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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » 1.03 Patch Notes
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Topic Subject:1.03 Patch Notes
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L_Clan_Socrates
VIP
posted 02-27-07 04:17 PM EDT (US)         
https://forum.agecommunity.com/ibb/posts.aspx?postID=439375

gl, hf etc. etc.


[img]http://www.aoe3-arena.com/sign2/WaCkO,3,0.png[/img]
AuthorReplies:
Angel Walker
Skirmisher
(id: Just a player)
posted 03-01-07 12:06 PM EDT (US)     226 / 445       

Quoted from Voltiguer:

Ottomans do NOT have the economy to spam units so they actually counter the enemy army, unless if their UNITS are superior (e.g. abus)

They are.


ESO - Walker

>> Napoleonic Era --> Visit their Homepage!
"Holy *****" > Thunder (Ensemble Studios)

Retired from AoE3. But I do play AoK HD in Steam now and then.
Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 03-01-07 12:14 PM EDT (US)     227 / 445       
Dopple, just give up man. The Ottoman hate is too strong for reason.
After the 10th time being told that Abus beat Forest Prowlers when you see game after game in first hand experienced that they don't (Matt just adds Mamelukes, Hussars and Stradiots for kicks you know) ... well, how long can you continue to bother? Even I can only keep banging my head against a wall for so long ...

So just give up. I have.



"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
GreatViet
Skirmisher
posted 03-01-07 01:23 PM EDT (US)     228 / 445       

Quoted from Cherub Walker:

THey are ..

for now .. but not in 1.03 at least not enough

LordKivlov
Royal Guard
posted 03-01-07 01:49 PM EDT (US)     229 / 445       
Every civ has been nerfed, and then changed in the future, thats was balance changes do, they try and balance the game out.

They may be slow at balancing it but its progressing and get used to Ottoman not being OP, I put up with Abus Guns for half the time I've played this game and now just finally ES is doing something about them.

They got incredibly buffed when Siege Trooper status was removed, so now they're being rebalanced so that you can actually kill them without spending copious amounts of resources on Hussars or Cossacks that just get owned by jans and the abus.

@Ender, go play germany for a while then come back and complain about nerfed civs.


Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan
George_uk
Skirmisher
posted 03-01-07 01:50 PM EDT (US)     230 / 445       
Lol it will be interesting to see if in a few weeks there are a million Otto UP topics...

Previously known as MoNo Ager
Makita
Skirmisher
posted 03-01-07 01:54 PM EDT (US)     231 / 445       

Quoted from Adam42:

There's nothing wrong with hussars, they counter stuff fine. It's only when they go up against op stuff like forest prowlers, abus behind jans etc etc where they seem weak.

Yes. That's exactly my point. See, that's WHY those things are OP - because they aren't countered properly by their natural counter.

What do you think I'm talking about, 5 hussars against 10 skirms? Of course the hussars will win, but when would you see 10 skirms alone in a real game? Only very early...which is exactly when the high cost of the cav/stable high training time make even that scenario unlikely.

ultimitsu
Skirmisher
posted 03-01-07 02:53 PM EDT (US)     232 / 445       

Quote:

And this means the upgrade might as well not exist and so does not warrant mentioning?

shall i in thae case also meantion how iro has 2 more infantry boost card thet first boosts prowlers by 15% on attack and HP, then there is aboways which boost their eco so much it almost makes prowlers cheaper than wakinas? shall i also meantion all these boosts also boost tomas who are cheaper, have more HP and same base cavalry attack as war clubs and this is relevant because my expensive wakina upgrades still dont upgrade my anti cav?

no, i dont include every bit of bonus i can think of because some of them are not used often enough to matter in most cases.

Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 03-01-07 02:59 PM EDT (US)     233 / 445       

Quoted from ultimitsu:

shall i in thae case also meantion how iro has 2 more infantry boost card thet first boosts prowlers by 15% on attack and HP


Yes and yes. Also mention the Lacrosse tech as well. If you're going to make a comparison, atleast make a complete one so it's a fair one.

Quoted from ultimitsu:

my expensive wakina upgrades still dont upgrade my anti cav?


Your expensive Wakina upgrade also upgrades Rifle Riders's damage by 25%, who are anti-melee cav (Wakinas are already anti-ranged cav).


