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Topic Subject: Gathering Guide!
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posted 11-27-06 06:12 PM EDT (US)   
Well I Decided to do something about questions concerning villager seconds (VS), and gathering rates and ended up with this huge, yet helpful guide. It contains every single gathering unit in the game, and every single economical technology and home city card. By doing this I hope it will become easier than ever to calculate gathering rates, and overall gain some insight into how percentages and math come into play in every single one of your games Enjoy! Feel free to comment and ask questions.

Abstract Villagers


Native Villagers

Tree: .5
Mill: .67
Plantation: .5
Herdable: 1.25
Huntable: .84
Mine: .6
Berry Bush: .67
Crate: 8.0
Farm: .5

European Settlers

Tree: .5
Mill: .67
Plantation: .5
Herdable: 2.0
Huntable: .84
Mine: .6 (Dutch Settler: .69)
Berry Bush: .67
Crate: 8.0
Farm: .5


Tree: .62
Mill: .84
Plantation: .63
Herdable: 2.5
Huntable: 1.04
Mine: .74
Berry Bush: .83
Crate: 10.0
Farm: .62

Settler Wagons

Tree: 1.0
Mill: 1.34
Plantation: 1.0
Herdable: 4.0
Huntable: 1.7
Mine: 1.2
Berry Bush: 1.34
Crate: 15.0
Farm: 1.0


Gang Saw: Wood +10%
Log Flume: Wood +20%
Circular Saw: Wood +30%
Deforestation: Wood +50%
Hunting Dogs: Hunting +10%
Steel Traps: Hunting +20%
Placer Mines: Mine +10%
Amalgamation: Mine +20%
Excessive Taxation: Mine +50%, Plantation +50%
Seed Drill: Mill +15%, Farm +15%
Artificial Fertilizer: Mill +30%, Farm +30%
Large Scale Agriculture: Mill +50%, Farm +50%
Book Keeping: Plantation +10%
Home Steading: Plantation +20%
Ore Refining: Plantation +30%
Earth Gift Ceremony: Plantation +20%, Mine +20%
Lumber Cereomony: Wood +20%
Forest People Ceremony: Wood +20%
Forest Spirit Ceremony: Wood +20%
Great Feast: Hunting +10%, Berrybush +10%, Farm +10%, Mill +10%
Harvest Ceremony: Hunting +15%, Berrybush +15%, Farm +15%, Mill +15%
Green Corn Ceremony: Hunting +20%, Berrybush +20%, Farm +20%, Mill +20%
Large Scale Gathering: Mill +50%, Farm +50%, Hunting +50%
Earth Ceremony: Plantation +10%, Mine +10%
Excessive Tribute: Mine +50%, Plantation +50%
Chinampa: Mill +20%, Farm +20%
Metalworking: Mine +20%
Calendar: Mill +10%, Farm +10%, Hunting +10%
Aztec WiseWoman Age2: Plantation +10%, Farm +10%
Aztec WiseWoman Age3: Plantation +15%, Farm +15%
Aztec WiseWoman Age4: Plantation +20%, Farm +20%
Aztec WiseWoman Age5: Plantation +25%, Farm +25%
Sioux WiseWoman Age2: Hunting +10%
Sioux WiseWoman Age3: Hunting +20%
Sioux WiseWoman Age4: Hunting +30%
Sioux WiseWoman Age5: Hunting +40%
Zapotec Food of the Gods: Mill +10%, Plantation +10%, Berrybush +10%, Farm +10%
Klamath Work Ethos: Wood +5%, Hunting +5%, Mill +5%, Plantation +5%, Mine +5%, Berrybush +5%
Navajo Craftsmanship: Mine +20%, Plantation +20%

