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Topic Subject: The FCUK Stratagy
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posted 05-03-06 06:25 AM EDT (US)   
The FCUK Strategy


Fast Colonial Uber banK

Introduction

First of all allow me to declare that I am NOT an expert Dutch player. I was simply interested in Dutch banks and explored a few ideas, along with exploiting a few other advantages of Dutch, I came up with this strategy. It may not be the savior for the weak Dutch as it is in 1.07 but I hope it will help you in some way, at the least from my limited experience it is better than most Dutch strategies I have come across, it is a bit similar to the 3 bank FF, but IMHO it is faster and better.

Dutch Unique Bonuses

  • Dutch gets banks.

    What's so good about them?
    --> 4.5 vils on gold
    --> 140 of build xp
    --> The best cost / build XP unit in the game
    --> Does not run out like vils on gold mine

    What's so bad about banks?

    --> Just cost a lot of wood and food.

  • An unique starting setup:
    --> 7 vils,
    --> 300 or 400 gold
    --> 200 or 100 wood
    --> 100 or no food

    Unlike most civ, Dutch can take full use of its starting gold, and Dutch has
    the fastest Age 1 start with 7 vils.


    This game is called Age of Shipmentsfor a good reason, you age, you get better shipment, so an idea came to me - instead of chop wood, lets use the shipment woods for our banks early.

    Build Order

    Game starts, put 4 settlers on hunt ASAP, 3 unpack gold crates, select TC and mash V.

    If you started with if 300 gold, leave all wood alone, if 400 gold, unpack 100 wood also, and build a house. Unpack food too, get everyone to hunt once needed crates are unpacked.

    Queue 3~4 settlers depend on your starting gold, put all settlers on hunt.

    That is right, no mining at all! And no age1 settlers shipments!

    Explorer on food treasure hunting, envoy on sheep + cow finding. if you want, you can eat them early, speed is everything here.

    It should be 1:55~2:05 that you have the require 800 food. click age up with 400 wood.

    After clicked aging, move 3 settlers to gold. build a house if you have none, now queue settlers once you have gold.

    Time is now 3:25~3:35 and you have just hit age2.
    Ship 700 wood and get hunting settlers to unpack the 400 wood crates and build a bank.

    This is something I canít help you with too much detail, you have to keep settlers production constant, also keep unpacking wood, also make banks, and hunt food as well. You also want to get the bank up ASAP, the earlier it is up, the less mining you have to do and the faster you get your next shipment.

    Generally I get second shipment ready before 700 wood arrives, so should you. Send 4 settlers next, ship 700 gold after that.

    Keep building banks, you should have 3 banks up by 6:00, then put all settlers on food, leave 1 or 2 unpacking gold crates.

    At this point you should have near no wood, very low food, and a bit of gold from the banks, how long it takes you to get 1200 food and 1000 gold depends on how many settlers you have, whether you eat herdables, and can your explorer find some food treasure.

    You will also max your pop at 20settlers, if you were lucky and started with 200 wood, or you found a wood treasure for over 50 wood, you can now build a house and keep settlers pumping, other wise you will be 50 short, it takes too long to chop, you might as well leave it.

    Use exile prince to get to age3. Time of arrival will be 7:15~7:45. You will have 1 shipment available and 1 more half way.

    End of BO


    Alternative BO

    1,
    Instead of 4 settlers, you could send 600 woods towards TP/4th bank. It is somewhat risky, but useful against booming civilizations such as British. You will hit fortress slower but with more shipments and bigger eco.
    In this case send 700 food next instead, because there will be surplus gold and not enough food.

    2,
    you could just send 700 gold straight after 700 wood. This will give a faster fortress but weaker eco. Ship 600 wood next for foundry and houses. You would do this if you plan for an all-mercenary powered fortress attack.

    Expanding the Stratagy


    Fortress War

    Here is where my Dutch expertise runs out, and my Dutch frustration kicks in, despite having a blast of an economy, Dutch troops are amongst the worst in the game, you will have no option but win through larger army which is supported by superior economy.

