Dude u add 10 skirms on top of it, unasked.
Spanish, when they FF ... *gasp* ... build Skirmishers.Quoted from Luckyass:
The new comparison u made adds highlanders, skirms and falcs for spanish.
Because that what they use to attack me with. That and Swiss Pikes. Since when are Spanish only attacking with Lancers, Pikes and Falconets? If they were only doing that, they'd be no challenge at all. But they're not ...Quoted from Luckyass:
Yes the 700 wood is an XPboost, and it gets in pretty late. But it provides 700 XP or somthing. Thats 3,5 times the TP.
Ha, is that a joke? How exactly does abit of XP from buildings 5-6 minutes into the game equal to a Trade Post generating XP from 0:45 into the game?
Quoted from Luckyass:
Bout treasurehunting. On almost any map i can find a 1 coureur treasure, 130 wood, 120 food and more of those. They all affect 1. economy, 2. TPs that can be built 3. faster aging times. These also provide xp, so dont act like its a little bonus, cause its not.
I can get the same 130 wood, 120 food tresures with alittle micro, and without a dog. It's called practice.
As for these providing XP, sure, you get about 10-25 XP per guardian. That's a drop in the bucket. It is a very small bonus. Hell you'd need to kill 10 guardians just to equal one shipment.And I'm not stupid with my Explorer. Very few times did a Spanish one and his dog manage to kill mine. More times I lured one to my TC and killed HIM by garrisoning villagers for ~10 seconds.
Quoted from Luckyass:
U stated its unrealistic for spanish to build anymore lancers after their first shipment, just as that quote shows,
You need to read more closely. I stated it was unrealistic to get 11-16 Lancers AND train Skirmishers at the same time, yet stil attack by 7:30.
I also stated it's unrealistic to get that many Lancers so quickly when the Spanish player's economy or gathering were severly disrupted in Colonial. That's what that quote shows.
Well if u semiFFed/rushed on me, i immediately go out raiding w/ my lancers and pikes and try some serious attacks.
If u FF, most of the time I sit back and try hold back ur attacks.
If I'm not doing a disruption raid in colonial and I FF, then I pretty much always defend against Spanish. I don't attack them. I know they have to do some serious damage to me quickly or they fall behind.
And it's alot easier to defend at home with TC/Fort/Outpost and choke points advantage.
And FYI, I usually wait for the typical Lancers and Pikes ... with 5 Spahi and 5 Abus Guns.
Quoted from Luckyass:
Thats almost always the case vs ottoman. Survive the first few minutes and then countrattack.
Spanish however, w/ their big number of shipments are pretty good at surviving and counterattacking.
I invite you to watch one of those recordings I posted. That's exactly what happened. I decided to disruption rush late, and though I killed some villagers, I ended up loosing all my Janissaries to Lancers. Then came the Spanish counter attack you speak of. It FAILED. See, one KNOWS it's coming. And so one can prepare.
You're forgetting that at this state in the game, the Ottoman has just as many or more shipments. He has the same quality shipments (5 Spahi, 2 Falconets, 8 Janissary, 7 Stradiots, 5 Mamelukes, 11 Corsairs, Jan Combat card, etc).
There were very few times when I had trouble surviving the Spanish shipment powered counter attack, and those times were due to my own stupidity (started boom/expantion too soon, not enough defenses).
Quoted from Luckyass:
After the first wave (wich is to be expected anyway) one shouldnt be surprised anymore. I dont get it. People FF, thus focus mainly on their base and still manage to not see ur jannys come in?
Ofcourse they aren't surprised when I come back 30 seconds later. That stil doesn't mean their villagers are invulnerable. They stil have to garrison.
As for them not seing me coming, most of the time they do see, ofcourse. But villagers don't instantly transport from mine/hunts to the TC/Outpost. Some die on the way, which is what I'm there to accomplish.
Quoted from Luckyass:
U must be facing bad FFers. Every FFer should have all his food to age up before 5 mins.
U aint gonna benefit from any disruption if he gets to age3 quicker. 6 lancers rip ur remaining jannys apart and congratulations now u give him the chance to rule the game and have map control.
They may have all the food, but they don't have enough gold. They have to be outside the TC to collect the gold from mine/shipment. That's when they die. Also, most Spanish players I've faced do stil hunt beyond the 5 minutes you claim. Probably because they intend to make Skirmishers in Fortress.
There are always vulnerable villagers to be found, no matter how you try to present it otherwise.
And actually, I benefit hugely from a Colonial disruption, whether or not the Spanish player gets to Fortress 30 seconds to a minute faster than me. As I survive his counter attack, my economy is almost completely intact, and his is crap. THAT is the point of Colonial disruption.
As his counterattack fails, I put up my other two TCs.
As his counterattack fails, I go raid the remainder of his villagers with my surviving Spahi or Corsairs.As for 6 Lancers ripping apart my remaining Janissaries ... seriously, had that happens tons of times. It doesn't matter. All I have to do is survive the Counter attack, which most times I have done.
Quoted from Luckyass:
Well its not a prob either way. If it comes out ur doing afullout rush and my tc is in danger i call out my minutemen.
