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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » Who really has the best "pure" boom?
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Topic Subject:Who really has the best "pure" boom?
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ub3r
Skirmisher
posted 12-15-06 01:19 PM EDT (US)         
Lets take a look at how the civs with a good booming ability stack up against eachother, now with the Native civs included.

Usually one would say Britians Manor boom is superior to the rest, if given time. But what about this fast Dutch 6 Bank Boom? THe Iro boom is very effective, yet you could argue the Aztec boom is superior to all.

Aztecs

They have the fastest unit production possible due to Warrior Priests + Villies. Your villies come out so fast, and if you send a TC Travios as soon as you age, you can have 20 vills in like 40 secs not even. Plus if ur making units they come out very fast also.

Iroqious

Im not too keen when it comes to advanced Iro strats/boom, so i might sound somewhat uneducated when it comes to them, but i know i heard of a combo of cards plus town defense dance that can be very effective. Tho i wouldnt call it a Boom? I think the "boom" advantage they get is travios coming from Fire pit. If they set up 3 TC's and put fertility dance they can boom fairly well. Im not too sure how they do on water.

British

Everyone knows about Britians Manor boom. THey are cheaper now in TWC, its also now more of a risk to send VC first. However if given time a Manor boom is awesome along w British uber peasant shipments, and vills coming from TC.

Dutch

The Bank Wagon used along w/ 400 age up and 300 wood shipment in Discovery means alot of Banks, with a very fast colonial time. This has become very effective and the DUtch seem to walk by therye opponents in economy fairly quickly early on. Along with a razor FF, this can be dominant.

THe rest can be also looked at but i wont get into it. Portugal has a great Water Boom, and with the extra TC's can do very well with water maps. Spain doesnt need to boom lol.

But looking at the stregnths of each civ, i would say a Aztec boom can blow by even a British Manor Boom with 10 WP and 15 vills on Firepit.


"Were surrounded.........this simplifies things." - Chesty Puller USMC 1950

"Let your plans be dark and as impenatrable as night, and when you move, fall like a lightning-bolt." - Sun Tzu
AuthorReplies:
somme
Skirmisher
posted 12-15-06 01:23 PM EDT (US)     1 / 31       
Once you get the firepit going Aztec > All

Dutch and Brits have fastest boom starting from a normal start though.


ESO : Pcfreak8
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is." -Jan L. A. van de Snepscheu
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justiw
Skirmisher
posted 12-15-06 01:49 PM EDT (US)     2 / 31       
I'd say that the brits have the 'best' boom. They can focus on 2 resources and produce military and villagers very rapidly.

The aztec boom is so food heavy that it's hard to get going early while being able to defend yourself. One big problem you will face is that you get housed. From late colonial onward, the aztec boom is the best, but still very food heavy. You kinda have to establish yourself a little bit (pop space, secured hunts, military units) before you boom with the aztecs.

The dutch boom seems pretty nice too since banks were boosted.

No comment on Iroq.


Counter the attack, then Counter Attack!!!
Squints
Skirmisher
posted 12-15-06 01:52 PM EDT (US)     3 / 31       
I believe the travois the iroquois produce at the pit, do not build TC's. They are stil good for farms, plantations and war huts.

Is Portugal on this list? Two TC's in colonial plus schooner card?

Unthinking_Pain
Skirmisher
posted 12-15-06 02:06 PM EDT (US)     4 / 31       
As far as Natives go, Aztec > Iro > Sioux IMO. Aztec have the best cards for econ (Warrior Priest cards, 5 villie card in Colonial, 8 + 10 villie (for gold) Fortress, Agrarian Ways, Schooners, those Chinampa cards) and Warrior Priests. Iro > Sioux because they have cards like Agrarian Ways as well as the ability to spam travois to build Farms/Plantations/Warhuts.

I still think Dutch and Brit pure boom > Aztec as far as who can build the biggest econ the fastest. Being able to start in Discovery producing extra villager-seconds with Manors or Banks can just add up to an early econ lead that's hard to get ahead of. Ports aren't bad with 2 TC (and are great with that + Schooners), but it still doesn't get off the ground quite as fast as Brit/Dutch can. However, the huge advantage of Aztec boom is BB's + fertility for super fast military production on demand - a very nice fall back position IMO.

Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 12-15-06 02:27 PM EDT (US)     5 / 31       
Aztec leave everyone in the dust.

"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
schildpad
Skirmisher
posted 12-15-06 03:29 PM EDT (US)     6 / 31       
Manor boom>bank boom in 'pure booming'

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ub3r
Skirmisher
posted 12-15-06 10:33 PM EDT (US)     7 / 31       
I mean is the Aztec boom really that potent? Even when you add in variables such as at what time, and how fast they can get it going?

An Aztec player has a hard time against a Dutch boomer.


"Were surrounded.........this simplifies things." - Chesty Puller USMC 1950

"Let your plans be dark and as impenatrable as night, and when you move, fall like a lightning-bolt." - Sun Tzu
Brtnboarder495
Skirmisher
posted 12-15-06 10:56 PM EDT (US)     8 / 31       
Dutch have the best boom IMO because it's quick (4 banks by 6:30 I believe), and it pays back very quickly. Combine that with an early age up and age2 skirms, MM, 2 towers and colbertism and you've got a pretty automatic defense as well.

Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
Gomezd
Skirmisher
posted 12-15-06 11:49 PM EDT (US)     9 / 31       
as far a "pure" (only booming ignoring military for defence and everything else) I still think the british boom is the best. Huge mannor boom, followed by Industrial + estates (I think thats the name of card) I think it still beats all other booms..
The Crazy Idiot
Skirmisher
posted 12-16-06 00:31 AM EDT (US)     10 / 31       
Does anybody use the native equivalent of estates?
far_easterner
Skirmisher
posted 12-16-06 03:51 AM EDT (US)     11 / 31       
i have noticed that natives cannot keep up with any kind of euro once the euros get their factories out. i rarely see a native civ keep up with french. (french can get score 1600+ while i rarely see natives hit 1000) imo french got the best one or german if they focus on sending all those settler wagons. but still i think french got the advantage for booming... im ean how else can they support an army full of cuirs?

[This message has been edited by far_easterner (edited 12-16-2006 @ 03:52 AM).]

Luckyass
Skirmisher
posted 12-16-06 11:53 AM EDT (US)     12 / 31       
Eh early game boom to +- 50 vills British and Dutch handsdown

Lategameboom -> Aztecs

Iros i have no real experience with

Everyone might say Aztecs are the best boomers, but its really hard to get 10 Warpriests and attack/defend.
This while Brits can easily boom and attack at the same time.
Now that Dutch have 1 bankcard, fighting and bankbooming @ the same time has become easier aswell

Miah
Skirmisher
posted 12-16-06 12:10 PM EDT (US)     13 / 31       
I would say french have the best econ; Their boom however is somewhat slower than desirable.(Though without cards.) Unless you are on a map with cree, the french seem to keep pace fairly well with any other civ(and even on a map with cree.) The 3 courier card is probably the best Age 1 card though.(3.6 settlers to 4(2 settler wagon) but the courier can move around a bit better, and be tasked to more things.)
James Lock
Skirmisher
posted 12-16-06 02:42 PM EDT (US)     14 / 31       
The manor boom is good, but that alone as a pure boom won't beat Portugal's 3 TC boom. You have to advance to Industrial and send estates.

Once maxed on houses you have 20 extra villagers. That is enough to advance to Fortress, then to Industrial and send estates before 15 minutes.

But whether or not you should send estates as your first industrial card is dependant on the agressiveness of your opponent.

Russia's 3 TC boom was good in AoE3, but vilalger train time was nerfed. I really don't know how good it is now. But they can keep up with most economies in colonial with a combination of strangling resources and constant villager production.


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Sundalo50
Skirmisher
posted 12-16-06 04:30 PM EDT (US)     15 / 31       
In colonial both dutch and brits can outboom portugal.

