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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » Rant: Anyone else pissed at ES?
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Topic Subject:Rant: Anyone else pissed at ES?
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Krazy_Karl
Skirmisher
posted 12-17-06 08:41 AM EDT (US)         
I used to love ES. They made IMO the best game ever made: AoeII. I have every AoE game, individually purchased, as they came out; no bs cheap gold editions either.

Now ES is all about the one thing that makes the world go round. Money.

ES doesn't give a crap about AoM anymore. they left it unbalanced and have no plans to release another patch. The fact that so many people bought AoE3 tells ES that it's okay for them to not patch a game (AoM, AoE 1 and 2), that it's okay to cancel the Zone for AoE1 & 2, that it's okay to not patch AoE3 effectively or give any information about what the hell's going on.

When was the last time anyone from ES gave us any indication of what was next? there's been no news about a needed TWC patch, as well as their continued lack of care for their long time customers.

Now ES is catering to noobs too much, they are leeching off the most common person who plays an Age game: The young male who doesn't play competetively AT ALL. They have introduced utter crap to the series that makes me feel ashamed to be a longtime ES fan.

One prime example is when they increased EXP attained after games, to get more casual RTS gamers scared of the competetivity into the game, to earn more money.

Things/"features" such as no drop-off points, which basically attract people who are shit at the game and have little micro. Other "features" include a series of shitty campaigns based on a shitty cliche story, rather than the classic, well made AoE2 campaigns. I mean, instead of a campaign based on and around famous generals like Napoleon- they come up with some crap about some Scottish guy on some incredibly cliche quest to rid the world of a generic secret organisation. Enthralling.

Most people that play AoE3 haven't played AoE2, which shows that they are new to the series, attracted by the cheery graphics and shit campaign that even the most retarded adult would scoff at.

Come on ES: LI are STILL the games best unit by far. cavalry are crap. Port has been crap since day one. They BUFFED Spain which was already one of the top civs, now it is by far the best civ. Germany blows, they nerfed longbows improperly, the list of unchanged, major flaws in the game goes on.

Sure, AoE3 is a great game. I simply feel that ES has sold out on the gamers that brought them up the RTS ladder. ES is neglecting the online gamer who just wants a fair game. ES is catering to the majority to make money.

Just balance the bloody game and win your fans back, ES.

Thoughts?

(No flaming please)

Oh yeah, forgot about the fact that they ditched us to work on some other RTS game, which will inevitably suck ass.


im in ur base

steelin ur crates

[This message has been edited by KrAzY_KaRl (edited 12-17-2006 @ 08:49 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
Botolf
Royal Guard
posted 12-17-06 05:00 PM EDT (US)     26 / 69       

Quote:

...that it's okay to not patch AoE3 effectively or give any information about what the hell's going on.


Newsflash buddy, they're human. Mistakes come with the territory, so stop being so unrealistic.

And as for being tight-lipped, they've said it again and again: it's so fans won't start hysteria against them because their timetable changes or because of what they decide at meetings.

Quote:

Now ES is all about the one thing that makes the world go round. Money.


Money is the ultimate goal, no duh. But to say that's all they dream about, aspire to make, is ludicrous. If you want people to take you seriously, stop dehumanizing the game devs into greed-mongering villain roles.

Quote:

Now ES is catering to noobs too much, they are leeching off the most common person who plays an Age game: The young male who doesn't play competetively AT ALL. They have introduced utter crap to the series that makes me feel ashamed to be a longtime ES fan.

One prime example is when they increased EXP attained after games, to get more casual RTS gamers scared of the competetivity into the game, to earn more money.


"Utter crap" is entirely subjective.

Quote:

Things/"features" such as no drop-off points, which basically attract people who are shit at the game and have little micro. Other "features" include a series of shitty campaigns based on a shitty cliche story, rather than the classic, well made AoE2 campaigns. I mean, instead of a campaign based on and around famous generals like Napoleon- they come up with some crap about some Scottish guy on some incredibly cliche quest to rid the world of a generic secret organisation. Enthralling.


