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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » Anybody else getting scammed by fake "no rush" games??
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Topic Subject:Anybody else getting scammed by fake "no rush" games??
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Roly_the_Insane
Skirmisher
posted 02-18-06 08:34 AM EDT (US)         
Ok that's it!! Rant mode on!

I have resigned the last 5 games I have played on ESO because of this GROWING problem. It wastes my time, and I get treated to another round of childish and vulgar insults as the scam becomes revealed.

I am soooo sick of people listing a "no rush" game and then rushing at 5 minutes because they know you're strategising for a no rush game. It's a juvenile tactic that makes them feel better because they can get you to resign in disgust and then improve their win/loss ratio.

If you want to have a free rush game, fine. If you want to have a no rush game, fine. Whether or not either is better is not the issue so dont respond with the usual moronic posts about how "no rush is for losers" or whatever.

There have been controls in multiplayer games for 5 years now that prevent people from rushing in a no rush game. What happened to the developers of AOE 3 that they missed this?
Until the time limit set by game host expires, you have no ability to attack. The programming is DEAD SIMPLE.

This is a GLARING fault in an otherwise wonderful game.

AuthorReplies:
somme
Skirmisher
posted 02-18-06 08:44 AM EDT (US)     1 / 32       
This game is not designed to be a no rush game. It is not very balanced as a no rush game and if you play no rush games you take that risk.

ESO : Pcfreak8
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is." -Jan L. A. van de Snepscheu
A pessimist is usually right and never disappointed.
Any history buff knows that nothing stops a cannon like a good uppercut. - BeatnikJoe
Lawfire
Skirmisher
posted 02-18-06 08:48 AM EDT (US)     2 / 32       
I'm getting tired of the fact that well over half the games listed are "no rush for ___ minutes." It seems it is getting harder and harder to find a normal game.

I can't understand why that many people enjoy those types of games. One was no rush for 1 hour! For crying out loud...an hour...what the hell do you do for a whole hour?


Step inside this nightmare where I live, The madman roams inside my head.---Black Label Society
Roly_the_Insane
Skirmisher
posted 02-18-06 08:49 AM EDT (US)     3 / 32       
No I take the risk ONLY if people are LYING.
Regardless of your impression of balance or unbalanced games,
if someone lists a NO RUSH game and then rushes at 8 minutes, they are simply cheating to improve their win/loss ratio. No way around it, it's cheating.

And how is a no rush game unbalanced anyway???? If everyone agrees to no rush, then only a cheater rushes. Plain and simple, and no attempt at justification will change that.

If you want to play rush, then play rush. If you want to play no rush, then fine. If you're having trouble finding rush games, then perhaps it's because people like no rush games. If you don't then don't play them. If you can't find a rushing game on ESO, you're browser is broken, period.

[This message has been edited by Roly_the_Insane (edited 02-18-2006 @ 08:51 AM).]

Mark_Aurel
Skirmisher
posted 02-18-06 08:56 AM EDT (US)     4 / 32       
That's not the game's fault. There is no option not to rush in the game itself. By the game, rushing is always an option. That's the rules.

Players relying on making an agreement with each other for 'not rushing' are relying on the goodwill of their enemy. And that's not the game's fault for players trying to play it in a different way than the game is designed to be played. You can only blame the players for breaking the agreed-upon rules.

The game simply isn't meant to be played without rushing; several of the civs is balanced with that in mind. Furthermore, the programming isn't necessarily that 'simple,' either, since simply disabling players' ability to attack opens up many other venues of abuse. You'd find gold mines and other resources walled in and/or stolen, trading posts stolen, forward buildings happening, enemy troops patrolling through your town before you're 'ready,' positioning themselves for a devastating first strike, and so forth.


<Witty signature goes here.>
Roly_the_Insane
Skirmisher
posted 02-18-06 09:11 AM EDT (US)     5 / 32       
You are exactly correct, I blame the players for breaking the agreed-upon rules, no question. Whether or not the game is designed to be rush or no rush is not the issue at all. The issue is why isn't there a simple timer routine that disables the ability to train military units, OR the ability to move them, SHOULD the players want it. The idea that it might cause balance problems is ludicrous! As it stands now, the civilisations are hopelessly unbalanced anyway, so this might even correct problems, no?

Stronghold Crusader had a perfect little timer system that the host could set to his/her discretion. Until the timer expired, you could not implement any military units. I simply suggest that this type of control could improve the game for players like myself that prefer a longer game with more developed opponents. How hard would it be to designate a virtual holding area for combat units until the timer expired? Not hard at all, it's been done before by much smaller developers with great success.

