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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » Issues with “No Rush” Games
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Topic Subject:Issues with “No Rush” Games
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MosheLevi
Scenario Contest Winner
posted 03-09-06 01:22 PM EDT (US)         

I have played several “No Rush” games online (1V1 and 2V2) and become a witness to different type of issues where players are getting into disagreements about what is allowed and what is not during the “No Rush” period.

I was witness to cases where one player was sending his explorer to his opponent’s base, and his opponent’s units automatically attacked the explorer.
The player then demanded that his opponent would stop his units from attacking his explorer, claiming that “No Rush” means no attack at all.

There have been other cases where a player built barracks and stables near his opponent’s base, and demanded from his opponent to remove his units from the area so they don’t attack his buildings.

There have been cases where two explorers got into a fight and both players blamed each other for rushing.

The list of issues goes on and on, and I was a witness to those issues in most “No Rush” games.
Needles to say that in every occurrence players were swearing and excusing each other for cheating, and the atmosphere was not too friendly to say the least.

The problem is that there are no defined rules for “No Rush” games and everybody are using their own interpretation.
Many players (mostly the ones with high win percentage) are taking advantage of the “No Rush” rule and are building fort, barracks and stables very near to their opponent’s base, knowing that they would not be attacked.

I therefore feel that the unofficial “No Rush” games is not working very well, and I would like to ask Ensemble (once again) to implement a “Cease Fire” option.

The most simple solution to a “Cease Fire” option (for a specific amount of time), is to disable the training units icons and unit shipments, until the cease fire is over (Germans would get all their Hulans when the cease fire expires)

Players can build Barracks and stables but cannot train any units from them until the cease fire is over.

Minuteman, explorer, and Villagers can still attack, but they are not going to be effective.

In addition to that, no build up would be allowed on the other half side of the map until the cease fire is over.

IMO, this would resolve the issues we currently have with “No Rush” games.

AuthorReplies:
MosheLevi
Scenario Contest Winner
posted 03-09-06 04:07 PM EDT (US)     26 / 103       

Quote:

Because it's silly. Just a 'no rush' fan should be able to build up a defense army for the countdown.

50% of the listed games online are “No Rush” games.
Are you suggesting that 50% of the players are just plain silly?

I am still waiting for you to answer my questions about if you play “No Rush” games, and why do you object the “Cease Fire” option if you never plan to use it.

Quote:

And how about claiming treasures during 'peace'? I don't want to see an opp. stealing my earned nuggets.

Claiming treasures and stealing treasures have nothing to do with “No Rush”.
Explorers would be able to fight for treasures and that would be OK (it’s not OK now according to many players).

Quote:

I want to be able to choose a good build place for fort, tower, TC, TP ... and in case enforced.

You could do so as soon as the “Cease Fire” is over.
Just train a small army, and send your fort wagon and a few villagers to the other side of the map as soon as you can and build your forward base.
Imagine how much fun that would be.

Quote:

I don't know, what you analyzed and designed in the past - but surely no games

I have been designing business applications, but believe me when I say that it is all about logic, and games are no exception.

[This message has been edited by MosheLevi (edited 03-09-2006 @ 04:09 PM).]

Master Kamst
Skirmisher
posted 03-09-06 04:10 PM EDT (US)     27 / 103       
i HATE no rush games i don't c the point of them anyone can get a good encom over 30 MINUTES!!!!! i think no rush games are for ppl that have no idea how to play. WHy don't u just call them "noob wars". A GOOD player does normal games where the opponent CAN rush.
Natus
Skirmisher
posted 03-09-06 04:11 PM EDT (US)     28 / 103       

Quote:

then you are asking some people just quit playing altogather

Oh my heavens, what shall we do? A bunch of nitwits who don't have the stones to play RM or DM will quit playing because an online Sandbox game isn't enabled? Say it ain't so! ESO would collapse!

Quote:

But, how can we tell 50% of online players that they cannot play “No Rush” games?

Oh, they can play them, they just can't complain about it. Every "WAAH! No Rush games don't work!" thread should be locked!

It's like me complaining that my car won't run on milk. It's not supposed to!

Quote:

They have a right to play anyway they want, they just need Ensemble’s help to set down the rules.

Actually, no they don't. ES, just like most of us here, couldn't care less. You want to play stupid No Rush games, have fun. Just don't come here and act bewildered and persecuted. Shut up and play the damn game.

The Bob
Skirmisher
posted 03-09-06 04:33 PM EDT (US)     29 / 103       
All of you mental rejects who keep saying no rush games are for no skills players, get a damn clue please!

There is a little known thing called "fun" and I'm pretty "sure" that most "people" have it in their "own" ways, for "example" they like to play "no rush" games.

