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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » AI wars
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Topic Subject:AI wars
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B_V war lord
Skirmisher
posted 03-15-06 02:31 PM EDT (US)         
creit to plexiq.look in tread new and impoved ai.....

A great idea AI vs AI games to see who can make the best AI a great chance for AI moders to show how good they are and to get new people to make AIs for the game( just 2-3 AI at the moment).

AuthorReplies:
Felix Hermansson
Skirmisher
posted 03-18-06 05:28 AM EDT (US)     26 / 38       

Quote:

Here s the ransom-related code

This might have worked with the Beta version you used, but not in the retail version - the aiRansomExplorer() function still exists, but it does nothing.


Quote:

Levy still seems to be included in retail

It is, but it doesn't work either. Even if you get rid of at least two major bugs in this rule, researching the Levy tech does absolutely nothing again.


Ok, back on topic:

[Q]Just for a short summary, (propably) interested ppl atm: tster, Felix, Strong Man, myself[Q]

Sorry if I didn't make myself clear, but I'm not interested in participating in this sort of contest. I'm busy enough improving my Draugur AI, which has a completely different approach.

I would be willing to support this competition though, help with the organisation or whatever. (Of course that's only because I want to get my hands on all this cool new AIs, but don't tell anyone...)

Right now I'm trying to figure out a way to let these AIs actually compete against each other. As far as I know there is no way to run an AI-only game in skirmish mode, and using the scenario editor to set up the battlefield might lead to some limitations. For one, (for all I know) it's not possible to enable the ransom explorer feature for an SPC scenario, and there might be more pitfalls around.

Btw, as far as maps are concerned I would recommend using highly randomized maps like RF_Gandalf's 'Big Continent' (with water) or my own 'Land Unknown' (without water). I wouldn't use any of ES's standard maps where the starting positions for the players are fixed - that would be too easy!

plexiq_
Skirmisher
posted 03-18-06 05:58 AM EDT (US)     27 / 38       
About playing AI vs AI:
We didnt get it to work with skirmish in the beta. What we did was setting up a random map in the editor and letting the AIs play there.

I actually hoped that it would be possible to play ai vs ai in skirmish again - as it used to be in aom.

Using Land Unknown seems like a good idea. I d rather not include water for now. Anyway, we r down to only 2-3 participants, thats clearly not enough.

I think you should still let your Draugur AI compete, (together with the Standard AI?). There wont be much additional work for you anyway?

PS: Does the aiEcho command work again?
PPS: Did you test varying the last parameter of the aiRansom call? Like, using a TC's id or smthg like that...

[This message has been edited by plexiq_ (edited 03-18-2006 @ 06:01 AM).]

Felix Hermansson
Skirmisher
posted 03-18-06 07:55 AM EDT (US)     28 / 38       

Quote:

I actually hoped that it would be possible to play ai vs ai in skirmish again

Not that I would know of, but it might be possible to pull some tricks using a LAN game configuration. Hmm...


Quote:

Does the aiEcho command work again?

I don't know - I don't even get the debugger to work. That's why I introduced an echoMessage() function which uses chats for that.


Quote:

Did you test varying the last parameter of the aiRansom call?

I take it you mean the first parameter (the last is just the priority)? Yep, tried everything I could think of. Explorer, TC, different ways to get the unit Id - nothing. Oh well, I implemeted a rule that lets the AI rescue the explorer instead. aiGetFallenExplorerId() at least works.


Quote:

I think you should still let your Draugur AI compete

I don't see much sense in that, but if someone wants to use it for tests that's fine with me. If a civilization-specific AI cannot beat the Draugur, it's back to square one for the designer...

plexiq_
Skirmisher
posted 03-18-06 01:47 PM EDT (US)     29 / 38       

Quote:

I don't know - I don't even get the debugger to work. That's why I introduced an echoMessage() function which uses chats for that.

The debugger works fine and is very usefull (breakpoints, etc...). But the aiEcho didnt seem to work in Beta, we also used Chat Messages for that (or abused plans, if we needed to "print" loads of data)

For debugger, try:

To user.con:


map ("alt-shift-d", "root","gadgetToggle(\"XSDebugger\")")
map ("alt-shift-q", "aidebug", "AIDebugInfoToggle")

To user.cfg:


aiDebug
showAIEchoes
developer
Growth Theory
Skirmisher
posted 03-18-06 03:23 PM EDT (US)     30 / 38       
I'd love to be a part of something like this. I've never programmed AI before so I'll need some pointers, but I was a CS major in college so I should be able to do it.

I feel the first step is getting some sort of final function and constant list (rather than just the AOM one).

plexiq_
Skirmisher
posted 03-18-06 04:57 PM EDT (US)     31 / 38       
You can find a list of constant & function declarations in your My Games/AoE3 3/AI folder. Open one of the .dmp.txt files there. You should be able to figure out the constants and function signatures from there.

I ve a "cleaned up" version of this somewhere, but its only from beta - so thats propably not up to date.

Growth Theory
Skirmisher
posted 03-18-06 11:22 PM EDT (US)     32 / 38       
Alright, it seems pretty obvious that this can only be accomplish via teams due to the intense amount of time in completely re-writing the AI code.

So how can we get enough people to get involved so we can have multiple teams? Has anyone posted on agesanctuary about a competition? Are there other outlets we can exploit?


plexiq_
Skirmisher
posted 03-19-06 03:21 AM EDT (US)     33 / 38       
Well, the idea would be that we pick specific settings. If you check the standard AI, most of the code is related to map/civ/unit preferences, teamplay, etc. That stuff wouldnt bother us for 1on1/specific map/picked civ.

A complete rewrite would still require a lot of work. But modifying the standard AI to perform a specific build-order/strat wouldnt be thaaat much work.

Anyway, we still need a few people. I gues we should post about this on agesanct - although most of the ai scripters/modders hang out here.

Adri
Skirmisher
posted 03-19-06 03:14 PM EDT (US)     34 / 38       
not that I can make any AI myself but I would realy like to see better AI scripts!

I mostly play singelplayer and had gotten quite bored of aoe3...untill I tried Felixs Draugur script, that rocked and made playing against AI 10 times more fun!

Jugit
Skirmisher
posted 03-19-06 03:20 PM EDT (US)     35 / 38       
Adri - What made it more fun?
Adri
Skirmisher
posted 03-19-06 03:48 PM EDT (US)     36 / 38       
the AI is more competiting and are taking (more) use of certain aspects of the game that it didn't use before, like the usage of the sea and mercenaries
tster123
Skirmisher
posted 03-20-06 11:35 AM EDT (US)     37 / 38       
I was thinking about the AIs competing against one another and I came across another problem. If two people write spanish AIs then they couldn't compete because the computer that runs the script will pull the AIs from the same script. no way to make the game pull 1 AI from 1 scriupt and another from another script. at least, not that I know of.
plexiq_
Skirmisher
posted 03-20-06 01:32 PM EDT (US)     38 / 38       
you can let them play spanish vs spanish. Thats no problem - at least not in editor. I dont know about skirmish.
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