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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » Longbowmen, Strelets and Abus guns
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Topic Subject:Longbowmen, Strelets and Abus guns
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Hockeystar
Skirmisher
posted 06-28-06 08:57 AM EDT (US)         
These units are undestuctible in age 2 with a little anti-cav supporting them. Should these units be nerfed?
AuthorReplies:
aka99
Skirmisher
posted 06-28-06 09:00 AM EDT (US)     1 / 160       
Strelets being nerfed?


*faints*

LO12DS_Mist
Skirmisher
posted 06-28-06 09:05 AM EDT (US)     2 / 160       
If you're talking about 2v2, perhaps.

But 2v2 is drastically different from 1v1, all three of these units are fine in 1v1.


I am Rumour Kontrol.
KingSteve3721
Skirmisher
posted 06-28-06 11:08 AM EDT (US)     3 / 160       
no need to nerf, end of story.

although i have wanted a longbowmen nerf for awhile...


[FeaR]{KingSteve3721}
“I love my name of honor, more than I fear death.”- Julius Caesar
"The Pope! How many divisions has he got?"- Joseph Stalin
"The hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain."- Napoleon Bonaparte
"Dogs, would you live forever?"- Frederick the Great (addressing retreating Prussians at the Battle of Kolin)
Adam42
Skirmisher
posted 06-28-06 11:13 AM EDT (US)     4 / 160       
Longbowmen is the only one in need of a nerf, because they are the only one that beats or performs to well against it's counters.
Ferdinand Gwonch
Skirmisher
posted 06-28-06 11:13 AM EDT (US)     5 / 160       

Quote:

Streetlets

lol


OWN GOAL
Byronic Hero
Banned
posted 06-28-06 11:14 AM EDT (US)     6 / 160       
You're just mad because my lb/rocket combo would have owned you the other night.

But seriously LB's are not too op in age 2 because it requires the other player to gather wood in age 2, and alot of it. With 200 wood for 5 of them that means they are focusing on wood instead of gold so you can go to fort while they are in col.Or you could just mass hussars.

KingSteve3721
Skirmisher
posted 06-28-06 11:17 AM EDT (US)     7 / 160       

Quote:

You're just mad because my lb/rocket combo would have owned you the other night.

actually lbows have pissed me off waaay before that.


[FeaR]{KingSteve3721}
“I love my name of honor, more than I fear death.”- Julius Caesar
"The Pope! How many divisions has he got?"- Joseph Stalin
"The hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain."- Napoleon Bonaparte
"Dogs, would you live forever?"- Frederick the Great (addressing retreating Prussians at the Battle of Kolin)
Real2002
Skirmisher
posted 06-28-06 11:17 AM EDT (US)     8 / 160       
Lbows perhaps need a .8x bonus against artillery, that's about it. Massed lbows take out artillery too easily. As for Cav, it just needs a boost. Melee cav is pretty poor for its cost...

ESO: Steel_Reign

*Doles out the harshness*

Zaphod the Brave
Skirmisher
posted 06-28-06 11:18 AM EDT (US)     9 / 160       
nah, no nerf.

Strelets are one of the reasons why Russians are competitive right now. If they are nerfed, balance gets all wacked out. As for LBs, I agree with Byronic Hero


Abus Guns, well, they are just Abus Guns, maybe they should get a small range nerf, but they do not need it.


this space for rent
TOO_Saruman
Skirmisher
posted 06-28-06 11:21 AM EDT (US)     10 / 160       
Longbowmen are the only ones we should even CONSIDER nerfing.

ESO: empirejoao3
Clan:Proud
"You know the world is going crazy when the best golfer in the world is black, the best rapper is white, and the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese" LOL!!!
LO12DS_Mist
Skirmisher
posted 06-28-06 11:24 AM EDT (US)     11 / 160       

Quote:

Lbows perhaps need a .8x bonus against artillery, that's about it. Massed lbows take out artillery too easily. As for Cav, it just needs a boost. Melee cav is pretty poor for its cost...

Garbage. If you're talking about 50 lbows vs 2 falcs, obviously, because 50 lbows cost a lot more...lol

Artillery cost-effectively beat longbows. Slaughter them, actually.


I am Rumour Kontrol.
Angel Walker
Skirmisher
(id: Just a player)
posted 06-28-06 11:33 AM EDT (US)     12 / 160       
Neither of them need a nerf imo. But Strelets are great!

Check the 7th reply


ESO - Walker

>> Napoleonic Era --> Visit their Homepage!
"Holy *****" > Thunder (Ensemble Studios)

Retired from AoE3. But I do play AoK HD in Steam now and then.

[This message has been edited by Just a player (edited 06-28-2006 @ 11:36 AM).]

KingSteve3721
Skirmisher
posted 06-28-06 11:42 AM EDT (US)     13 / 160       
2nd best post ever walker

and when did strelets get hats? wtf? mine dont have hats...


[FeaR]{KingSteve3721}
“I love my name of honor, more than I fear death.”- Julius Caesar
"The Pope! How many divisions has he got?"- Joseph Stalin
"The hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain."- Napoleon Bonaparte
"Dogs, would you live forever?"- Frederick the Great (addressing retreating Prussians at the Battle of Kolin)
Chimp With A Gun
Skirmisher
posted 06-28-06 11:59 AM EDT (US)     14 / 160       
No one touches my longbows, if anything they need to have a x2 agenst infantry.