Is it seriously so hard to understand that not everybody is retarded enough to play what forumites all play?

justiw
Skirmisher
posted 03-09-06 04:36 PM EDT (US)     30 / 103       
Actually, ES really should care a lot. Nearly 50% of players of AOE3 like "no rush" and want some kind of built in support for that game. If ES does not accomodate these players, many of them will stop playing. But, the big thing is, many of these players will decide to NEVER buy another AOE series game again. The last thing ES wants to do is discourage future customers.

It's very funny that people that play "no rush" are always accepting of the "normal" players, but the "normal" players rarely accept "no rush" players. It's not like any "no rush" implementations will have any effect on the "normal" game. Just stop complaining about it and let ES sort it out. In the meantime, "no rush" players are going to communicate their views in hopes that ES will implement something to support their gaming style (which they will).


Counter the attack, then Counter Attack!!!
CwlHeddwyn
Skirmisher
posted 03-09-06 04:44 PM EDT (US)     31 / 103       
i like playing No Rush games because:

i play as the Brits and basically would get owned by the Otto's most of the time in a standard game

i like playing long games with mass armies fighting eachother

my friends like playing No Rush- so i play it with them.

Natus
Skirmisher
posted 03-09-06 05:06 PM EDT (US)     32 / 103       

Quote:

All of you mental rejects who keep saying no rush games are for no skills players, get a damn clue please!

No flames allowed! Didn't you see the sign?

Quote:

There is a little known thing called "fun" and I'm pretty "sure" that most "people" have it in their "own" ways, for "example" they like to play "no rush" games.

Italicize much?

Look, you no-rush goons can masturbate over your AoE3 disks for all I care, just don't post complaints that the game doesn't work thereafter!

Quote:

Is it seriously so hard to understand that not everybody is retarded enough to play what forumites all play?

No, but it's hard to understand players so retarded to play the game as it was not meant to be played by ES and then whine about it. Play football with a balloon instead.

Quote:

Actually, ES really should care a lot. Nearly 50% of players of AOE3 like "no rush" and want some kind of built in support for that game.

Prove it. I don't know where you clowns are getting that statistic.

Quote:

If ES does not accomodate these players, many of them will stop playing.

Bull***. And if they do, so much the better. Won't hurt me or ES in the slightest.

Quote:

But, the big thing is, many of these players will decide to NEVER buy another AOE series game again. The last thing ES wants to do is discourage future customers.

More bull****. Do you work on a farm? Almost every Age game that comes out, people whine about something and leave in droves. And the Age games still sell well. Instead of posting here, why don't you bright lights go create a mod or something? This is just silly!

Quote:

the meantime, "no rush" players are going to communicate their views in hopes that ES will implement something to support their gaming style (which they will).

Your epic and undiluted naivete is charming!

Quote:

I like playing No Rush games because:
i play as the Brits and basically would get owned by the Otto's most of the time in a standard game

Totally untrue. I've only played one Otto in my last ten games as Russia. Brits are a better civ all around. Why don't you actually PLAY them online and see?

Quote:

i like playing long games with mass armies fighting eachother

Yeah, that actually happens in RM and DM too.

Quote:

my friends like playing No Rush- so i play it with them

Show them the light, my son. And if you play with your buddies, you shouldn't have any problems.

Shooting fish in a barrel...


[This message has been edited by Natus (edited 03-09-2006 @ 05:07 PM).]

BilboBeutlin
Skirmisher
posted 03-09-06 05:28 PM EDT (US)     33 / 103       
@MosheLevi

Quoted from MosheLevi:

Are you suggesting that 50% of the players are just plain silly?

Try to read. That was merely my answer to your Q

Quoted from MosheLevi:

why do you object to a “Cease Fire” option

It's entirely irrelevant, but if you're so interested:
I don't play ESO games at all, just because of too much pubescent children and geeks with pretended know-how *g*. Merely some LAN/DIP games with reliable friends.

I think, there were enough reasons adduced which reject 'no train' and 'no attack'. You can read above, imo a neutral way was introducing a 'taboo zone' for a limited time.
I don't principally decline a 'non-rush' option because I prefer strategy instead arcade. But if it's not technically implemented, one can only rely on agreements. That such are broken steadily: see real-life. *g*

Cy Marlayne
Skirmisher
posted 03-09-06 05:54 PM EDT (US)     34 / 103       
An even better idea would be to establish a "No Treaty" game rulebook. Discuss your terms before you launch the game. The terms are most often as follows:

- Don't build past your half of the map.
- Don't purposely attack any enemy unit unless purpose attacked first.
- Trade posts are first come first serve.
- Water is free for fishing, keep war ships away from enemy boats. If enemy boats are too close to your docks then you can't help but shoot them so you should not be penalized.
- As soon as the amounted time has passed, all rules are withdrawn.


