You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

General Discussions
Moderated by Maffia, LordKivlov, JimXIX

Hop to:    
Welcome! You are not logged in. Please Login or Register.34 replies, Closed
Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » Ender Ward (Spain) vs LO12DS_Mist (Ottoman) on Texas:
Bottom
Topic Subject:Ender Ward (Spain) vs LO12DS_Mist (Ottoman) on Texas:
« Previous Page  1 2  Next Page »
Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 07-06-06 02:01 PM EDT (US)         
For all you Mist "fans".

Quoted from Ender_Ward:


But I'm sure you would've done better than a 2150 player, Mist (/sarcasm).

Quoted from LO12DS_Mist:


Try me.

Theory versus reality.

Game replay

NOTE: it got kinda laggy (which for me is unusual), but affected both sides.


"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
AuthorReplies:
synch
Skirmisher
posted 07-06-06 09:04 PM EDT (US)     26 / 34       
Tbh Mist, you liked like ..............

You know what counters dragoons? ...... wait for it...


Janissaries..

You don't need spahi to counter cannons, abus are good enough.

Jans/Abus counter a lot of combos..

Ottos suck mid game, that's why I don't ff unless I fish boom also, I reject middle game and substitute it with late game.(FI)

[This message has been edited by synch (edited 07-06-2006 @ 09:08 PM).]

LO12DS_Mist
Skirmisher
posted 07-06-06 10:01 PM EDT (US)     27 / 34       

Quote:

You don't use Spahi on civs with Dragoons and War Wagons. You build Abus Guns to deal with Falconets. As it was, your Spahi killed one villager. One.

So that means you don't use spahi against anyone but Russians, Dutch, and Ottoman mirrors?

Quote:

You claimed you would do better than a 2150 Ottoman and offered to prove it.

I did, didn't I? I lasted longer than he did. I resigned at 22:44, he at 18:31, not to mention that he probably squandered his chance at winning by not researching the church tech.

There's no other way to gauge how well I did unless I won. Of course, then it would be obvious I did better.

Quote:

You claimed you would do better than a 2150 Ottoman and offered to prove it. I wasn't about to let you have an easy way out when you suddently wanted to play Russians instead.

I did do better than him.

I might have lost, but that doesn't mean I performed worse.

Quote:

Manchu were a waste of gold. You don't build Manchu to deal with Lancers, you build Janissaries, lot of Janissaries (with maybe a few Cav Archers for effect, to soak Skirmisher fire). The idea is to save most of your gold for Abus Guns.

You build lots of Abus Guns and Jans versus Dragoons, they are your only hope. Manchu don't do crap to Dragoons. Spending 1000 gold on +10 Abus Guns would've helped alot more than 9 Manchu. They even kill Lancers too slowly. On the other hand, get 20 Abus Guns (18, actually) in a group and they one shot kill a Lancer.

That aside, you should never have sent Manchu for the simple reason that my deck contained Swiss Pikes and Highlanders.

Yeah, I'm going to shoot lancers with abus guns. I'd rather take out the skirms so my jans aren't targetted.

The manchu never were touched by the highlanders, and the swiss pikes were mostly dead when they got in the fight, so only 1 pike actually did anything to the manchu (and died shortly after) The manchu were there to distract skirmisher fire (YAY SOME MERCS) and kill lancers/dragoons. I've found manchu fare better against dragoons than janissaries or abus guns, by far.

Quote:

You must not realise I meant the Advanced Church techs card, not the cheaper church techs card. Otherwise you'd be making one of the n00biest statements I've read in some time.

But speaking of the cheaper church techs card ... you boom with 3 TCs a not use it? It's in nearly all my Ottoman FF and FI decks. Infact it's an intergral part of the church FI. Most useless card in the game my arse.

I'm not that stupid.

It is the worst unique church shipment in the game, since all it gives you is 15 janissaries for 1000 wood and 3 bombards for 1500 food, correct?

So really, you get one thing in age 3, and thats 15 janissaries. Whoop-dee-doo, I get 15 janissaries. Compare to other civs, who get mercs for their resources, or besteiros for Ports, souped-up grenadiers for French, all-veteran and guard upgrades, kalmucks, etc.

Whats the point of sending it as Ottomans if all you get is 15 jans for 1000 wood?