2 Tcs can't match banks and house boom.

Unthinking_Pain
Skirmisher
posted 12-16-06 06:56 PM EDT (US)     16 / 31       

Quote:

In colonial both dutch and brits can outboom portugal.
2 Tcs can't match banks and house boom.

That's true, but a TC is more efficient at producing more villie-seconds of econ than either a bank or a manor (barring Virginia Company). 350 food/wood for 5 miners (Dutch), or 125 wood (subtracting 10 wood since the house supports the villie pop)/villie for Britain are both worse than 100 food/villie from the 2nd Port TC.

Dutch and Britain can dump MORE into producing econ sooner than Port, but it's not as efficient.

[This message has been edited by Unthinking_Pain (edited 12-16-2006 @ 06:56 PM).]

Ferdinand Gwonch
Skirmisher
posted 12-16-06 07:06 PM EDT (US)     17 / 31       

Quote:

Iroqious

lol


OWN GOAL
James Lock
Skirmisher
posted 12-16-06 08:59 PM EDT (US)     18 / 31       
Also I said 3 TC boom, not 2... if a brit is booming you can quite easily FF.

Thanks to all those that signed the petition to get me unbanned here.
And special thanks to smashnbash for making it.
KingsRansom
Skirmisher
posted 12-16-06 11:19 PM EDT (US)     19 / 31       
Aztec's leave everyone in dust, even more on a water map.

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ub3r
Skirmisher
posted 12-16-06 11:33 PM EDT (US)     20 / 31       
Whats funny about an Iro boom? It isnt funny when his TC has 18k hitpoints w/ every goddamn structure in his Town shooting at you. Not to mention those annoying Mantlet Meatshields.

If you actually let an Aztec player get 10 Wp's and 15 villies on FP, then your doing something wrong. The Aztec boom takes CONSIDERABLY longer, than any British or Dutch attempt.


"Were surrounded.........this simplifies things." - Chesty Puller USMC 1950

"Let your plans be dark and as impenatrable as night, and when you move, fall like a lightning-bolt." - Sun Tzu
Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 12-17-06 00:34 AM EDT (US)     21 / 31       
Did people miss that he asked about a "pure" boom? Ofcourse Dutch are the best at booming while attacking/defending. But he didn't ask for that.

"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
Gomezd
Skirmisher
posted 12-17-06 02:51 AM EDT (US)     22 / 31       
^ thats why I beleive british mannor boom + states beats all. even if it isnt practical.
ub3r
Skirmisher
posted 12-17-06 12:31 PM EDT (US)     23 / 31       
Why do people keep mentioning Estates when it comes to a British "boom"? I mean yes, Estates when sent, can be a very big economic boost, probably the biggest the game has to offer.

However, Estates doesnt come into play untill Industrial. WHatg if the game is tight and you need those 20 Lbowmen? WHat if you want to send a factory to get some Rockets going? It might not even be your first choice.

Britians bread-and-butter is Virginia Company, which can be sent as a first card, and start paying itself off immediately. This is what powers a British eco, i mean really, when you get into a game with a British opponent, you dont get worried about Estates, you worry about letting them manor boom.


"Were surrounded.........this simplifies things." - Chesty Puller USMC 1950

"Let your plans be dark and as impenatrable as night, and when you move, fall like a lightning-bolt." - Sun Tzu
Earl Samsca
Skirmisher
posted 12-17-06 12:55 PM EDT (US)     24 / 31       
Because without Estates Britain ends up on about 50-60 villagers and requires the construction of more TCs to make it up to 99 at any real pace.

Estates allows you to make 40 odd villagers in around 2 minutes assuming you have the resources.

Although it depends what you mean as a pure boom. I would consider it the fastest civ to reach full econ, so that means 99 vils and in that situation Britain is the fastest. Dutch do okay but those bank cards screw them over in terms of the fastest to the finish.

James Lock
Skirmisher
posted 12-17-06 05:07 PM EDT (US)     25 / 31       
Because a pure manor boom will get you to industrial in 15 minutes to send estates.

When you say pure boom you imply that yu won't be interrupted or forced to think about military.


Thanks to all those that signed the petition to get me unbanned here.
And special thanks to smashnbash for making it.
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