I played with the Dutch and completely owned them with Halberdiers.

    Rodeleros have their uses.


    Suckin' at Age' since AOE.
    Ceres629
    Skirmisher
    posted 10-21-05 12:58 PM EDT (US)     16 / 50       

    Quote:

    Rodeleros have their uses.

    The point is there are other units that are cheaper and have the same uses and more.

    So whats the point of building Rodeleros unless you just like to see men in shiny armor?

    schildpad
    Skirmisher
    posted 10-21-05 01:11 PM EDT (US)     17 / 50       
    i was serious ceres, if you let them run to skirms, many will die, but then your skirms go into melee, and combi of crossbows and rodeleros can own them.

    and their point is they are fast without the need to build stable


    "such a kind fellow!" ~ ķįŋğ_Ćħŗĩ_ĬĬ

    Furby killer should be crowned leader of AOE forum ~ [SW_GD]Teutonic

    Errand
    Skirmisher
    posted 10-21-05 02:04 PM EDT (US)     18 / 50       
    Fast+Cheap+Melee=GOOD. Especially for raiding. Plus towers don't do bonus damage to them. I wouldn't complain if they did more damage, of course, but I still like using them.

    BTW, their speed goes up to 7.5 sometimes. WTF?! That beats any cavalry. And these guys got a ton of armor too....some things in this game just don't make sense.


    If it's coming right at you, duck.
    Luckyass
    Skirmisher
    posted 10-21-05 02:20 PM EDT (US)     19 / 50       
    and they can own cannons easier, than other infantry

    [This message has been edited by Luckyass (edited 10-21-2005 @ 02:22 PM).]

    Ceres629
    Skirmisher
    posted 10-21-05 02:41 PM EDT (US)     20 / 50       

    Quote:

    BTW, their speed goes up to 7.5 sometimes. WTF?! That beats any cavalry. And these guys got a ton of armor too....some things in this game just don't make sense.

    The speed change only occurs when units are getting into formation, those that lag behind speed up to catch up with the rest, it happens with all units, cavalry too. They are still slower than cav so it doesn't change the fact that cav can still escape them...

    Quote:

    i was serious ceres, if you let them run to skirms, many will die, but then your skirms go into melee, and combi of crossbows and rodeleros can own them.

    and their point is they are fast without the need to build stable

    A combi of crossbows and rodeleros may do well against skirms but if your enemy is in age 3 with skirms, then you should be in age 3 as well with at least a fort. In which case lancers or hussars are a far better choice.

    I can't understand how people can defend the rodalero, it costs more than a musketeer, does less damage than a musketeer (to both cav and non cav units), it has lower HP than a musketeer.And! IT HAS NO RANGED ATTACK!..

    What does it have in its favour?
    20% more hand resistance an it moves 50% faster.

    Muskeeters not only match rodaleros in most cases, they are far more versatile than them.

    The fact that so many people still think the Rodalero is a good unit explains why Spainish has the lowest win percentage online.

    [This message has been edited by Ceres629 (edited 10-21-2005 @ 02:50 PM).]

    Luckyass
    Skirmisher
    posted 10-21-05 03:00 PM EDT (US)     21 / 50       
    its cheaper than any horse unit
    it faster than any infantry unit
    wich makes it worth for some raiding

    but no, its not really a good unit for your main army

    TheGoodEvil
    Skirmisher
    posted 10-21-05 03:18 PM EDT (US)     22 / 50       
    I don't know what you guys are smoking take the rodeleros and charge them at musketeers 4tw... at most the muskets will get 1-2 shots off maybe killing 2-3 rodes, then it's all about the micro and the rodes pwning muskets... where spain loses is in low levels where you can get a ton of shipments but have nothing good enough to use the shipments on... besides that spain is pretty decent. at level 12-25 and higher they are one of the best civs to have. until then though you will struggle to boom and fight well.

    TGE


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    Ceres629
    Skirmisher
    posted 10-21-05 04:42 PM EDT (US)     23 / 50       

    Quote:

    I don't know what you guys are smoking take the rodeleros and charge them at musketeers 4tw... at most the muskets will get 1-2 shots off maybe killing 2-3 rodes, then it's all about the micro and the rodes pwning muskets...

    How exactly do units that do less damage and have about the same HP (taking into effect the rodaleros higher melee resistance but lower HP) pwn muskets? Its at best an even battle...

    Am I really missing something here? Sure speed is important in melee and they are faster than muskies, but from personal experience Musketeers in melee mode don't do much worse than rodaleros in melee mode (if at all).

    Muskies have a higher melee attack and more HP. You guys with the full version can test this, but I'm sure if you took 30 muskies vs 30 rodaleros and put them all in melee mode from the beginning and make them attack, the rodaleros may win, but not by a huge margin, it would most likely be a close battle. This is not good enough for a unit that is supossed to be pure melee, to be fighting equally in hand to hand combat with a unit that is supposed to be mainly ranged. Put the muskies in ranged mode and i'm sure muskies win.

    Rodaleros are garbage and ES will definately have to buff them otherwise they will soon go completely unused. At least Spain have kick ass lancers, if they didn't they would be no readon to choose them at all.

    [This message has been edited by Ceres629 (edited 10-21-2005 @ 06:08 PM).]

    Bossman
    Skirmisher
    posted 10-21-05 04:55 PM EDT (US)     24 / 50       
    They really need better melee attack and more hp. Afterall in reallife they were masters of 1on1 combat so it's kind of silly that a musketeer that uses bayonet has better melee damage. I really would like to see some ES dev with a musket wins a duel to the death against highly trained fencer that uses sword & buckler.
    Raging_Death
    Skirmisher
    posted 10-21-05 08:29 PM EDT (US)     25 / 50       
    According to this:

    Musketeer HP / (Rodelero attack x (100% - Musketeer hand resist) ) = # of swings for a Rodelero to kill a Musketeer

    150 / (11 x .8) = 17.045 (Rounded up to 18 full swings to kill a Musketeer)

    Rodelero HP / (Musketeer melee attack x (100% - Rodelero hand resist) ) = # of swings for a Musketeer to kill a Rodelero

    130 / (13 x .6) = 16.666 (Rounded up to 17 full swings to kill a Rodelero)

    Even in a full out melee rumble (supposedly the Rodelero's specialty) where the Musketeers don't get a volley off, the Musketeers will still (just barely) be able to defeat the Rodeleros.

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