His Majesty
Skirmisher
posted 02-18-06 09:14 AM EDT (US)     6 / 32       
The other day I started a 2v2 game titled "Noobs Only". One guy joins. He has a 75+ win percentage, 100s of games, and is French. I am at 13%, about 20 games, and Russian. We wait for about 10 min, and nobody joins. So he says lets go 1 on 1. I say sure, but the game won't be enjoyable since we are not well matched. So he says, don't look at my city level or win percentage. This is not my account, I am using my boyfriend's account. I have just played a couple of games, and am a noob.

Ok, so I feel a little relaxed, and click on Ready. Game begins. It's NOT a no rush game, so my plan was to expect a rush, get some muskies and lbows up. Two minutes into the game, she messages me "No rush 30 min, ok". Oh well, fine. So I change plans. I boom away with no military. I will start building forces at around 25 min, so I am ready by the 30 min mark.

What does she (?) do? 6 min into the game my base is invaded with tens of horses. It was so disgusting I simply resigned. Amazing how far people will go to increase their win percentages.

But I agree, it is not the fault of the game itself - it's just that some people need to get a life and stop worrying about win percentages.

fhertlein
Skirmisher
posted 02-18-06 09:18 AM EDT (US)     7 / 32       
While being annoying and dishonest, perhaps the term scammed is a little much, considering this is just a game.

"The devil and the priest can't exist if one goes away, its just like the battle of the sun and moon, night and day. The force of the devil is what we are told to fear. Watch out for religion when he gets too near."
"Living in a world of fantasy, I can hide behind what's real."
"Behind a smile, there's danger and a promise to be told, you'll never get old. Life's fantasy, to be locked away and still to think you're free! So live for today, tomorrow never comes. Die young."
somme
Skirmisher
posted 02-18-06 09:24 AM EDT (US)     8 / 32       
The solution is simple. Everytime you play with one of these people add them to your pests list. You will soon build up a large database of troubled gamers seeking to cheat at the predetermined rules of the game.

However I play every game like a normal game and even in no rush games I prepare for a rush


ESO : Pcfreak8
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is." -Jan L. A. van de Snepscheu
A pessimist is usually right and never disappointed.
Any history buff knows that nothing stops a cannon like a good uppercut. - BeatnikJoe
Van_Halen
Skirmisher
posted 02-18-06 09:25 AM EDT (US)     9 / 32       
quote from roly: "rushes at 8 minutes"

Lol

Why do you play no rush gams anyway? If thats how you want to play play the comp on sandbox. It just wasn't meant to be played this way. That's why you get military in age 2.

[This message has been edited by Van_Halen (edited 02-18-2006 @ 09:26 AM).]

Roly_the_Insane
Skirmisher
posted 02-18-06 09:38 AM EDT (US)     10 / 32       
Well I guess that's the answer then. I buy a different game because the players of and developers of AOE 3 don't seem to want longer games and/or deeper strategies. Ok, that's easy.
Thanks for all the replies/advice.
Jackboyh
Skirmisher
posted 02-18-06 09:43 AM EDT (US)     11 / 32       
Rise of nations did the 'no rush' tactic the best, what with national borders, attrition damage - no rush till X age.
Natus
Skirmisher
posted 02-18-06 09:58 AM EDT (US)     12 / 32       
"No rush" games should be banned. People may play AoE3 how they like, but the prevalence of "no rush" games in a game all about rushing means that there are a lot of pussies playing this game. From the time of AoK, I have never understood the whiners who played Black Forest or "No attack 'till Imperial." That's like playing Hearts where the Hearts and the Queen of Spades don't count. What's the point???

Grow up. Play the gamne as it was designed to be played. I would be more than happy if all the whiners, kids, young punks, and teenage sociopaths left in a huff and found another game elsewhere. This is ridiculous. The "glaring fault" is you.

nidhog_slayer
Skirmisher
posted 02-18-06 10:57 AM EDT (US)     13 / 32       
Well... those peoples who are playing thpose no rush games, just for rushing, are doing 1 of following: training to rush 100% boom , want to feel themself that they are wtfpwnage, or just trying to be assholes.

well, i am not "no rusher" myself, and anyone who used to play bit scenarios at aom probably knows zelda maps.

they are like perfect boom base maps, where you have lake whit over 100 fish loads of wood and about 20 old mine at your place, and only entrance to your base is small hole between cliffs. Ok its very easy to boom while maintaining army production, you can rush whit about 60 man at 6 minute, when ceasefire ends, whit set vision and shifting sands to enemy base.