As for the cheaper church tech, thats useless too. In fact, its even more useless. You save 333 wood off 15 jans, and thats IF you sent the unique church shipment as well, then you get 100 food off millet system, 170 off the next tech in line, and 270 off the one after that. Then, you get 130 coin off the first vil cap upgrade, and 130/130 off the next one...not sure the last one though.

In all, if you also use the bombard tech, you save a total of 2300 resources. BUT, you have to spend 4355 resources to get that. Usually all I get is millet system, the tech after that, and the first two vil cap upgrades. IF the game goes further on, I get the last cap upgrade. So, I save little. Plus, you don't save it all at once, unlike a resource shipment, you get it in small increments.

Quote:

One's decks shouldn't be nearly all the same. Decks need to be fine tuned to the map and civ. In your case, you had an even greater advantage, you could've picked a deck that was also fine tuned to the player (me).

I don't have much card choice. Some of the cards are essential, like 3 vils, 700 coin, etc. Once you get all those out of the way, you get into the ones you'll probably need, and finally you have about 5 spaces left for customization.

Quote:

That must be one of the most asinine excuses I've read. You have no use for 2 Falconets or 8 Janissaries in team games now? Ooookay ...

You had 46 levels to pick those cards. The fact that you did not, speaks volumes.

Since you've played barely any team games, I'm not surprised that you don't know this. Team games are not about fortress cards, its all colonial warfare, especially for Ottomans. Once you get into fort, you'd best be off sending resource or defensive shipments, because you need to ramp up your economy as well as military, not go into a shipment war.

Quote:

P.S.
Another one of your brilliant moves was to build a Commanche trade post for some reason and then actually attempt to train Commanche Horse Archers (good thing you stopped at 4), which are even worse than Cav Archers.
I would understand if it was Lakota (Dog Soldiers), but Commanche? *shakes head*

I've used comanche against some Port players massing jinetes. They have a higher attack than cav archers and serve as distraction.

I had some surplus wood, and the cheaper coin tech is always nice.


I am Rumour Kontrol.
Jargobae
Skirmisher
posted 07-06-06 10:47 PM EDT (US)     28 / 34       
too much ego in this thread

Babbled's Rules of AOE

1) As Spanish never play against Ottomans
2) As Ottomans never play against the Portugese
3) As Portugese never play against the Spanish
4) Never play against the Germans

Brtnboarder495
Skirmisher
posted 07-06-06 10:51 PM EDT (US)     29 / 34       

Quote:

I might have lost, but that doesn't mean I performed worse.

>_>


Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 07-07-06 00:36 AM EDT (US)     30 / 34       

Quoted from Jargobae:


too much ego in this thread

*shrug*

Well I'm sorry, but when I found out that Mist was arguing with everybody and their grandmother on this forum about how they're wrong, yet was rated below 1900, I jumped at the chance to play him and see where he's really at.
Forgive me for posting it then, because I was certain there will be quite a few individuals that would enjoy watching people put their money where their mouth is.