"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
Jumbalaya
Skirmisher
posted 03-01-07 03:00 PM EDT (US)     234 / 445       

Quote:

Don't worry, though, I'm already working on a few ideas. If anything, such unfair nerfing is only going to piss me off and make me try harder. Those who think they're free from Ottoman abuse at last are in for a surprise.

Keep that attitude up :P (Without being pissed off of course)


lol im jumby
RedStripe
Skirmisher
posted 03-01-07 03:30 PM EDT (US)     235 / 445       
From what I can tell this patch boosts light infantry usage, lowers heavy infantry usage, and will make two things more effective: 1)FF 2)Horse

The extra horse should be a HUGE blow to iriqious. Since they will FF more often, make fewer tommy's and face more hussar with their FP spam.

The extra horse should be a HUGE increase to the aztec. It would seem that all of their early shipments are anti cav and light infantry which are going to be played more often.

The increased likely hood of an FF will be a HUGE boost to the germans who age to slow to be defend against rushes.

Do these assumptions make sense? Let me know what you think.

RedStripe

CatPain_M
Banned
posted 03-01-07 04:00 PM EDT (US)     236 / 445       
why in heck is it that ender is allowed to flame everyone (and by everyone I mean a few people) and get off scott free?

I personally don't like the attitude. everyone else here is taking the patch fine and seeing the good points in ES's work, but Ender is having a little trouble getting over the fact that one unit will be weaker than it used to be.


Ender, do you know what patches are for? They are for changing things and trying to make the game more balanced. If winning is truly so important to you, as your outrage over the nerf that might hurt your score makes it seem, then why don't you just resort to the Iroquois FF? I hear that is a good strat for people who only want to see the "You Are Victorious" screen.

Also, the british longbow bonus is nice! they have needed that, I think they have been too ineffective for too long.

[This message has been edited by CatPain_M (edited 03-01-2007 @ 04:04 PM).]

ziGGysiGGy43
Skirmisher
posted 03-01-07 04:07 PM EDT (US)     237 / 445       

Quoted from Walker:

EVERYONE has a problem with Iroquois. EVERYONE knows that Forest Prowlers are OP and EVERYONE knows this patch hasn't fixed the problem. However, NO ONE can say that ANY ranged infantry do any better than ABUS vs Prowlers - be it cost or pop effectively

Does that mean you should nerf the only unit that can do a decent job against it? I know EVERYONE has a problem with Prowlers! I KNOW Abus were too strong against other ranged units. 30% Though? Way overnerfed.

Quoted from Ender_Ward:

Don't worry, though, I'm already working on a few ideas. If anything, such unfair nerfing is only going to piss me off and make me try harder. Those who think they're free from Ottoman abuse at last are in for a surprise.

Looking forward to them Ender. I plan on still laming (lol) Ottomans against the poor UP civs like Spain, Dutch and Iro....

Lord_Richjp
Skirmisher
posted 03-01-07 04:10 PM EDT (US)     238 / 445       

Quote:

Does that mean you should nerf the only unit that can do a decent job against it?

There are 10 other civs that have to face abus guns, you know.


My grandmother slaps harder than the Agra Fort shoots. And she's dead. ~ Ender_Ward

By the same token, if I attempt to operate the mouse using nothing but my butt-cheeks, micro will also come down to "luck." ~ Beatnikjoe
schildpad
Skirmisher
posted 03-01-07 04:37 PM EDT (US)     239 / 445       
ah ziggy, otto not anymore a top civ, how rude. Ill indeed happily continue dutch laming (became much less because they are too good now, hope nerf is enough). Luckily i dont need to use OP aspects of a civ to win.

"such a kind fellow!" ~ ķįŋğ_Ćħŗĩ_ĬĬ

Furby killer should be crowned leader of AOE forum ~ [SW_GD]Teutonic

ziGGysiGGy43
Skirmisher
posted 03-01-07 04:56 PM EDT (US)     240 / 445       

Quoted from Lord_Richjp:

There are 10 other civs that have to face abus guns, you know.

9 actually. Give them boosts too. Here is an idea: make Hussars useful enough to counter LI. Not only do you have a solution to Abus, but then Ottomans may make more Hussars over Abus. Nerf them so they don't destroy all LI, but still make Ottomans able to tackle a LI spam.