    Fortress game is all about brutal force. At this point, I think apart from mercenaries, the most effective unit combination for Dutch fortress is veteran hussars + veteran pikes + falconets.

    Pikeman replace both Ruyter and Halberdier for anti-cavalry, cheap, fast, and can do siege if required. while hussars are necessary for raiding and cannon killing.

    However this combination means a very cool 850 wood require for a barrack, foundry and stable, then another very cool 800 to get hussars and pikes up to veteran.

    Skirmishers can be used backing up if opponent goes musketeers / janissaries / pikeman heavy, but generally you will face lancers, war wagons, dragoons, cassadores, strelets, longbows and abus-guns, so there isnít much use for skirmishers.

    Halberdiers should only be used like a meat shield or anti raiding unit that stays at home. They are too slow for battlefield charge.

    Colonial Rush

    Option 1:


    Build only 2 banks, use the remaining wood from 700 wood shipment on 1 barrack and 1 house. Split 60% settlers on wood and 40% on food, new settlers on wood. Make pikes, ship 8 pikes next, they should arrive around 5:00, start the pike rush.

    Siege down all his houses and towers, then siege his town centre.

    Make skirmishers in between to cover pikes, ship hussars to keep his settlers garrisoned.

    This rush has been nerfed somewhat since the cover mode nerf.

    Option 2:


    Upon arriving in age2, build 1 bank with the 400 wood, send in 8 pikes and start taking down houses, next send 3 hussars to raid settlers, then proceed as normal, it can turn into a all out rush or fortress + mercenary attack.

    This approach is extremely strong against Portugal, as 90% time they will fail in protecting the building TC.

    Option 3:

    Use that 400 wood on 1 barrack and make 5 pikes, send in 8 pikes, attack with 13 pikes at as early as 4:30. 700 wood next for more banks. Stronger impact on first wave, but likely to run out of breath + very difficult to keep constant settlers production.

    (option 3 was suggested by schildpad, unjugon and stophon4)

    Fast Industrial

    After hitting fortress, if you think he is accumulating troops, and not attacking early fortress, put most settlers on food and a few on gold, ship in 1000 wood next, build the 4th bank, a barrack and a foundry. You should get enough XP for next shipment.

    Now if you see him coming with cavalry raiding, send 9 ruyters; if he is still doing his own thing, send in 4 towers(you get 140 build XP from them too). Next shipment is fort.

    If you have more than 2 shipment accumulated, build a church if you have the wood and get UC, otherwise donít bother. The point of UC is that you will have to send it at some point anyway, and now you can get instant 5 stridiots, unlike mercenaries that take 1 minute to arrive.

    Build culverins if you can see him coming in with falconets, build falconets if it is all infantry mercenaries. Build nothing if is cavalries, we have towers for that.

    Here is the thing, if you managed to not have to build anything, you should ended up with the required food and gold very quickly, trust me on this, you have the best eco any civ can have at this point, maybe only second to British, but British will be running out of near gold mines by now and started to investing in towers for far mines.

    Click aging, and wait for industrial. As soon as you clicked aging, start build decent defense, it is no point to get killed in the next 90 seconds.

    Once you in industrial, if you did not spend your shipments on other things, you should have at the least 1 shipment.

    You may have a lot of gold at this point, remember I told you to build a church? you can either spend 2000 on 30 guard musketeers(very good deal), or 1500 on mercantilism, mercantilism may only give you 2.5 shipment at this point, but that will still give you both factories and 2 heavy cannon, you decide.


    ====
    After number of games going into industrial, I am at a point of wondering if it is a good idea after all.
    Because Dutch donít get immediate benefit from being in industrial, tulip speculation and 30 guard musk are the only good things going for it. after that, Dutch is stuck with 2 of the worst RG units in the game, and one of its best unit - pikeman, cant get the guard upgrade. if you failed to kill your opponent while he is still in fortress, i.e. you let him into industrial as well, then you will experience even further disadvantage through weaker troops and less help from mercenaries.
    ====


    Stratagy Analysis

    What separates this strategy to the rest?