Well i tend to play that all the time at aom, was pretty good at it, but when i tried supremacy again. WOAH! i sucked, i couldnīt even beat hard computer, played like 1500 noob.

When some playhard no rushers return to supremacy, and meets, lets say 18 pikerush at 5.30, they have maybe bit more economy, but they wont even remember how to handle pikemans, because they are used to 1 army fights, where you use just full upgraded army to take on enemy army, and if you lose its GG so pikemans will just rip the enemy base down.

IMO 50% of no rushers play no rush, because they are not able to take on even smallest rush, i once tried it (20 mins) i took my enemy both armies,and destroyed whole enemy, meanwhile my ally had just about army u should have at 9-10 mins and small turtle base.

But when peoples stop playing their fancy no rush games, they will notice their 1900 rating will fall down to 1500, if they canīt catch up real players skills fast enough.


My message to all no rushers are: Start play real games, before its too late, what happend to me whit aom was that i didnīt go back to supremacy, i just keepped playing scenarios, especially zelda maps. My skills got ruined, and i couldnt really play good supremacy games before aoe3 came out. Now im skilled supremacy player, not as good as i would be if i wouldnt have played zeldas, Please start play supremacy after 1.05 evens civilisations out, it might be your only change before you are too slow on skils

Wow this became long post, and im not angry to you at all if you didnīt read my post.

Chubbs4U
Skirmisher
posted 02-18-06 12:27 PM EDT (US)     14 / 32       
well if you are playing these games, it could be easy to tell they are going to rush...Look at the scores, if all of a sudden his score is almost double yours around 8 or 9 min, then your probably going to get rushed...If you want no rush games you need to be ready to change your game and also be able to pull it off...If a guy rushes you in a no rush game, hes probably going to ruin his economy when he rushes thinking after the rush your done....When you see his score starts to climb, make an army to defend or even some towers....Nothing surprises a guy more than playing a no rush game and he hits you with an army and you army just wipes him out...At that point you finish off what he started and end the game with a rush of your own...He breaks the rules, youcleanup his mess and get the win...
Zeusmeister
Skirmisher
posted 02-18-06 12:29 PM EDT (US)     15 / 32       
Maybe some custom maps could be made with invincible walls running down the center. The walls would only dissapear after the time limit. Problem solved.

Ask somebody who knows how to make one.


Quote from WH_demoneyekyo: "I would say u need more thinking playing "Go" then u would playing chess."
OpenAmp
Banned
posted 02-18-06 12:43 PM EDT (US)     16 / 32       
@zeus: no xp for custom maps.

i don't see why some of you can't understand no rush games. instead of pathetic ad hominems, how bout you think for a second? why can't players play them if they want to? go play quicksearch, pansies.

as for me, i always get nailed in xp games. grrr.

SilentScreams
Skirmisher
posted 02-18-06 01:30 PM EDT (US)     17 / 32       
I had the opposite problem... I label my games: 2v2 join now, nothing about no rush or whatever noob restrictions, and I've had three ppl saying: "This was no rush!" after I raided them hard. Which is bullshit, cause I'd never host a game with those settings, but you can't exactly prove that to those lamers. So that amounts to a lot of frustration.

All Hail Giant Squid World Domination
aka99
Skirmisher
posted 02-18-06 01:39 PM EDT (US)     18 / 32       
Its funny how... jus after i read this.. i played a 25min no rush game. And the guy attacks me at 15 minutes with abuse guns.. LOL. I say wtf and he pulls back. Then at 20 he attacks again, destroying all my tp and advancing on city. I just got pissed off and attacked him with my skirms... and ryters. He just got scared and resigned...

Also I say the funniest thing ever. A 40 minute no rush on Fort Wars map. Like.. wow... u can max pop in 5 minutes in that map.

Roly_the_Insane
Skirmisher
posted 02-18-06 02:18 PM EDT (US)     19 / 32       
WTF???? Do some people have reading problems?? Again, refer to the VERY FIRST POST before you go attacking me.

I'll dumb it waay down for you.....

If you like playing "no rush", then say you have a "no rush" game, and play "no rush".

If you like a rush game, then play a rush game.

How is that so hard to understand for some people? Just don't be a weasel and lie about it to boost your stats. AS I SAID PREVIOUSLY, it's not the game's fault, of course not, but it's not too hard to make the game "ready" for no rush matches.

FFS, I've never met so many people quick to not read a post properly and then start in with the childish attacks.
Is a quick rush really the extent of the strategy involved In this game? Refer to the tables to see what the quickest way is to produce the uber early game unit? Fine. Whatever. It's got nothing to do with this thread so please learn to read or step out of the thread.