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Shadow Rat
Skirmisher
posted 03-09-06 06:24 PM EDT (US)     35 / 103       
In no rush my deal is don't attack the enemy unless he's asking for it. I go ahead and kill his explorer if it gets too close, I will murder his villies if theyre standing in my town taking crates. If he tries to base up right by my town I attack it. I just don't push it if he's following those rules. ESO couldn't really expect to see a no rush rule as AoM never had that issue. Therefore they wouldn't know what to do to handle it and they know there are downsides to a ceasefire and such because not everything can be covered. I say things are fine as is.

Earth

"A planet does not explode of itself," said dryly
the Martian astronomer, gazing into the air.
"That they were able to do it is proof
that highly intelligent beings must have been living there."

BilboBeutlin
Skirmisher
posted 03-09-06 06:29 PM EDT (US)     36 / 103       

Quote:

ESO couldn't really expect to see a no rush rule as AoM never had that issue

I think, the clever guys have thought about .. there are some hints, like the 'EnableTreaties' switch in game.cfg
MosheLevi
Scenario Contest Winner
posted 03-09-06 06:29 PM EDT (US)     37 / 103       

Quotes by Natus:

Quote:

Actually, no they don't. ES, just like most of us here, couldn't care less

Quote:

Prove it. I don't know where you clowns are getting that statistic.

Just to prove you wrong and show you how much you don’t know.
Bellow is a quote by Sandayman from the agecommunity forum:

Quote:

13) Is there any chance that you will (through a patch or exp pack) add "no rush" as a gametype?
A – we are aware of the popularity of this type of gameplay and are looking at ways to incorporate it as a standard feature. Issues here include how to keep it from being exploited by antisocial types

Natus
Skirmisher
posted 03-09-06 06:53 PM EDT (US)     38 / 103       
He's just saying that to get you pee-wees off his ass! Good lord, it took them how many patches to get attack-move enabled? We don't even have Patrolling or Hotkeys for Formations, Explorer Abilities, etc.

Dream on!

BilboBeutlin
Skirmisher
posted 03-09-06 07:00 PM EDT (US)     39 / 103       

Quoted from Natus:

Dream on!

Yes, do it. Since demo1.0 it was possible to assign commands to hotkeys. Only what's not implemented, you can't assign.

Perhaps you should also rethink your diction?

Dio_the_lonely
Banned
posted 03-09-06 07:07 PM EDT (US)     40 / 103       
Some noob in a No Rush called me a cheater. I was in Industrial as dutch and he was in Discovery as french still at 14 min(30 min no rush). I built a Towncenter to the north of him between two Goldmines and around some huntables. After I had like 12 villies there (I am slow at building villies) he sees my villies hunting near where his were hunting. He follows them and sees my TC. He then builds outposts right next to the TC to shoot off my villies, and sent like 20 courers to attack my TC, after demanding I destroy it and kill all my villies. I instead garrison the villies and shoot off his villies. I tell him to stop attacking me, and he says no. So I taking this as rushing send 2 heavy cannons and blow away his villies and Outposts. He then calls me a cheater saying I had attacked him, and that my fort which I build some hunting villies way to the south by his ally because his german ally kept using uhlans to attack my villies. When I built it he called me a cheater because it autoshot at his explorer. He also called me a cheater because I had sent my explorer to pick up some treasure by him, and after I he had got the treasure I just left him there, and the guy calls me a cheater because I was apparantly spying on him.

Some guys are so immature.

Nightfire
Skirmisher
posted 03-09-06 07:08 PM EDT (US)     41 / 103       
NR games always turn into noob bashing, there is never any competition for players who play normal games. NR's are always noobs (in my experience)

^^^
MosheLevi
Scenario Contest Winner
posted 03-09-06 07:50 PM EDT (US)     42 / 103       

Quote:

Some noob in a No Rush called me a cheater. I was in Industrial as dutch and he was in Discovery as french still at 14 min(30 min no rush). I built a Towncenter to the north of him between two Goldmines and around some huntables. After I had like 12 villies there (I am slow at building villies) he sees my villies hunting near where his were hunting. He follows them and sees my TC. He then builds outposts right next to the TC to shoot off my villies, and sent like 20 courers to attack my TC, after demanding I destroy it and kill all my villies. I instead garrison the villies and shoot off his villies. I tell him to stop attacking me, and he says no. So I taking this as rushing send 2 heavy cannons and blow away his villies and Outposts. He then calls me a cheater saying I had attacked him, and that my fort which I build some hunting villies way to the south by his ally because his german ally kept using uhlans to attack my villies. When I built it he called me a cheater because it autoshot at his explorer. He also called me a cheater because I had sent my explorer to pick up some treasure by him, and after I he had got the treasure I just left him there, and the guy calls me a cheater because I was apparantly spying on him.

