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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » Save me from the french
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Topic Subject:Save me from the french
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Doggiedoodle
Skirmisher
posted 12-09-05 01:00 AM EDT (US)         
Normally I play portugal, but I decided I wanted to actually be able to play a bit more competitively and started playing france. I now have a distinct problem. I don't want to go back to portugal(even though the bonus is more in line with the way i would like to play) because the french economy is so much superior. The french have settlers that take 16% longer to build but gather 25% faster. For every 25 coureurs made a normal civ gets 29 villagers, but in the time those 29 gather 100 food the 25 coureurs gather 107.76 food. That's like giving your opponent a 7.5% handicap and when you factor in the villager shipments and 7 starting coureurs its even more for the early game. Add the best selection of military units in the game coupled with practical unraidability and you have a civ that is blatantly OP.

So please, convince me to stop playing these guys, otherwise I'm going to be in real trouble when they get their well deserved nerf.

EDIT:
I understand the tone is a bit silly, however, that does not change the numbers.

[This message has been edited by Doggiedoodle (edited 12-09-2005 @ 01:01 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
lemuri
Skirmisher
posted 12-09-05 08:29 PM EDT (US)     26 / 37       
Stop playing the French - once they get nerfed (or the other civs get boosts) you will have made a bad long-term investment

"War does not determine who is right, only who is left" -- B Russell
BloTo
Skirmisher
posted 12-09-05 08:31 PM EDT (US)     27 / 37       
@ little wing. go try it. i just did. they dont. end statement.

Eso: scuzz
Cancer of the Head
Skirmisher
(id: say1988)
posted 12-09-05 08:33 PM EDT (US)     28 / 37       
Off topic: French fries are Belgian

On topic: if you are worried about the being nerfed and you won't be as good as French, just switch then.

Little_Wing
Skirmisher
posted 12-09-05 09:28 PM EDT (US)     29 / 37       
@ Bloto: I tried it. 20 French Cuirassiers with breastplate and the French cavalry card vs 16 plain German ww's. 9 ww's left. I tried both sides, same result. I'll trade 7 ww's for 20 cuirs anyday.

Little_Wing


Oh as I was young and easy in the mercy of his means,
Time held me green and dying
Though I sang in my chains like the sea.
BloTo
Skirmisher
posted 12-09-05 09:37 PM EDT (US)     30 / 37       
^well than thats ONE unit that counters cuirs (when they are by them self)... bravo.

what about the votiguers and cannons? what are WW going to do about them

the type of player who pits 20 cuirs against 17 WW's shouldnt have lasted to fortress anyway...

WW's cost the same as cuirs and yet they are ONLY good against cav. cuirs own everything EXCEPT WW's. go figure.


Eso: scuzz

[This message has been edited by BloTo (edited 12-09-2005 @ 09:38 PM).]

wind_highlander
Skirmisher
posted 12-09-05 10:06 PM EDT (US)     31 / 37       

Well, if you fight putting your army against the other guy's army like I've seen mostly happen,ie, front to front, well yes, *maybe* WW take Cuirassiers down somewhat. But if you're like me, who divides his army in pieces and attacks from all sides, then no way.

I'll have whatever it takes to counter his infantery, cannon meat and stuff, to keep my enemy occupied and then look at his army. I'll use my cavalry against his cannons, WW's and ranged units, comming from the SIDE and BEHIND, mostly in secuence, not all at the same time. The enemy does not know what I've got when I arrive at the battlefield, cause I'm not showing everything right away.

If you attack from the side you can easily put hussarls in the mix too and save some resources. If attacked from all sides the enemy looses track of his initial strategy and therefore his initiative. If WW must attack to all sides they become vulnerable. They are much slower and heavier than your cavalry.

That's how you slaughter them.


Little_Wing
Skirmisher
posted 12-09-05 10:21 PM EDT (US)     32 / 37       
Sure, all of those things work, but if you can split forces, use mixed armies and micro, so can the other guy. The strength of ww's is that they cost less pop and res to fight cuirs, and they do it from range, making micro easier, and enabling them to cover other units.

And watch out about attacking in sequence, it can also give an enemy time to defeat you piece by piece if your attack is not well coordinated. The strength of ww's is that they are ranged. You spend less pop and res than the cuirassiers, leaving you with more for the rest of your force.

Little_Wing


Oh as I was young and easy in the mercy of his means,
Time held me green and dying
Though I sang in my chains like the sea.
Angel Walker
Skirmisher
(id: Just a player)
posted 12-09-05 10:24 PM EDT (US)     33 / 37       
First, French are very good and very easy to play, but they are not OP.