I've played a bunch of other people on this forum too, lately, but don't advertise it (except for that game with Somme, but it was held to prove a point). Mist was a "special" occasion.

~~~

Quoted from Mist:


So that means you don't use spahi against anyone but Russians, Dutch, and Ottoman mirrors?

No, it means you only use Spahi in a FI once they're auto-upgraded to Guard and you have excellent means to kill their counters. Ottoman FF is WEAK. It only kills the Dutch and Russians because those are even weaker.

Quoted from Mist:


I'm not that stupid.

It is the worst unique church shipment in the game, since all it gives you is 15 janissaries for 1000 wood and 3 bombards for 1500 food, correct?

*jaw drops*

Apparently you haven't heard of the Ottoman church FI. That's sad. That card is all about SPEED.

Quoted from Mist:


As for the cheaper church tech, thats useless too.

It reduces the cost of the 15 Jans to 660 wood. It reduces the cost of 3 Great Bombards to 1000 food. It too is all about SPEED.
And you should check out how it works on the villager cap and villager train speed techs. It doesn't reduce each tech by 33% like stated. It reduces some less, but some more, alot more. But those are icing on the cake, and it's not the primary reason why you use it in a FI.

Thanks to these two cards, Ottomans are the ONLY civ that can have 5 heavy artillery peices (Great Bombards), 3 Guard Spahi and 15 Jans before 11 minutes.

How you missed the church FI strat/thread I don't know, considering that you argue in every other thread ...


Quoted from Mist:


Since you've played barely any team games, I'm not surprised that you don't know this. Team games are not about fortress cards, its all colonial warfare, especially for Ottomans. Once you get into fort, you'd best be off sending resource or defensive shipments, because you need to ramp up your economy as well as military, not go into a shipment war.

I may not have played many team games, but I've watched players a hell of alot better than you in team games. Nearly all had the 2 Falconet card if their civ allowed it. Nearly all had the 8 Jan card or it's equivalent. But I suppose this is another "Mist theory #274645".

Quoted from Mist:


Yeah, I'm going to shoot lancers with abus guns. I'd rather take out the skirms so my jans aren't targetted.

If you had more experience with Ottomans you'd realise how dangerous mass Abus, with a decent Jan screen, are to Lancers. Before the Lancers can even maneuver around the Jans, many of them will die to the Abus' fire. Try it next game you play versus a Spanish with your Ottomans.
It's not the same as having 40-50 Longbows firing on Lancers, ofcourse, but it's stil quite effective.

Quoted from Mist:


The manchu never were touched by the highlanders, and the swiss pikes were mostly dead when they got in the fight, so only 1 pike actually did anything to the manchu (and died shortly after)

You need to watch the game again. It was specifically the Highlanders that killed most of your Manchu. The Swiss Pikes (who actually took a while to die) and Dragoons only helped. Besides they were mostly going to the Abus Guns to pincer them between themselves and the Lancers (which worked). And by the way, that lone survivor Swiss Pike actually lived and went on to attack your Commanche trade post.
However your Manchu died all but one (which was critically hurt), without killing many Lancers.
They truly are a waste of gold. Help yourself and just build more Jans and Abus.

Quoted from mist:


I've found manchu fare better against dragoons than janissaries or abus guns, by far.

Look, if you're going to tie one hand behind your back when you play because of ideas like this ... you'll keep losing 150 points in a week.

Quoted from Mist:


They have a higher attack than cav archers and serve as distraction.

They are worse than the Cav Archer in nearly every way (only matches in attack). Especially in hitpoints. They also don't auto-upgrade to Veteran like Cav Archers. And to add insult to injury, their cost is simply atrocious. The funny thing is that both units are pretty horrible. It's like picking between getting boiled in oil or being set on fire. Either way, the results will be less than desirable.



"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."

[This message has been edited by Ender_Ward (edited 07-07-2006 @ 00:39 AM).]

Adam42
Skirmisher
posted 07-07-06 03:03 AM EDT (US)     31 / 34       

Quote:

Heh, it seems that Saruman is now running from me, ever sinced he resigned before the two minute mark in the QS match. Are you scared or something? I'd love to play you, especially after you called me "the fag from HG"

Put your money where your mouth is.

I remember getting you on QS a while ago too, and you resigned straight away with no word, so I wouldn't complain about someone else doing it if I were you.

Liscious
Skirmisher
posted 07-07-06 09:27 AM EDT (US)     32 / 34       
I also get tired of hearing all these noobs trying argue with experts.

Mist's on-paper erronious arguments dont hold up in reality. It would be nice if all these low ranked know-it-all players actually learned how to play instead of trying to tell experts what is.

LO12DS_Mist
Skirmisher
posted 07-07-06 10:15 AM EDT (US)     33 / 34       

Quote:

Mist's on-paper erronious arguments dont hold up in reality.

Right...thats why I lasted 4 minutes longer than a 2150.

Quote:

low ranked

I was 2k last week.

After the bout of dragoon-spamming from Ports, French, and Brit players (lbows+dragoons) I've lost almost 200 points on cuetech.

In fact, I think it was just last month that I was 2050.


I am Rumour Kontrol.
Takk
Skirmisher
(id: Luke_Feanor)
posted 07-07-06 11:04 AM EDT (US)     34 / 34       
Thread degenerated into "let's bash Mist". Please keep it civil.

- Closed


Lucas is boss.
« Previous Page  1 2  Next Page »
You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Hop to:    

Age of Empires III Heaven | HeavenGames