LoL,

Yes, that is how "No Rush" games look these days.
What is funnier is that some people in this forum say that "No Rush" games are fine the way they are right now.


[This message has been edited by MosheLevi (edited 03-09-2006 @ 07:51 PM).]

Natus
Skirmisher
posted 03-09-06 08:12 PM EDT (US)     43 / 103       

Quote:

Perhaps you should also rethink your diction?

Perhaps you should read what I wrote, smartass! ES_Deathshrimp said that they haven't yet implemented hotkeys for formations, sharpshooting, etc. And it has nothing to do with my diction, which is impeccable!

Quote:

Some guys are so immature.

A-MEN!!!


BilboBeutlin
Skirmisher
posted 03-09-06 08:22 PM EDT (US)     44 / 103       
@Natus
No .. it has only to do with your limited capacity to write own 'user.con'.

And to your 'style' *cough* .. be happy, that the BBS filter doesn't kick ..

Aoe3Wolverine
Skirmisher
posted 03-09-06 10:59 PM EDT (US)     45 / 103       
Honestly, I don't understand why theres so much fuss about this. Some people just don't want to obey the rules. How do you deal with it? Make sure you have some form of military. Besides, if you want to maximize your first attack, when you go industrial (20 min) you should have maxed out your pop to 199 already, then click the age up for 12 musks + 1 HC, then ship a merc army. So before this time you should have steadily built up miltary anyways...

I play both rush and no rush, and I usually never encounter these sorts of problems...maybe you should establish rules beforehand? Play a 3v3 and this usually won't happen as much. Some people are just immature.

Moshe, think about this, if you had your way with the changes, the best strategy you could possibly use in no rush is gone. Depending on civs, I can get a devastating 200 + pop space army with 80-90 villies for my first attack. Your strategy would make this impossible to pull off properly.

As an addition, its a good trick to pop out 10 musks/skirms or use your uhlans to go with your explorer and take treasures. This would make treasure hunting so much more difficult. And how would you handle Native warrior treasures?

The only thing wrong about No-Rush games right now is that even though you give people 30+ minutes, they are still incapable of developing anything resembling a good econ. And they will never learn if they keep playing no-rush.

Hoshii
Skirmisher
posted 03-09-06 11:20 PM EDT (US)     46 / 103       
I think...People should just grow up and not play no rush games because they're too much of a P**** to play a real game? O.O!!! That solves everthing =P.

Funniest thing I've ever done to a bunch of a-holes were counter rushing them when they rushed me and pizzed me off by killing a villie =). And so came the endless b*t**ing =).

"OMFG! YOU WALLED MY SETTLERS IN!"....
"Uh...it was auto...>_>"

BilboBeutlin
Skirmisher
posted 03-09-06 11:44 PM EDT (US)     47 / 103       
@Hoshii
That was a very useful post, and indeed some letters were readable to understand a brick of sense *g*

@topic
- You can begin a single-player skirmish game .. and you know, what's to be expected .. no treaties .. no respect
- Begin a MP game with unknown .. be prepared for surprises
- Start a game with friends and you can almost rely on agreements

OT
Perhaps many people have to learn: if a vendor makes the super-exclusive-offer-only-for-you ... is he a saint?
One should not all take for fact, what is told ..

Natus
Skirmisher
posted 03-10-06 00:09 AM EDT (US)     48 / 103       

Quote:

@Natus
No .. it has only to do with your limited capacity to write own 'user.con'.

Well, you got me there. BLAM-MO! I can't write my own user.con. I'm so ashamed!

BilboBeutlin
Skirmisher
posted 03-10-06 00:51 AM EDT (US)     49 / 103       
*sniff* .. poor boy
to help you a little, put
map ("0", "game", "uiFindType(\"Hero\")")
into your "user.con" and the key [0] will magick to jump to your explorer .. nice, eh?
insert
map("alt-mousez", "building", "uiWheelRotatePlacedUnit")
and you can enjoy to rotate (most) buildings before placing.
Nice trick?
Cy Marlayne
Skirmisher
posted 03-10-06 01:21 AM EDT (US)     50 / 103       
The clan that I'm in is an exclusive "No Attack" clan. We have nearly 50 people in the clan and nearly 20 of those are decent players. Ten of those 20 could play regular style gameplay if they wanted to. I'm included in those 10.

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