    - Hit age2 very fast at 3:30, age2 shipments are used very early, provides very strong economy and flexibility
    - Save about 500~600 gold on the mines, because bank took over settlers production very quickly
    - Explorer gains age2 stats earlier, he hunts better.
    - 700 wood arrives at 4:10, opens possibility for rush
    - Around 30 seconds faster compared to the old 3 bank FF
    - Better rush protection compared to the old 3 bank FF
    - Equal or better overall eco upon arriving age3 compared to old 3 bank FF


    Deck and Rec

    The games were played on LAN, my opponent is not great, he did Russian FF and sucks at it :P

    But then again, this is just to show you how this BO works. I am not that great with Dutch either.

    Two of these recordings are FF and one of them is a pike rush.

    http://chinainvincible.homestead.com/files/williamvulti1.age≠3rec
    http://chinainvincible.homestead.com/files/williamvulti2.age≠3rec
    http://chinainvincible.homestead.com/files/williamvulti3.age≠3rec

    [This message has been edited by ultimitsu (edited 02-07-2007 @ 01:02 PM).]

  • Replies:
    posted 05-04-06 01:10 AM EDT (US)     26 / 68  

    Quote:

    the trouble with 500 food instead of 400 wood is you will not have a bank this way, no banks means very expensive villagers, which means you either stuck with low vil count or not getting fortress that fast.

    no, the only difference here is 1 bank and 1min of time. 6min ff w/ exiled prince, 2 banks, and 14 or so settlers if you ship the 700w and 700g immediately upon hitting age2. the real problem w/ this start is getting housed. you'll have that issue whether you try to rush or ff, and im working on a way around all that. ideally, i would like to be able to nader rush w/ the 8pike shipment, but what im running into is either a fast advance and no eco to support it, or a significantly slower attack. if you're rushing, you simply do not have time to get more than 1 bank down no matter what you do.

    [This message has been edited by slackman42 (edited 05-04-2006 @ 01:14 AM).]

    posted 05-04-06 02:50 AM EDT (US)     27 / 68  

    slackman

    i tested a bit of your suggestion, indeed i got to age3 very fast, like 6~ish, but the problem is i have no banks with like 10 vils.

    and since i have no banks i cant really send in mercs, i sent 4 towers to give me some map control + defence coverage, but after that it still takes too long to recover.

    the only realy benefit of doing this is getting the 1k wood instead of 700, but you traded 400 wood for that, in return you only get 3 banks anyways.

    i say this because dutch dont have enough good normal troop shipment to justify vff like spanish and germany does, and since we have no TP nor build XP, we dont even have shipments either.,

    so did you work out a better way of doing it?

    posted 05-04-06 07:29 AM EDT (US)     28 / 68  
    a pike rush on carolina with the dutch can be veryy fast. try it sometime. only keep making vills untill you hav e 800 food. then stop any vill in que, and go up. flank a barracks on them, put up a house. 400 wood will be what you need to make pikes from the barracks. send the 8 pikes. you'll have a good 13 pikemen very fast. then you can que another 5 pikes and have a nice group of 18 pikes. take down all their houses, or as many as they can. do not allow them to build more houses. try to get some skirmishers aswell.

    Check out my YouTube Page!
    ESO - LO12DS_Fry
    posted 05-04-06 08:01 AM EDT (US)     29 / 68  

    Quote:

    i tested a bit of your suggestion, indeed i got to age3 very fast, like 6~ish, but the problem is i have no banks with like 10 vils.

    then i dont know what you're changing. i dont use a card in age1 and dont mine any gold. ship the 700w and 700g, build 2 banks and keep everyone on food the entire time. click age3 around 5:30, you might be able to get a couple more settlers out before you advance. the reason you'd want the 1k wood is to get the other 2 banks and a rax/stable and a house. or you could ship a fort/outposts or mercs if you moved your settlers to gold during the age up. you should have a shipment ready before you get there, from the 2 banks u built in age2.