Second, if u know how to use, Portugal have a superior economy, because in the colonial they have 2 TC and in the fortress 3, so u can booming setlers 3 times faster than a french one.

and Third, there are lots of units that can counter cuiriassier: War wagons, horse archers (they have melee armor and are much cheaper), dragoons (2/3 of the pop and around 60% of the price), halberdiers (heavy melee unit and just 1 pop), Dopplesoldners (those guys eat cuirassiers in breakfast)and even pikes (tercios are better cause they have royal upgrades, but a large army of veteran pikes can take down lots of cuirassier)

But anyway, an army of gendarmes and voultigeurs is really OP xD

Devon_
Skirmisher
(id: Lord Devon)
posted 12-09-05 10:41 PM EDT (US)     34 / 37       
I'm a french player with a Lv 38 city and an 86% win rate.

A lot of this thread is nonesense. France IS rushable and that is frances biggest weakness. France cannot stop a strelet rush, or an ottoman rush. I've only ever lost to rushers.


"I have curly pubic hair. If I don't gel it down, it puffs up into a miniature afro and looks rediculous." -Kman
Mokon
Skirmisher
posted 12-09-05 10:41 PM EDT (US)     35 / 37       

Quote:

but they are not OP.

Yes they r.... Should ppl be complaining about it? No, not unless ur a top player... but that fact is they r op

Mokon | | | AoE3 Rate 2200~ | | |
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  • Doggiedoodle
    Skirmisher
    posted 12-10-05 00:28 AM EDT (US)     36 / 37       
    If only top players complain, it will not be percieved as a problem.

    Quote:

    A lot of this thread is nonesense. France IS rushable and that is frances biggest weakness. France cannot stop a strelet rush, or an ottoman rush. I've only ever lost to rushers.


    That's because if you don't rush france you let them get away with their 7.5% free handicap. A strelet rush isn't what to use though lmao. First of all its too easy for the french to go cav against the strelets and switch over to musketeers once the russians start making muskets(at which point the french musketeers win). Secondly, coureurs get 40% ranged resistance so you need a LOT of strelets to kill them. As for ottoman rushes, the french economy is already superior, once you throw in early skirms, the only things you need to worry about are abus guns which are also OP and even those are only an issue of getting your hussars to actually engage them in melee.

    Quote:

    Second, if u know how to use, Portugal have a superior economy, because in the colonial they have 2 TC and in the fortress 3, so u can booming setlers 3 times faster than a french one.


    Ok lets take a look at that. Portugal on a fast age up can go up in around 4 minutes minimum. About a minute later you have your second TC. This means for the first 5 minutes france has the 7.5% handicap. Now that means france will easily have a superior rush if they want. Of course rushing can be dealt with rather easily at higher levels so lets look at the boom. Now at 5 minutes you have potentially 2x the economy but also 2x the costs and it has been five minutes with the french player having that 7.5% handicap, this means the french now have a several hundred resource advantage without sending any cards, that's like giving them at least one free resource shipment. That is enough of an edge to keep them ahead long enough to reach fortress which the french can reach sooner because they aren't paying 2x to keep an efficient econ and then you're soon in the same situation as you were in the discovery age, with a 7.5% handicap for the french, which equals more and more of an advantage until the game progresses to settler caps. This isnt even considering that the portuguese are going to be more susceptible to raiding than the french which will push the economic advantage even further in frances favor. Knowing how to use portugal has nothing to do with it if they know how to use france.
    wind_highlander
    Skirmisher
    posted 12-10-05 00:58 AM EDT (US)     37 / 37       

    Little_Wing :

    I don't wait for WW to arrive at the battlefield. I attack them while they are comming. I can or cannot succeed, but I'll certainly own some of them. That will buy me time. Same applies to cannons. I'm not waiting for my enemy to come and hit me. I'll hit first if I can and not only/always with my full army.

    You don't need to have the strongest economy to win the game!!! My argument here is, and that HAS TO BE A POINT, that counting stats all the time is by no means a warrant that you'll win the game. Proficiency is extremely important. I see people crunch numbers all the time, count seconds to this and that age... I think that can or cannot help you, but I'm certainly not counting the exact number of WW against my Courassiers or whatever, I'm doing my best to put them in an arkward position first and kill them afterwards. Where you stand and what you do is crucial. As I said, no WW can attack to the rear. Period.

    I'll put it another way: you don't win by what you are, but by how you are PERCIEVED by your opponent.

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