-Drop off points: I thought these were a chore, in the same way that placing farms/mills over and over again was a chore (I'm referring to having to build storage pits/camps/mines over and over again in order to get resources faster).

-Campaign: They wanted to try something new, for better or for worse. Although I wanted a historical campaign, I know it comes down to your preferential tastes. The aoe3 campaign scenarios are far better made than the aok scens on an individual level.

Quote:

Sure, AoE3 is a great game. I simply feel that ES has sold out on the gamers that brought them up the RTS ladder. ES is neglecting the online gamer who just wants a fair game. ES is catering to the majority to make money.

Just balance the bloody game and win your fans back, ES.


They're trying, perfectionist, they're trying.

It's posts like yours that remind me just how unreasonable gaming fans can really be. "Why be collected when you can let your emotions blind your reasoning and embark on a rant that lacks any common sense at all?"


| Botolf the Crazed |
There's treasure everywhere!
Winner of the Kman Lame Puns Award
KingSteve3721
Skirmisher
posted 12-17-06 05:11 PM EDT (US)     27 / 69       

Quote:

Is AOE III and TWC unbalanced? Yes!

No. AOE3 is perfectly balanced in my opinion.

TWC is the most unbalanced i have ever seen this game be.


[FeaR]{KingSteve3721}
“I love my name of honor, more than I fear death.”- Julius Caesar
"The Pope! How many divisions has he got?"- Joseph Stalin
"The hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain."- Napoleon Bonaparte
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Elpea
Hal
(id: lp_usa)
posted 12-17-06 05:24 PM EDT (US)     28 / 69       

Quote:

and if someone compares ES with Blizzard again, prepare to receive a rock in the middle of your forehead.


Why the hell would I care about your short sighted offensive sentence to keep me from posting my opinion?

Here: "the next person who posts gets a shoe up their ass", now everyone won't post anymore! Yay!

No, really, it's COMPLETELY fair to compare the two. One knows how to make games and support them, the other knows how to make games, but their support goes as far as their next project begins.

ES has teams working on all sorts of useless prototypes they'll never make into games instead of supporting their current games. For Age3 an entire programmer was dedicated to making the water look pretty.

And yet, no custom scenarios, no modding tools/help, AoM is still buggy (just last night we ran into a huge bug in a 5 hour shimo game), unbalanced, AoK is without MP support, and so many things they could dedicate one of these useless teams to.

I'm a huge Age games fan, but that's as far as it goes, Age games. ES has talented game designers, that's the best aspect of that entire team and it's what keeps me loving their games.


Angel Walker
Skirmisher
(id: Just a player)
posted 12-17-06 05:34 PM EDT (US)     29 / 69       
I just posted that because EVERYONE knows Blizzard > ES in every single aspect you can think of. I mean, some people tend to say ES sucks just because they're comparing them with Blizzard, but most of the time they don't realize that Blizzard is the only company you can compare with ES and say they're doing a sucky job.

I agree with you. Just don't post it again and you won't get that rock, k?


ESO - Walker

>> Napoleonic Era --> Visit their Homepage!
"Holy *****" > Thunder (Ensemble Studios)

Retired from AoE3. But I do play AoK HD in Steam now and then.
Botolf
Royal Guard
posted 12-17-06 05:43 PM EDT (US)     30 / 69       
Wikipedia says Blizzard has 1600+ employees, while ES has what, 80-90ish? Now you know why Blizzard can care for all their legacy games, eh?

| Botolf the Crazed |
There's treasure everywhere!
Winner of the Kman Lame Puns Award
Lord Tahattus
Supreme Emperor
posted 12-17-06 05:54 PM EDT (US)     31 / 69       
I disagree with Just a Player. ES is spanish, Blizzard is portuguese. ES spams games every 2, 3 years, while Blizzard gives one every 6, 7. ES starts strong, powerful graphics (see water, for example), while Blizzard starts weaker. However, as the spanish, ES can't hold the end-game... Blizzard can and becomes each time stronger. I can see people playing starcraft, who's almost 10 years old!