    EDIT: but i guess the whole point here is that you dont really gain much by going to fortress, unless you plan on getting to industrial very soon for the merc army and factories. i think it might just be a better idea to stay in colonial and build military and eco there. but no matter what you do, you really need to get a bank or two down very quickly, or not at all. also, on carolina, if you start with the extra crates, you can get a bank down as soon as you can collect them all. this is a tremendous boost as it allows you to keep all settlers on food and still get a few more out before you advance, but you dont always get the extra crates.

    [This message has been edited by slackman42 (edited 05-04-2006 @ 08:21 AM).]

    posted 05-04-06 10:13 AM EDT (US)     30 / 68  
    on carolina i create that bank after starting to age up. Otherwise you need to collect 1150 food before you can age.

    "such a kind fellow!" ~ ķįŋğ_Ćħŗĩö_ĬĬ

    Furby killer should be crowned leader of AOE forum ~ [SW_GD]Teutonic

    posted 05-04-06 01:08 PM EDT (US)     31 / 68  
    I ran some tests and I can to a conclusion. The conclusion I came to was Ths strategy can be used for an Uber turtle to Fast Industrial. My goal was to keep my town small so my fort could guard almost all of it. Keep my vills close and have 4 banks so all my vills are on food so I can get to industrial fast with the Gold.

    Getting the 2000 food was my problem until I started to ship the 1000 food. I was getting to Industrial fast and sending an age IV shipment that would counter my enemy sometimes cannons,sometimes mercs, sometimes factories. The strategy is kinda funny and has some potential. Im not sold on the fact the getting to Industrial has any real advatages aside from the uber shipments.

    The best map for this is Patagonia or a level where you can fish. It allowed me to get my eco going quikly once I got to Industrial.

    Shipments

    Age 1: none
    Age 2: 700 wood 600 wood 700 gold
    Age 3: Fort, 1000 food
    Age 4: Play it by Ear SCOUT!!!!

    One of the guys I played got ready for a rush by me and it never came by the time he got to my Town it was to late as I had a Fort. My Industrial times varied from 10 - 14 minutes as sometimes I needed to make troops. Also, try and get a TP that will help your going to need shipments ready in Fortress and Industrial for this strat to work. Guard Skirms FTW!!!!!


    Alcohol, the cause and solution to all of lifes problems

    Homer J

    [This message has been edited by Seancahn (edited 05-04-2006 @ 01:09 PM).]

    posted 05-04-06 02:49 PM EDT (US)     32 / 68  
    sean it would be great if you can post some more details or rec. it is a bit hard to visualise with just the shipment order.

    ===========

    I found that if i started with 400 gold and i build the 11th vil in age1, i am actually worse off!?

    so i did a bit calculation.

    to have the 11th vil, i have to cellect extra 2 crates (100 wood + 100 gold), that is 15 seconds each, which is 30+ for both. then i have to build a house, which takes another ~30 seconds. so over all i lose about 60+ VS by having that extra vil, that when that last vil come out i am normally very close to having 800 food anyway so he didnt really help me get into colonial any faster.

    the slowest was 2:10+ with 11 vils. and the fastest was 1:50 with just 10 vils. the difference is a lot more than 60 VS because there is a lot more to manage, such as right house placement etc.

    now if we get in to colonial 20 seconds slower, we will get our banks seconds slower too, a bank works like 2.7 gold/s so that is 50 gold that lost on each bank.

    so over all seems like even if you have 400 starting gold, you should still leave it at 10 vils colonial.


    ==============

    I added my own version of FI in the original post.