[This message has been edited by Roly_the_Insane (edited 02-18-2006 @ 02:19 PM).]

diesel_123
Skirmisher
posted 02-18-06 02:19 PM EDT (US)     20 / 32       
@ those complaining about no rush games..don't join them! There's nobody saying you have to. If no normal games are open, host a game yourself.

My favorite tactic if my ally attacks early during a no rush game is to wall my ally in. The game is over at that point, so might as well make it funny.

MAIN POINT: We need a peer rating system. The personal "pest" list is inadaquete. I *don't* want to have to play with or against every idiotic noobie in order to find out who they are in order to block them. I'd like to enter a game lobby, see if these are people I want to play with, and make a decision to stay or go.

I'm talking about the rating system you'll find on e-bay or half.com where you can give the person a rating of 1-5 and leave comments. Being able to rate a person on how good of a player (not skill, but just a good person to play with or against) and write comments (e.g. Major noobie...rushed during a no-rush game, or Fun to play against) could be somewhat abused (fake ratings by idiots, etc.), but overall I think it would work.

I'd be MUCH more interested in these kinds of stats than XP and win percent.

[This message has been edited by diesel_123 (edited 02-18-2006 @ 02:25 PM).]

Taufiq Khan
Skirmisher
(id: Shala_T)
posted 02-18-06 02:21 PM EDT (US)     21 / 32       

Quote:

I'm getting tired of the fact that well over half the games listed are "no rush for ___ minutes." It seems it is getting harder and harder to find a normal game.


★★★★★
Roly_the_Insane
Skirmisher
posted 02-18-06 02:25 PM EDT (US)     22 / 32       
That is partially my point.. the win/loss ratio is inaccurate due to scamming no rush games. It would benefit everybody to have a built-in restriction on the attack time, IF the host wants it. Please no-one try to convince me how it wouldn't work, it's been done many times and it works just fine.
The programming of an event -triggered global condition is not that hard at all, it's IN PLACE in multiple working big name games, and it prevents precisely the abuse that people here have seen.
Cy Marlayne
Skirmisher
posted 02-18-06 02:31 PM EDT (US)     23 / 32       
Don't list the game as no rush! List the game as:

"_v_ No Attack for __ Min"

- No attack games apply more rules.
- No rush games can have most of their rules bent, such as fighting over trade posts before reaching your time limit.
- After about 10 minutes of play, the game is no longer considered a rush.


To check to see if someone will rush or break the rules check their deck after you receive your first shipment. A rush deck is usually determined by resource cards and military unit shipments. If you see only resource cards, then compare the with other cards or why they would need them. For example, if they're Dutch, they might have food and wood shipments to help get their banks up faster. Don't take the usual booming civs for rushing civs (Brit, Ports, and Dutch).


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Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 02-18-06 02:45 PM EDT (US)     24 / 32       
I'm kinda curious about something ... How is posting here on this forum going to make the fact that not all people are true to their word, any better?

This game is not designed for accomodating "no conflict til X minutes" games. Thus if you are not willing to accept the game on these terms ... find another game. Although that may be alittle difficult. All the RTS games I've personally enjoyed thus far (Starcraft, Warcraft, C&C, Total Annihilation, Spellforce, Mechcommander, etc) never had such an option.

And lastly, an entirely personal opinion. No rush (or more accurately called, no conflict until X minutes) games are a strange idea in a game focused on conflict from minute one.
If you enjoy these, you're playing the wrong game. You should be playing Sim City/Caesar/Settlers type games. AoE3's focus is on combat, and the base/economy development part isn't nearly as fun. There are games which focus on base/economy development. They're alot more fun than moving villagers around and putting down Mills/Plantations in AoE3.

You're making the mistake of looking for what you want in the wrong game. It's like looking for a deep, complex storyline (the likes of Fallout, Planescape: Torment or Vampire: Bloodlines) in a MMOG like World of Warcraft or Everquest.
Or it's like looking for the kinda of soul sucking grind fest PvE (player vs environment) gameplay of World of Warcraft/Everquest in Guild Wars (a game focused on player vs player, not PvE).
It's like looking for the thrills and action of Half Life 2 in an adventure game like Myst II.

You're trying to shape the game into something it's not. Instead of finding the game that fits your tastes better.


"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
IllusiveMind
Skirmisher
posted 02-18-06 04:53 PM EDT (US)     25 / 32       
I join no rush games and then I rush then. If they have no military units, I retreat...yes I don't trust anyone.
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