And I thank you for wasting 300 resources as I walk away for 30 seconds, then come back and kill those Minutemen in seconds.
But ofcourse I rarely do a "full out" rush. They're mostly pointless, considering the TC HP increase and how fast Spanish can get those Lancers out. It's alot better to disrupt, get to Fortress by 7:00-7:30, and get those Spahi, Falconets and Abus Guns out.
Quoted from Luckyass:
explain how garrissoning and ringing out gets them villies killed?
Because Janissaries are ranged units, and a decent player will be waiting for you do do exactly that. Every time you ring them out to gather alittle gold, one of your villagers dies.Quoted from Luckyass:
And vs ottoman i almost always use colonial militia (instead of 5 villies shipment).
This increases the attack of the tc.
BTW u as the otto dont know how many villies are in that tc, so i wouldnt keep walking around that tc.
1. Congradulations, now your single villager takes a whopping 16 shots to kill a single Janissary. Hehe.2. You can usually tell how many villagers are in the TC by the amount of damage your Janissaries are taking per hit.
3. In my post on the disruption raid in Strategy Central, I clearly pointed out that one should MOVE OUT of TC line of sight (and thus it's firing range) when there are no villagers around to kill. Then come back later when you know he'll have ungarrisoned.
Quoted from Luckyass:
Well think of it... What leading strats are thought of by intermediates? Yes none.
The German FF and merc using was developed by Swinger and Starsky
The Spanish FF was developed by Black Ice Spain.
All of these are 2100+.
Its not impossible to design a good strat as intermediate, its just little chance u will acomplish that.
1. Actually, I watched some recordings by John Doe recently, and was shocked to discover that he is doing nearly identically the same thing I am. Know why? Because it's common bleeding sense. It isn't hard to come up with.
Know why he's an expert and I'm not? 'Cause his execution of the same strategy is about 100 times better.2. It's funny. I just checked and you're 1925 on cuetech (Lycky_ass). You're just 34 points removed from me. Yet you are playing Spanish, and I'm playing the nerfed Ottomans. Hmmm, I'm not sure you're really in a position to be giving me advice ...
See, when you mentioned 2100+ players, I assumed you were one. Now I know better.
Quoted from Lyckyass:
Ive been defeated by an ottoman 3 times in a row. _RaiN was his name i thought. He did a full out rush, and if he saw it didnt work, he got to fortress asap. Usually around 10 minutes.
I thought it was a pretty good strat, but i discovered it was mainly the rate difference that decided the battles.
Rain: 2100+
and mine: 1960
Later i saw a rec of Heer vs Rain on ages, both 2100+. Heer won it with ease. He also said Spain are just plain old better than Ottos, and many agreed with him.
Then you need to watch those Solrac (Spain) vs John Doe (Ottoman) games. Or thar Ourk (Spain) vs John Doe (Ottoman) game.
Quoted from Luckyass:
Yes i know falcs counter skirms.
But culvs counter falcs 0_0
No but seriously what is the point of that comment? I know spahis and falcs counter skirms, but now u assume again ur enemy is a moron. Noone only build skirms.
Abus Guns > Culverins.Hell I stil take out a bunch of Falconets with Abus Guns, after my opponent has commited the Falconets to something else and isn't prepared for the Abus in time.
And no decent Ottoman is such a Moron as to only build one type of unit either. What was the point of the comment? You mentioned Skirmishers being a staple unit of Germany. I mentioned that Ottomans have just the perfect counters for that. Counters that we build regardless of the civ we play.
Quoted from Lyckyass:
Germans often have uhlans, jaegers and lansknechten on top of it.
Tell me who do better vs these units? Yes manchus.
They can hit and run lansknechten and excel vs uhlans. And they dont die as fast vs jeagers.
LOL. Are you bloody kidding me? You're actually claiming that MANCHU do better vs Jaegers than Corsairs? Man, what are you smoking? Corsairs actually force Jaegers into melee mode, where they do significantly less damage. Corsairs, by meleeing the Jaegers also give Janissaries a chance to get in range to do damage. Corsairs meeling the Jaegers slows them down, so they can't get away from Falconet fire as fast.
Manchu simply DIE from Jaeger ranged fire as they plink away dealing a whopping 16 damage a hit to Jaegers. Oh noes!And one would be utterly stupid to send in Corsairs vs Landsknecht. They're like the second strongest melee unit in the game. And you'll be hit and running them with MANCHU? Puh lease, Manchu are horrible at hit and run, as everyone knows. And god help your Manchu if Landsknecht close into melee mode. I mean my god man, you need a meatshield for your Falconets, and you want it to be Manchu vs Landsknecht, when they do 108 damage a hit to Cavalry?! Manchu would take 66 damage a hit in melee. Corsairs atleast would only take 33 damage. Corsairs will take HALF as much damage from Landskencht. Besides, 9/10 Germans actually use Black Riders instead of Landsknecht, against which Corsairs do tremendously better than Manchu.
If I scout a German actually coming at me with Landsknecht instead of Black Riders, it's Falconet time. The Corsairs go to raid villagers or remain to guard my Falconets againt the horde 'o Uhlans.
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