Home City Cards

Lumberyards: Wood +15%
Sawmills: Wood + 15%
Exotic Hardwoods: Wood + 20%
Royal Mint: Plantation +25%, Mine +25%
Cigar Roller: Plantation +20%
Rum Distillery: Plantation +20%
Iron Monger: Mine +20%
Silversmith: Mine +20%
Textile Mills: Plantation +25%
Food Silos: Mill +15%, Farm +15%
Sustainable Agriculture: Mill +15%, Farm +15%
Furrier: Hunting +15% , Berrybush +20%
Grain Market: Mill +20%, Farm +20%
Refrigeration: Mill +20%, Hunting +20%, Berrybush + 20%, Herdable + 20%, Farm +20%
Spice Trade: Hunting +20%, Berrybush +20%
Aztec Mining: Mine +40%
Chinampa1: Plantation +15%, Farm +15%, Mill +15%
Chinampa2: Plantation +20%, Farm +20%, Mill +20%
Great Hunter: Hunting +20%, Berrybush +20%
Woodcrafting: Wood +20%
Team Exotic Hardwoods: Wood +15%
Team Silversmith: Mine +10%
Team Food Silos: Mill +10%, Farm +15%
Team Furrier: Hunting +10%, Berrybush +15%
Team Sawmills: Wood +10%
Team Spice Trade: Hunting +10%, Berrybush +15%
Team Rum Distillery: Plantation +15%
Team Iron Monger: Mine +10%
Fulling Mills: Herdable +400%
Economic Theory: Hunting +10%, Berrybush +10%, Herdable +10%, Mine +10%, Wood +10%, Plantation +10$, Mill +10%, Farm +10%

Abstract Fishing Boats


Fishing Boats

Fish: .67
Whale: .5


Fish: .67
Whale: .5


Fish: .67
Whale: .5


Fish: .22
Whale .17

War Conoes

Fish: .22
Whale: .17

Tlaloc Canoes

Fish: .22
Whale: .17


Chinampa: Fish +20%, Whale +20%
Gill Nets: Fish +15%, Whale +15%
Long Lines: Fish +30%, Whale +30%
Excessive Taxation: Whale +50%
Excessive Tribute: Whale +50%
Huron Fish Wedding: Fish +20%, Whale +20%
Navajo Craftsmanship: Whale +20%
Economic Theory: Fish +10%, Whale +10%

Home City Cards

Fish Market: Fish +25%, Whale +25%
Rendering Plant: Fish +30%, Whale +30%
Team Fish Market: Fish +10%, Whale +10%
Whale Oil: Whale +35%
Economic Theory: Fish +10%, Whale +10%




Food: .2
Food at livestock pen: .5
Food at farm: .5


Food: .25
Food at livestock pen: 1.0
Food at farm: 1.0


Food: .3
Food at livestock pen: .75
Food at farm: .75


Selective Breeding: +25% Food Gather Speed from Livestock Pen, +25% Food Gather Speed from Farm
Large Scale Gathering: + 50% Food Gather Speed from Farm
Navajo Shepards: +200% Food Auto Gather Speed, +30% Food Gather Speed from Livestock Pen, +30% Food Gather Speed from Farm

Home City Cards

Stock Yards: Food Gather Speed from Livestock Pen +30%, Food Gather Speed from Farm +30%
Team Wool Staples: Food Gather Speed from Livestock Pen +30%, Food Gather Speed from Farm +30%

Now the explanation, here's an example. Say you want to find out how long it will take you to gather enough resources to train 5 musketeers as Britain with hunting dogs as your only economical upgrade.

In order to calculate how long it takes to gather a certain amount of resources over a certain amount of time, we will convert our resources to a universal unit in AoE3, the villager second (VS). A villager second stands for how many seconds it will take for a villager to gather a certain amount of resources. The beauty of VS is that your working with one unit, not the three different ones in AoE3. In order to find the VS required for a certain unit/building/ect., you simply divide the amount of resources, by it's respective gathering rate. It's important to use the respective gathering rate, because hunting for food gathers significantly faster than gathering wood. However, to make things more complicated, there are also economical upgrades and home city cards, which can be researched or shipped, to boost the gathering rate or resources. Since you will be using these in games, it's important to take the economical upgrades into account as well, since after boosting the gathering rate of wood, you can on longer use the standard rate of .5. I'll do my best to give an explanation below.