    [This message has been edited by ultimitsu (edited 05-04-2006 @ 09:30 PM).]

    posted 05-04-06 03:08 PM EDT (US)     33 / 68  
    This strat seems to be shaping up nicely. I like the flexibility =) I rushed a russian player with 13 pikes, took down his house so he can't ship army. Then I made 5 more pikes, went after his TC and started attacking in cover mode. He got to colonial when his TC was about 50% dead but had no house to ship units He quickly gathered resources for MM, but his TC went down before he could finish off my pikes. He started rebuilding two houses and a blockhouse but I killed those right away. He resigned at 6:40 =D

    In the meantime I shipped 700g so that I can make skirms if I want and 700w to get those banks up slowly and aim for about 9 min fortress time =D


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    [This message has been edited by dejanh (edited 05-04-2006 @ 03:09 PM).]

    posted 05-04-06 03:15 PM EDT (US)     34 / 68  
    i found that you are all witches or something because i dont know how you guys win. you should all loose every game.

    Check out my YouTube Page!
    ESO - LO12DS_Fry
    posted 05-04-06 03:27 PM EDT (US)     35 / 68  
    ^ lol, that was out of the blue =D

    (\__/) This is bunny.
    (O.o ) Copy him in your signature to
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    posted 05-04-06 03:29 PM EDT (US)     36 / 68  
    i'm pissed off cuz any people that i can actually do good against all play nr games or boot me. i mean wtf. i have to play actuall good people... what kind of world is this? why cant i just walk in and pwn some noobs. i mean come on.

    Check out my YouTube Page!
    ESO - LO12DS_Fry
    posted 05-04-06 04:45 PM EDT (US)     37 / 68  
    Ultimitsu really its much like yours and you really need to play the game by scouting and playing off your opponent. Every time I did the FI it was different with different times. Mercantilism in Industrial is one thing I didnt try I was usually using that gold for the uber age 4 mercs. If I dont need the units that gold is better spent on 2 factories.

    Ill keep messing with it beofre I post exaclty what I do. really its not much different then yours. Getting recs posted sux for me I know you guys always want them. Im not the best com[uter Guru and really dont know how or where to upload them. I will record some today If someone leaves a detailed way to post them I will.


    Alcohol, the cause and solution to all of lifes problems

    Homer J

    posted 05-04-06 08:55 PM EDT (US)     38 / 68  
    Hardcore Dutch fans have been searching for the holy grail of Dutch turtling for some time, and I think this thread has brought us closer than ever before.

    There are several choices to be made when considering the things we want for our base. We want:

    * vils
    * banks
    * fort/4 towers
    * military

    We want all that and we want it ASAP.

    My question right now is, does not mining gold in Discovery really get us those things faster? You have about 2 vils worth of idle TC time! Faster access to colonial shipments can't undo the fact that you lost the opportunity to have 2 more vils. It also can't undo the fact that you aged up with only 10 vils vs 16, losing 540vs (6vils * 90s). Of course, you gain some of that back by getting the banks up sooner.

    See I'm thinking ultimitsu may be on to something big here, but I have to remain skeptical until I see some sort of timeline of when those banks get up, when the 4 vil shipment arrives, how fast you get that fort up, etc. Or maybe I should just try it.

    Also another interesting choice is to send 4 vils instead of 3. You come out ahead eventually, but it takes a while because those 3 vils could have been out at 3:00 while the 4 vils don't arrive until much later. I'd say that usually you have enough time to recover from not getting 3 vils, but if you get rushed maybe you'll wish you had.


    EDIT: How about instead of 4 vils, you send UC right after 700g. Then you turtle with fort/towers and get yourself to 6 banks sooner than you would have if you waited to send UC. Also, you won't get housed in II at 20 vils and can keep the TC busy. Net result after the 6th bank is up is +9 vils +280XP from the extra 2 banks, and +2 vils from busier TC.


    agecommunity quote of the month Ok i have payed for this game for al my moneythat i get in a month so when i go online isee these 9 year old kids that beat me that have played for 2 weeks and i have played since release of vanilla so im pretty pissed of that es dosent want to do anything about the balance of the game.