Chimp with a gun
AKA
Desert fox
WAR DOESN'T DETERMINE WHO'S RIGHT,
ONLY WHO'S LEFT
Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 06-28-06 12:00 PM EDT (US)     15 / 160       
Longbows are not overpowred unless they are massed. Once they reach critical mass, pretty much nothing can kill 'em aside from mass artillery (which is difficult and vulnerable).

And if people think that improving melee cav will help, they're deluding themselves. Think of the Lancer. It has 350 HP (same as a Veteran Hussar), it has 30% ranged resistance (3x that of a Hussar), it costs the same 200 resources as the Hussar, so you couldn't mass more Hussars than Lancers ... and yet Lancers lose to mass Longbows, badly.

Longbows need atleast a 0.75x multiplier against melee Cavalry.

Abus Guns get their 0.5x multiplier vs cavalry. Without which they would slaughter even melee cavalry. Longbows should have the same penalty too.



"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
Angel Walker
Skirmisher
(id: Just a player)
posted 06-28-06 12:02 PM EDT (US)     16 / 160       

Quote:

And if people think that improving melee cav will help, they're deluding themselves. Think of the Lancer. It has 350 HP (same as a Veteran Hussar), it has 30% ranged resistance (3x that of a Hussar), it costs the same 200 resources as the Hussar, so you couldn't mass more Hussars than Lancers ... and yet Lancers lose to mass Longbows, badly.

20 Lancers > 40 lbows. You can include micro if you want.


ESO - Walker

>> Napoleonic Era --> Visit their Homepage!
"Holy *****" > Thunder (Ensemble Studios)

Retired from AoE3. But I do play AoK HD in Steam now and then.
Chimp With A Gun
Skirmisher
posted 06-28-06 12:20 PM EDT (US)     17 / 160       
Lancers x4 agenst infantry x5 agenst heavy infantry

Chimp with a gun
AKA
Desert fox
WAR DOESN'T DETERMINE WHO'S RIGHT,
ONLY WHO'S LEFT
synch
Skirmisher
posted 06-28-06 12:27 PM EDT (US)     18 / 160       
The only reason strelets are mentioned is because Russia is OP in age two, remember when the game first came out, low hcs, no FF had been done yet? It was otto, russia, and france, france got nerfed, and otto and russia sucked after people discovered the FF.

No, they shouldn't be nerfed because FF rox all their boxers.

Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 06-28-06 12:38 PM EDT (US)     19 / 160       

Quote:


20 Lancers > 40 lbows. You can include micro if you want.

Only in your idealised editor tests. By the way, make that 15 Lancers + other forces vs 50 Longbows + other supporting forces, the more realistic matchup to actually take place in a game.

Also, because of how crappy melee cav pathfinding AI is in AoE3, 8 Falconets (4000 res) > 20 Lancers (4000 res) when it comes to fighting 40-50 Longbows.
Trouble is, the Brit economy gets WAY better than Spanish very quickly. One may not have anywhere close to 8 Falconets by the time the Brit has 50 Longbows.



"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."

[This message has been edited by Ender_Ward (edited 06-28-2006 @ 12:41 PM).]

synch
Skirmisher
posted 06-28-06 12:54 PM EDT (US)     20 / 160       
How do I quote a whole post by clikcing a button?

Ender, that's why Spain get's worse and worse as their fast shipments run out.

Byronic Hero
Banned
posted 06-28-06 01:17 PM EDT (US)     21 / 160       
Just highlight the entire thing then copy and paste and put it in bbcode quotes.
Real2002
Skirmisher
posted 06-28-06 01:28 PM EDT (US)     22 / 160       

Quote:

Garbage. If you're talking about 50 lbows vs 2 falcs, obviously, because 50 lbows cost a lot more...lol

Agree. It's not something I would actually want. But any other nerf would put British on the bottom of the pile. People that call them OP let too many of them get built up.


ESO: Steel_Reign

*Doles out the harshness*

Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 06-28-06 02:02 PM EDT (US)     23 / 160       

Quote:


People that call them OP let too many of them get built up.

It's not exactly easy to stop a build up from a Brit who can turtle well.


"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
Chimp With A Gun
Skirmisher
posted 06-28-06 02:34 PM EDT (US)     24 / 160       
Longbows are good keep them

but abus guns need to be considered infantry or artillary not abstract infantry, that pisses me off orpinicks don't get bonus or culvers or war wagons or dragoons nothing gets a times bonus agenst them.


Chimp with a gun
AKA
Desert fox
WAR DOESN'T DETERMINE WHO'S RIGHT,
ONLY WHO'S LEFT
LO12DS_Mist
Skirmisher
posted 06-28-06 02:55 PM EDT (US)     25 / 160       

Quote:

Agree. It's not something I would actually want. But any other nerf would put British on the bottom of the pile. People that call them OP let too many of them get built up.

Longbows are fine vs artillery, artillery beats them effectively.

Longbows do need an attack penalty against cavalry, however.


I am Rumour Kontrol.
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