Britain settlers gather food at a rate at .84 when hunting, however since we have researched hunting dogs, that rate will be bumped up to 0.924 (10% = .1 as a decimal, add one to it and multiply it by the original rate, .84. This is how we will take all economic upgrades into account, simply convert the percentage to a decimal by removing the percent sign and moving the decimal two places to the left, and then add one. Then multiply this number by the standard gathering rate, to get your new gathering rate). So now we divide the food cost of musketeers, 75, by .924 (our new hunting rate), which equals 81.17. So it will take one villager, that many seconds to gather 75 food from hunting, which will allow us to train one musketeer. However, let's say we have 10 villagers hunting. In order to account for the fact we have 10 villagers, and not just one, we simply divide the food cost in VS (villager seconds) of a musketeer (81.17) by 10, to get 8.12 seconds. So with hunting dogs, the first hunting upgrade, and 10 villagers, it will take us 8.12 seconds to gather 75 food.

We all know that musketeers also require 25 coin to train along with 75 food. Again the same process, 25 divided by the standard gathering rate of coin for a British settler, .6. 25/.6 = 41.17. So it will take us 41.17 seconds to gather 25 coin, the amount of coin required to train one musketeer. However, remember we have five villagers gathering gold from a mine, not 1, so we shall divide 41.17 by 5, which equals 8.334. So with 5 villagers gathering from a gold mine, it will take us 8.334 seconds to gather enough gold to train on musketeer.

Now because we need the food and gold at the same time to train a musketeer, you obviously want the required times to gather the resources to be as close as possible. And look at our results, they are both very near 8 seconds! This is an ideal setup because that means that we are gathering the required resources to train musketeers , and no extra resources. Remember, any resources not being used, are a waste!

Lastly, if you remember what I said in the beginning, it was that we want to train 5 musketeers (since ideally you always want to be training units in groups of 5, and no less, so that you get as many units out as possible per batch and can remain competitive in game). Well, since we have the required gathering time for resources for 1 musketeer, we simply multiply that number (~8 seconds) by 5, to get our time of 40 seconds. So, to train 5 muskteers with 10 villagers on hunting with hunting dogs, and 5 villagers mining coin,we will need 40 seconds. The advantage of training units in AoE3 and the block system, is that you can begin training units with just enough resources for one unit, and then add others after. However, since muskteers take 30 seconds to train, we will unfortunetly only be able to train 3 (3*8=24), or maybe 4 if our economical micro is good . Of course the easiest way to grind down those required times is to produce more villagers, and upgrade your economy. Always try to match the required time to gather the necessary resources for a batch of 5 units, with the training time of that unit. That way you can have units always pouring out, without having too many villagers on a certain resource, creating excess resources.

I hope that you learned something from reading this article, because it took a long time to put together It really does show how important of a role math plays in this game though, and with some practice with the villager optimization of certain units, you can certainly improve your skill to another level. If you have any other questions, comments, concerns, or typos/mistakes in the data or guide, please feel free to post it here or PM me on All_FaLLz_DoWn on ESO

Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_

[This message has been edited by Brtnboarder495 (edited 03-19-2007 @ 06:08 PM).]

posted 01-29-07 02:41 AM EDT (US)     26 / 33  



Food: .3
Food at livestock pen: .75
Food at farm: 1.0

An intriguing hidden bonus there for natives, offset by natives collecting herdables slower. So ideally in a team game you'd build a farm in an euro's base and let him gather the llamas.

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posted 01-29-07 03:16 PM EDT (US)     27 / 33  
^As Cyclo pointed out, I was wrong, I made a typo.

Cyclo! Sorry it took so long I completely forgot and became busy. Anyway ...


1.) Are you sure that European settlers on Native allies farms gather at the same rates (0.5) and natives on European allies Milles gather at 0.67? I looked through the proto file and cannot find the information for the regular settler (0.5), Coureur (0.62 which is ~ +25%), and Settler Wagon (1.00 which is +200%).

European Settlers and Native Villagers are two completely different units as far as unit classifications are concerned. However, they are identical in gather rates besides that Native Villagers gather from herdables at a rate of 1.25 instead of the European Settler's rate of 2.0. This was done on purpose to prevent a native civ from gathering many herdables and being able to use their faster fattening farms for an insanely fast food source early on.

Farms and Mills are TWO different buildings as well. Farms are the equivalent of mills except the main reason for their initial food rate being so low is that they double as a fattening pen for herdables (which works faster than the Euro fattening pen!). Thankfully, the initial farm tech is pretty cheap and brings the farming rate pretty close to the standard mill rate, along with the hunting, berrybush.