    [This message has been edited by jaafit (edited 05-04-2006 @ 09:50 PM).]

    posted 05-05-06 01:19 AM EDT (US)     39 / 68  

    Quote:

    on carolina i create that bank after starting to age up.

    uh, no, what i meant was, sometimes you start w/ 4+wood and 4+food crates, this lets you get a bank down immediately, and you can send all your settlers to hunt and still produce from the tc.

    a friend of mine usually mines enough for 12 total settlers, then ships the 3, getting to age2 around 4min flat w/ 15 settlers. afaik, it works reasonably well.

    oh, and i must have forgotten what i did for my 6min 2bank 14+settler ff, because i tried it a bit ago and i didnt get there in time. i think what i may have done is sent 4 to mine during the age2 advance so that i'd have a few coming out, then collect the wood and get banks up, then ship the 700g and be in fortress at 6min w/ 2 banks and 14 or so settlers. this puts you ahead in getting to fortress, and you'll have a better eco than most others when you get there. the hard part is tearing down your opponent at that time, because they too will soon be in fortress and have access to better shipments and more tcs to boom from. ive started using a mixed halb/ruyter with culvs, this does quite well at times.

    posted 05-05-06 02:56 AM EDT (US)     40 / 68  
    on carolina you dont have to mine anyway. And now you have to collect 1150 food before you can age up

    "such a kind fellow!" ~ ķįŋğ_Ćħŗĩö_ĬĬ

    Furby killer should be crowned leader of AOE forum ~ [SW_GD]Teutonic

    posted 05-05-06 05:41 AM EDT (US)     41 / 68  
    no, you only have to hunt for 800f, you're using your starting crates for the bank instead of aging. if you didnt build the bank, you would likely only have to hunt 400f and could age much quicker, yes, but you would hamper your settler production due to not having enough build time before you reached 800f. this means you get your bank cost "paid off" a few minutes earlier at the expense of aging up a little later.
    posted 05-05-06 06:47 AM EDT (US)     42 / 68  
    in carolina it is definitely better to not put up a bank and age asap, same principle as in this strat, you will have even less TC idle time on carolina, if any,

    you should put up a bank once you strated aging, use the aging wood for 2nd bank, then 3rd bank from 700 wood and a TP.

    i dont think you will get into age3 significantly faster with this, but you will have more wood left over and a TP which you otherwise dont have.


    jaafit, the basic timeline for banks are:

    1st bank : 4:10~ish
    2nd bank : 4:50~ish
    3nd bank : 5:40~ish

    it depends on how well you managing food and vil production etc.

    here is a problem:

    ideally we want to have banks asap and non-stop vil production, but truth is we cant have both. if we want seemless vil production, banks will take a little longer to build, because we have more vils on gold so less vils on food and gather wood crate and building banks.

    now considering banks are so powerful and food is relatively fast and wood crate takes next to no time, it would seem that sacrifice vil production in pursuing faster banks will give us overall better result, but at the same time only vils can gather food so getting the required 1200 food ASAP after 3rd bank is critically dependent on vil count. so from this point of view if we really wanted fastest fortress time it appeared we should pay more attention on conctant vil production in sacrifice of bank time.

    [This message has been edited by ultimitsu (edited 05-05-2006 @ 07:27 AM).]

    posted 05-05-06 08:15 AM EDT (US)     43 / 68  
    Dutch rush can be unexpected. If i play dutch i almost never expect a rush .
    posted 05-05-06 10:56 AM EDT (US)     44 / 68  
    and that is the only reason it works, because they dont expect it. But beside that dutch rush is just crappy

    "such a kind fellow!" ~ ķįŋğ_Ćħŗĩö_ĬĬ

    Furby killer should be crowned leader of AOE forum ~ [SW_GD]Teutonic

    posted 05-05-06 01:03 PM EDT (US)     45 / 68  
    Why is the Dutch rush crappy? You can rush with pikes, back them up with skirms and hussar shipment. I don't think that is so bad...

