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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » Ports left in the dust. For ever.
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Topic Subject:Ports left in the dust. For ever.
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N_E_Patriots
Skirmisher
posted 10-16-06 10:29 PM EDT (US)         
I know there are a lot of people mentioning ports in other threads but im just here to see if anyone else feels that ports have been abandoned as a civ. ES did many things to help the dutch and russians and just left the ports in the dust. THey were pretty good for a while until they nerfed TC, damage, dragoons and made it harder to do a FF. Poor Ports

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AuthorReplies:
LordKivlov
Royal Guard
posted 10-17-06 00:44 AM EDT (US)     1 / 29       
+6 range on dragoons, +10 range on mortars, 20% dragoon combat card.

They got some lovin too.

TarsTarkas
Skirmisher
posted 10-17-06 00:49 AM EDT (US)     2 / 29       
Yeah, they got some nice boosts and additions... but everything is in Fortress or Industrial!!!

The Portuguese have always been one of the strongest civs in Industrial, and their only problem in Fortress was no artillery. They didnt get the boost where it actually would have helped them (alot) - colonial. And with colonial fighting even more prevalent in the Warchiefs, I feel sorry for Portugal.


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Dieneces
Skirmisher
posted 10-17-06 02:49 AM EDT (US)     3 / 29       
Hey, they can still get Petards in Age 3... correct? I know their Colonial is quite tosh but if they hold off long another (as per usual) the Petards could actually help.

In any case, I'm still going to play them the most out of the original civs. Though Russia continues to tempt.


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Stophon4
Skirmisher
posted 10-17-06 08:24 AM EDT (US)     4 / 29       
Just because players dont play a civ as much, doesn't mean that civ is UP.

Maybe they just thinks it boring or not as much fun.


"Dutch are OP!"
"Iriquois are OP!"
"Stophon is OP!"

tEk Clan #1 US Clan
Gato
Skirmisher
(id: GatoFedorento)
posted 10-17-06 08:28 AM EDT (US)     5 / 29       
Playing Ports is just for professionals :P

Long live early music.
MNBob
Skirmisher
posted 10-17-06 08:54 AM EDT (US)     6 / 29       
EDIT: for being too harsh

Just because a handful of players can make Ports work does not mean the civ does not have some serious problems.


Abus Guns and Grenadiers ARE NOT ARTILLERY!
MNBob's AOE Page

[This message has been edited by MNBob (edited 10-17-2006 @ 09:33 AM).]

Gomezd
Skirmisher
posted 10-17-06 09:05 AM EDT (US)     7 / 29       
Not even, I just think he likes the civ and is simply defending it.

However I do have several problems with ports I cant seem to win a game with port that last less than 45mins.

If I rush it gets pushed back and I end up lagging behind my opponent trying to catch up, with multiple TC I catch up..... after a loooong time, bad idea.

Lets fish boom then, yay sooo much resources but wait I cant seem to win because I cant take down that fort/towers/tc -_-.

It always seems to boil down to getting to Industrial and spaming HC with musks.

Any one has similar experiences?

Stophon just curious as to how you do play ports? do your games usually last pretty long as well tho?

Mokon
Skirmisher
posted 10-17-06 09:30 AM EDT (US)     8 / 29       
I agree with Stophon... ports really are fine. They are a late game civ and I dont think many people like that style so... But anyhow if used right they can do just fine.

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  • MNBob
    Skirmisher
    posted 10-17-06 09:36 AM EDT (US)     9 / 29       
    They are a late game civ only in the hands of very, very good players. The fact that they can only really be played one way is one of the things that makes them weak and undesirable to play.

    Abus Guns and Grenadiers ARE NOT ARTILLERY!
    MNBob's AOE Page
    Gato
    Skirmisher
    (id: GatoFedorento)
    posted 10-17-06 10:06 AM EDT (US)     10 / 29       
    The civ DOES have serious problems... that's why I say that it's only for pros... Only pros can "handle" those problems...