Lord Tahattus - Register yourselves at the WotTA forum!
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Elpea
Hal
(id: lp_usa)
posted 12-17-06 06:54 PM EDT (US)     32 / 69       

Quote:

Wikipedia says Blizzard has 1600+ employees


Because they run an MMO now, which requires a lot of staff for support. When they made Starcraft they didn't have 90 staff members.

Botolf
Royal Guard
posted 12-17-06 07:08 PM EDT (US)     33 / 69       
My point was that it'd be easier for them to patch their older games.

| Botolf the Crazed |
There's treasure everywhere!
Winner of the Kman Lame Puns Award
Earl Samsca
Skirmisher
posted 12-17-06 07:18 PM EDT (US)     34 / 69       
Oh im more pissed at myself.

If I could just learn to ride the overpowered civs as they rise and fall I would probably do better. Winning may not be everything.. but being overrun by the same old stuff game after game is just tedious.

Sure in a perfect world there wouldn't be such blatant shifts in civ power.. but there is.

Elpea
Hal
(id: lp_usa)
posted 12-17-06 07:18 PM EDT (US)     35 / 69       
It's easy for ES too, if they focused less in making prototypes and more into fixing old games.

StonewallJ
Seraph Emeritus
(id: Conquistador34)
posted 12-17-06 07:22 PM EDT (US)     36 / 69       
Get hired there and make some changes

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[][][][][][][][][][] Stonewall J [][][][][][][][][][][]
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Botolf
Royal Guard
posted 12-17-06 09:23 PM EDT (US)     37 / 69       
I plan on getting hired, eventually

| Botolf the Crazed |
There's treasure everywhere!
Winner of the Kman Lame Puns Award
schildpad
Skirmisher
posted 12-18-06 03:57 AM EDT (US)     38 / 69       
Due to WoW blizzard can easily afford to keep working on old games. Any normal company cant. However blizzard has more money then they can spend. They earn about 84 million a month just because of the monthly fee people pay for WoW.
And then they even charge you for an add-on. You allready pay 140 euro a year for it, you allready paid 60 euro for the game, and then they also let you pay for an expansion while they got more money then they can spend. No wonder they can support their old games.

"such a kind fellow!" ~ ķįŋğ_Ćħŗĩš_ĬĬ

Furby killer should be crowned leader of AOE forum ~ [SW_GD]Teutonic

Krazy_Karl
Skirmisher
posted 12-18-06 06:45 AM EDT (US)     39 / 69       

Quote:

They're trying, perfectionist, they're trying.

Heh, i'm not a perfectionist, I just want the game that I paid for to be balanced and fun.

Quote:

It's posts like yours that remind me just how unreasonable gaming fans can really be.

I don't think a balanced game with decent support (as Elpea said) is unreasonable, considering I paid (and everyone who bought this game) $100.


im in ur base

steelin ur crates
Cy Marlayne
Skirmisher
posted 12-18-06 06:53 AM EDT (US)     40 / 69       
Spending $100 on AOE3 and TWC is far better than buying a $400 Xbox 360 that stops working the 3rd month you have it, then when you send it to Microsoft to be fixed, it gets lost in the mail, alledgedly stolen and Microsoft customer support doesn't even give a damn, and they try to satisfy you by saying, "Buy another one."

I rest my case.


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[This message has been edited by Cy Marlayne (edited 12-18-2006 @ 06:53 AM).]

Krazy_Karl
Skirmisher
posted 12-18-06 09:10 AM EDT (US)     41 / 69       
^ Holy crap is that true? Thats terrible.

Over here, AoE3 was $100 AUD and TWC was $40 AUD.


im in ur base

steelin ur crates
unjugon
Skirmisher
posted 12-18-06 09:20 AM EDT (US)     42 / 69       
IMO, Age3 and TWC compare badly to AoK and AoC, all in all.

I could give many reasons, but Iīll just state one to make people think and start a discussion on it: ESO. I donīt know why, but it isnīt fun to play on ESO. A few of my friends think the same. On the other hand, I had loads of fun on the Zone.