    Getting back to what I wanted to say...

    I played an interesting game vs. a Spanish FFer. He did a standard Spanish FF, I did a dutch FF with a few defenses (10 skirms + 9 ryters and a fort). I managed to hold off against all of his attacks. The mistake I made is finally when I shipped my mercs instead of keeping them near my fort to deal with his merc/falc attack I went after his base which resulted in my fort getting killed and me loosing the game. One other choice I had after deflecting his inital attack was to go to industrial and ship merc army but I forgot to add the merc army to my deck so I didn't opt for that strat. If I had the card though it would have been enough to defeat him =D So yeah, at least against Spanish FF the strats that were mentioned in this thread can hold up =D


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    posted 05-05-06 01:04 PM EDT (US)     46 / 68  
    I dont have industrial mercs in deck. Maybe i add one. But factories is enough reason to go

    "such a kind fellow!" ~ ķįŋğ_Ćħŗĩö_ĬĬ

    Furby killer should be crowned leader of AOE forum ~ [SW_GD]Teutonic

    posted 05-05-06 05:11 PM EDT (US)     47 / 68  
    imo, unless you planned on industrial in the start, otherwise there is no need for more than 1 merc card in age4, if any.

    because you will always use the UC, on top of coffe trade, the uc gives you 2 very good army, costing a combined 3000 gold, then there is 3 good age3 mercs that you can use, thats another 3000, so after 6000 worth merc army(i count 30 muskts as merc), you either win the game, or you should be able to make good guard level army by now, with heavy cannon, culverin, guard hussar + guard ruyter and maybe guard skirms, there is very little need for any more mercs.

    posted 05-06-06 08:58 AM EDT (US)     48 / 68  
    only age3 mercs i have are BR

    "such a kind fellow!" ~ ķįŋğ_Ćħŗĩö_ĬĬ

    Furby killer should be crowned leader of AOE forum ~ [SW_GD]Teutonic

    posted 05-07-06 04:54 PM EDT (US)     49 / 68  
    This topic is quite entertaining to read imo. Dutch players looking for "the strat"

    In this game Speed > Econ almost lots of times. Speed + Econ could be quite nice but imo Spain can also do this by sending 9 vils in age 2 (4+5) and still have a strong ff. But the discussion is about dutch.

    Imo FI can be better than fighting in age3 mostly. During the age up to Indu, lots of fighting should be taking place but since you have the eco, you should be doing quite well (3 banks + 1 before ind can be nice, of course if youre making some vils as well). But a little mistake here and there can lose you the game with this strat. Imo, nice strat nonetheless because it can be a nice fake-rush strat which I love with all the civs

    Gj and keep perfecting everything. Dutch players need some kind of encouragement lol ^_^


    If you are reading this text, you are wasting your time.
    posted 05-08-06 01:51 AM EDT (US)     50 / 68  
    Who says boom has to be venurable to rush?

    i did this on sonora, considerablely slower map as herdables are not very close to TC, got to age2 at 3:38, got 3 banks up by 5:30, then arrives ottoman rush with grenadiers and horses.

    i allowed him to kill 2 of my houses, but thats ok cos i just sent over 600 wood, I quickyly built a barrack, and made some skirms and shipped 8 pikes, with 3 banks my skirs were just coming out non-stop, eventually killed all his crate-powered jans and abus guns.

    the game only lasted about 15 minutes, and i made

    Hussar 10
    Skirmisher 72
    Pikeman 18

    while he made

    Grenadier 18
    Janissary 59
    Abus Gun 10

    i found 8 pikes are very good as rush defense, because they dont get bonused by the jans like hussars do, and 8 of them were able to melee just about every grenadier so they were forced into melee.

    this ottoman rusher isnt that great, he is 19xx. but he knew what he was doing.

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