    Long live early music.
    Zeal_Love
    Skirmisher
    posted 10-17-06 01:23 PM EDT (US)     11 / 29       
    Ports haven't been abandoned by ES, they have been abandoned by the players. They're a perfectly fine civ, sure they're not spain, but only spain is. Ports easily counter russia for example. Ports being bad is a selffullfilling prophecy, since so few people play them few good strats become known. I guess this is especially a problem for newbies who rely on other peoples' strats instead of comming up with their own.

    ESO2 : Love_

    [This message has been edited by Zeal_Love (edited 10-17-2006 @ 01:26 PM).]

    Angel Walker
    Skirmisher
    (id: Just a player)
    posted 10-17-06 03:05 PM EDT (US)     12 / 29       

    Quote:

    Ports left in the dust. For ever.

    I knew that since 1.0... Like Dutch.

    Quote:

    Playing Ports is just for professionals :P

    Nah. If you know how to build 2 Docks and send Schooners its already halfway through mastering it

    Quote:

    The fact that they can only really be played one way is one of the things that makes them weak and undesirable to play.

    100% agree.

    Quote:

    Ports haven't been abandoned by ES, they have been abandoned by the players.

    Such beautiful, but sad words. Though that is also an advantage - the less people plays Portugal, the less know how to counter them

    Elmetis, trainable Ronins and Petards fills basically everything Portugal needs.


    ESO - Walker

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    zion_CDawg
    Skirmisher
    posted 10-17-06 03:44 PM EDT (US)     13 / 29       
    I don't think they've been helped a lot with TWC.
    Not enough anyways, particularly in colonial - my idea for boost in colonial would be a cheap musketeers age 2 card... making musketeers cost less food - say about 55,60, with same gold (25). This would help in the shorter game, and a little with a musket rush (which is the only practical rush with ports)
    I've spent far more time with ports than anything else, and while I'm not an expert with them, I can win a wide range of games against any civ, particularly in 4/6/8 player games. 1v1 is very difficult if your opponent is a half decent rusher.
    Uncle_Joe
    Skirmisher
    posted 10-17-06 03:58 PM EDT (US)     14 / 29       

    Quote:

    Just because a handful of players can make Ports work does not mean the civ does not have some serious problems.

    This seems to be similar to how Spain is supposedly OP. Really only at the highest levels does Spain 'dominate'. Your average player gains very little advantage from being Spain. Even in 1.08/1.09, Spain has a terrible win percentage, indicating that the majority of the players obviously dont find them OP.

    Yet everyone whines about how OP Spain is when in reality only the top players win consistantly with them because only the top players can really maximize their ability to FF through most rushes.

    So should they nerf Spain just because the top players win with them and despite the fact that the average player loses with them? Its the same thing with Portugal. If they boost them, then top player will dominate with them because at the moment top players can use them and hold their own.

    MNBob
    Skirmisher
    posted 10-17-06 04:04 PM EDT (US)     15 / 29       
    Big difference though because I don't think you can point to any top players who are dominating with Portugal.

    Abus Guns and Grenadiers ARE NOT ARTILLERY!
    MNBob's AOE Page
    zion_CDawg
    Skirmisher
    posted 10-17-06 04:23 PM EDT (US)     16 / 29       
    Here is one that I know: General_Nuisance
    Uncle_Joe
    Skirmisher
    posted 10-17-06 05:42 PM EDT (US)     17 / 29       

    Quote:

    Big difference though because I don't think you can point to any top players who are dominating with Portugal.

    Likely not, but that because Portugal is balanced at their level. So, the top players will tend to play the OP civs rather than a 'balanced' one. Also, Portugual's play style is such that the top players dont like it...boom and fight later for the most part. Between the two, Portugal is rarely played at the top levels now.

    If they boosted Portugal so that the average player would win with them, then at the top levels they'd be OP. Again, this is just the reverse of the Spanish situation. If they nerf Spain so they arent potentially OP at the top levels, then the average player would have no chance with them (and indeed, average player already lose with Spain more than any other Civ).