2.) Are you sure that the Llama Livestock Farm fattening rate is higher on Farms (1.0) than on Mills (0.75)? I could not find any information for herding in the proto for the farm either. I’m not sure if you have looked at it thoroughly yet, but my guide has a worksheet, Resource Rate Herdables which explains and calculates these for the livestock pin. If so, this must be a bug since the farm and livestock pens fatten at the same rate on sheep and cows. Otherwise, it is definitely beneficial to send llama to the Farm, and not the Mills. I did the calculation and the difference between a farm and Mill llama fattening is 64 seconds with no other upgrades.

For example, if an Iroquois uses the starting Travois as a Farm, finds 4 Llama on Pampas (reasonable), in 269 seconds (not including time to walk to farm) they will be completely fattened (with no farm upgrades). This is 1,600 quickly gathered food (not including decay rate). It would take a European with Livestock Pen 333 seconds. Not a strong strategy, but I’m sure it has its uses in certain styles of play (treaty for example).

You mean between a farm and livestock pen, right? Because no fattening occurs when you send a herdable to a mill

To answer your immeadiate question, you were right! The gathering rates are both .75, thanks for catching that


3.) In your example:

Please tell me the whale gather rate on my fishing boats when I have Rendering plant, fish market and whale oil. :P
30%+25%+35% = 90% = .9, +1 = 1.9 * .5 = .95
So .95 Coin per second, I'm guessing you'd also research the dock techs too right? If so, that bumps it too 1.175 Coin per second.

I agree with the 0.95, but believe the correct answer with the dock techs is 30% + 25% + 35% + 15% (gill nets) + 20% (long lines) = 125% = 1.25, +1 = 2.25 * 0.5 (whale gathering rate) = 1.125 coin / second. Is this a typo or is there something fundamentally I am missing?

Once again you are correct, I missed the second dock tech I believe


4.) On the Klamath Work Ethos technology, do they intentionally skip +5% Farm increase. It lists the food increase for everything else, including mills, but no farms.

I just checked over the techtree, and suprisingly, it is NOT included! This should be considered a glitch IMO, ES should be notified! Again, nice find!


You forgot the Mayan Calendar (Farm +10%, Hunting +10%, Mill +10%) and Incas Metalworking (+20% Mine) technologies on your list. By the way, I will be updating my guide as soon as soon as I get some of the questions above answered.

I just did a ctrl+f search for both of those techs in the proto and techtree and nothing showed up ... very odd. I'm curious as to if this means that the game thinks these have no function? Maybe someone else should test or see if maybe it was improperly named in the techtree.


Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
posted 03-11-07 10:03 PM EDT (US)     28 / 33  


Klamath Work Ethos: Wood +5%

It is a bug,work rate on WOOD != work rate on TREE,they are different things,so this tech has no effect on gathering wood for tree.


Large Scale Gathering: Mill +50%, Farm +50%, Hunting +50%

Animal fattern rate at farm also +50%.

For Iroquois they have 25% penalty on animal fattern rate in farm,but it will back to normal at fortress age(FortressizeXPIroquois).

posted 03-17-07 09:41 AM EDT (US)     29 / 33  
But you can only gather wood from trees, correct?

The large scale gathering and hunting confusion is only because the technologies are split between their respective gathering groups. The fattening technology is under the herdables section, where as the rest of the effects are under their respective group.

Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
posted 03-18-07 04:01 AM EDT (US)     30 / 33  
Not exactly,wood crates also counted as wood resourse.

Actually both trees and wood crates have "Wood" unittype in protox.xml, but settler's gathering rates are defined as "rate for trees" and "rate for crates",not "rate for wood", so a tech(Klamath Work Ethos) which changes "the gathering rate for wood" won't cause any effect.

posted 03-19-07 06:08 PM EDT (US)     31 / 33  
I see, okay.

Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
posted 04-19-07 03:56 PM EDT (US)     32 / 33  
Now that is alot of useful info. I didnt know that playing several cards increased your gather rates, I assume that the same is for military upgrades as well. I guess the question would be is there a limit on how much of a increase you can have on gathering or military units as far as increasing attack and hitpoints?
posted 04-19-07 04:39 PM EDT (US)     33 / 33  
No, unless ES has been hiding something from us

Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
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