By hiring more people and taking longer to deliver, ES created a worse/less fun game. Or arenīt games about the fun? Games and money are words that shouldnīt be in the same sentence.


My blog, for WC3 and AoE3 strats and articles:
http://unjugon.blogspot.com/
My stats:
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MNBob
Skirmisher
posted 12-18-06 09:31 AM EDT (US)     43 / 69       
AoK was a horribly balanced game. The balance problems were much worse than AOE3. AoK balance never truly became better until AoC was released.

The Zone and MS were primary reasons why it took ES longer to make patches for AoK/AoC.

ES had nothing to do with the Zone dropping support for AoK/AoC.

No control over the Zone is a primary reason that ES decided to create ESO.


Abus Guns and Grenadiers ARE NOT ARTILLERY!
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Makita
Skirmisher
posted 12-18-06 11:17 AM EDT (US)     44 / 69       
I think it would help ES's reputation hugely to have a semi-public testing of each patch.

Their balance team may be great players, but there just are not enough of them. That much is clear. Some of the mistakes they have made were so glaring and obvious that the only possible explanation is that they were not able to log enough hours of game play to encounter certain situations.

Having a select group of the public test the patch would also be much faster since they would recieve more game-hours worth of feedback sooner.

ultimitsu
Skirmisher
posted 12-18-06 12:46 PM EDT (US)     45 / 69       
about balance support

is it just me or does anyone else feel that ES seem to have greater difficulty in balancing the game than other companies?

I used to play a lot of tekken (sorry about using tekken as an example again), namco had some difficulty in balancing an arcade game, primarily because you cant just release patch and get everyone to update, yet namco did a lot better in balancing tekken 5, tekken 5 DR is arguably one of the best balanced fighting game around.

John Xenir
Skirmisher
posted 12-18-06 01:05 PM EDT (US)     46 / 69       
Actually, we have the possibilty to correct those imbalances with slightly modding the game.
Makita
Skirmisher
posted 12-18-06 01:09 PM EDT (US)     47 / 69       
@ultimitsu,
In ES's defense, they make very complex games, and in each new game, they add to the complexity.

That's why I don't think they should keep trying to tackle the balance on their own. It would be impossible to account for all the permutations with their limited number of testers.

Anyone who has ever played WoW knows how much their patches change during beta testings. It's unclear to me why ES wouldn't want to utilize the same system. It takes nothing away from their in-house balance testers.

[This message has been edited by Makita (edited 12-18-2006 @ 01:09 PM).]

Orilus
Skirmisher
posted 12-18-06 01:30 PM EDT (US)     48 / 69       
ES should give out more information to the 'Age-Community' about their plan for future patches.

Maybe they can try public beta patches like they did at one time long ago with AoE II - The Conquerors. This would restrain the patch-hungry people and give them stuff to chew on ;-) And ES could only benefit from the feedback!

So maybe we should issue an open letter or make a petition to ES?

Orilus


dux exercitus et defensor regni
Lord Tahattus
Supreme Emperor
posted 12-18-06 01:38 PM EDT (US)     49 / 69       
Why don't ES simply as us what should they fix?

Lord Tahattus - Register yourselves at the WotTA forum!
WOTTA WEBSITE!
War of the Triple Alliance Beta!
Flags for new Civilizations, The Asian Dynasties, Knights and Barbarians and Napoleonic Era
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WotTA back to active!
Angel Walker
Skirmisher
(id: Just a player)
posted 12-18-06 01:40 PM EDT (US)     50 / 69       
In the first big balance patch, they released the changes to come (1.05 I think).

Even though half of the Experts at AS told them boosting TC HP would boost FF and not nerf it, or that Sapin would be the next OP civ, no fixes were made.

Once again, the community was right.


ESO - Walker

>> Napoleonic Era --> Visit their Homepage!
"Holy *****" > Thunder (Ensemble Studios)

Retired from AoE3. But I do play AoK HD in Steam now and then.

[This message has been edited by Just a player (edited 12-18-2006 @ 01:41 PM).]

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