    George_uk
    Skirmisher
    posted 10-17-06 06:28 PM EDT (US)     18 / 29       
    I remember in 1.06-07 everyone was saying that ports are basically the next OP civ after Germans. How times change.

    Previously known as MoNo Ager
    dejanh
    Skirmisher
    posted 10-17-06 07:51 PM EDT (US)     19 / 29       
    I played a few games with ports in the last few weeks, and IMO they are just fine. You can be aggressive with them from the start and you barely have to worry about being rushed since you get the two TCs. I think players just automatically assume that Ports suck so they do not know how to play them really. Once in fortress they are perfectly fine. Lots of anti-art like culverin, hussar, goon, good muskets and good skirmisher. You don't need falcs to siege. More often than not I do not even use falcs to siege unless the game drags out and there are a gazillion buildings to destroy.

    Oh and...

    Quote:

    If they nerf Spain so they arent potentially OP at the top levels, then the average player would have no chance with them (and indeed, average player already lose with Spain more than any other Civ).

    What? People lose with Spain?! I mean of course they lose, hehe, but it is not easy to beat Spain at all. Maybe if you really do not know how to play, but then Spain or Port or Dutch nothing can help you. What other civ gets so many shipments. You can pretty much ship your way to victory with Spanish in any age up to industrial.


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    [This message has been edited by dejanh (edited 10-17-2006 @ 07:55 PM).]

    Y3AH
    Skirmisher
    posted 10-17-06 07:55 PM EDT (US)     20 / 29       
    Isn't Love_ playing Ports nowadays?
    Turk Janissary
    Skirmisher
    posted 10-18-06 07:15 AM EDT (US)     21 / 29       
    it is not a sure thing but if you put your TC toghether and have colonial militia and for example put your fort next to your town and turtle you can get to industrial age easy if you have the right resouurce cards however i think that a little bonus in the beginning should be applied like other civs have

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    Stophon4
    Skirmisher
    posted 10-18-06 07:48 AM EDT (US)     22 / 29       

    Quote:

    The fact that they can only really be played one way is one of the things that makes them weak and undesirable to play.

    Absolutely not true.

    You can play them many different and effective ways.

    You can be agressive with tcs and go quick FF, fight in t2 and boom, turtle, lots of options, no less than any other civ.

    Ports have options in age 3, besterios, organ guns and ronin/mam are just to name a few.


    "Dutch are OP!"
    "Iriquois are OP!"
    "Stophon is OP!"

    tEk Clan #1 US Clan
    MNBob
    Skirmisher
    posted 10-18-06 09:07 AM EDT (US)     23 / 29       
    Please post some recordings where you beat lots of good players using all of these different port strategies.

    EDIT: This is a serious request. I look for Port replays and most are either team games or port losses.


    Abus Guns and Grenadiers ARE NOT ARTILLERY!
    MNBob's AOE Page

    [This message has been edited by MNBob (edited 10-18-2006 @ 10:03 AM).]

    blackieinape3
    Banned
    posted 10-18-06 10:53 AM EDT (US)     24 / 29       
    Ports are pretty good at everything I think. Organ guns own almost everything. My partner absolutely booms out of there mind when we play 2v2. Most of the time while I am French, I get my ace kicked and expect it. So I hold them off as long as I can while he saves my neck going age 3. He sends organ guns and ronins and owns there army. By then, he is so far ahead of them Financially, is GG. Feeds me to go age 3 and I have my Cav, its a GG. Ask Kemical Supreme for good tips on Ports. So far, I havent seen anyone use them better!
    MNBob
    Skirmisher
    posted 10-18-06 11:03 AM EDT (US)     25 / 29       
    Ports in team games is much different than ports in 1v1.

    Abus Guns and Grenadiers ARE NOT ARTILLERY!
    MNBob's AOE Page
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