Quoted from Lord_Kivlov:

ah ziggy, otto not anymore a top civ, how rude. Ill indeed happily continue dutch laming (became much less because they are too good now, hope nerf is enough). Luckily i dont need to use OP aspects of a civ to win.

lol...Ottos weren't a top civ because of Abus. They were an upper level (nowhere near Spain, Dutch and Iro) civ because of Silk Road TPs, nerf that with miuns 10-15%, and you have an increidbly balanced civ.

*Sigh*, I guess it doesn't matter that the top civs got barely touched. (Iro Great House, Town Dance, Agrian Ways: Spain FF: Dutch early Eco) yet one of the most balanced civs gets a major nerf. Go Go Go ES!

schildpad
Skirmisher
posted 03-01-07 05:13 PM EDT (US)     241 / 445       
Dutch got indeed still great eco, but they were not strong just because of that, they were strong because finally after a year they had something usefull to spend resources on.

Otto has always been a strong civ, i doubt this nerf will make them up


"such a kind fellow!" ~ ķįŋğ_Ćħŗĩ_ĬĬ

Furby killer should be crowned leader of AOE forum ~ [SW_GD]Teutonic

Angel Walker
Skirmisher
(id: Just a player)
posted 03-01-07 05:54 PM EDT (US)     242 / 445       

Quote:

9 actually. Give them boosts too. Here is an idea: make Hussars useful enough to counter LI. Not only do you have a solution to Abus, but then Ottomans may make more Hussars over Abus. Nerf them so they don't destroy all LI, but still make Ottomans able to tackle a LI spam.

What's your point? So instead of ES nerfing Ottos (Abus, in that case), they boost all other civilizations, then you're fine with it?

ES should have nerfed Forest Prowlers (and Iros themselves) more, I don't disagree with that. However, I fail to see how the argumment that Abus shouldn't have been nerfed because they beat Forest Prowlers - BUT aren't OP, either they are what prevents Ottos from losing to Iroquois, unlike most other civilizations in the game, thus they are 'good' - makes sense.


ESO - Walker

>> Napoleonic Era --> Visit their Homepage!
"Holy *****" > Thunder (Ensemble Studios)

Retired from AoE3. But I do play AoK HD in Steam now and then.

[This message has been edited by Cherub Walker (edited 03-01-2007 @ 05:55 PM).]

SUX2000
Skirmisher
posted 03-01-07 06:18 PM EDT (US)     243 / 445       
Wait until the patch comes out before you render judgement. IMO abus nerf should have been 20%, but they will still be a decent civ(on Tp/water maps of course).

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GreatViet
Skirmisher
posted 03-01-07 06:49 PM EDT (US)     244 / 445       
serious if u think the nerf make otto balance .. after this patch , pick some one arround ur lev and play as otto let him pick other civs and then if u can still win ( point to walker and sc... doesnt worth for me to mention the name) then i will believe u otto is OP lolz. this is $^%*
Brtnboarder495
Skirmisher
posted 03-01-07 07:00 PM EDT (US)     245 / 445       

Quote:

Does that mean you should nerf the only unit that can do a decent job against it? I know EVERYONE has a problem with Prowlers! I KNOW Abus were too strong against other ranged units. 30% Though? Way overnerfed.

Because we shouldn't be balancing our units to beat the one and only most OP unit in the game. Abus are now more balanced in relation to other units in the game, besides FP (like the rest of the units)

For the record, Ottos had an easier time combating Iros, Spain and Dutch than most civs.


Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
windrider
Skirmisher
(id: frankle)
posted 03-01-07 07:33 PM EDT (US)     246 / 445       
I have a question for anyone sitting here complaining about how Forest Prowlers are too good or Abus Guns are too weak:

What about the other changes? There were quite a few other changes that may or may not have an impact. If we were going to sit here discussing Ottomans and Iroquois, then someone create a new topic.

What ever happened to Spain getting nerfed. Or why the Aztecs got nerfed. Are the Germans going to be any better off? Or the British? What about the Portuguese?

There are loads of questions, but Ender's complaining turns everyone back to the Ottomans every time they appear to begin to discuss something else.


"There is one quite often recalled, attributed to several sources, which was given following Jackson's extraordinary performance on September 13, 1847. it is a comment that could have applied to so many, an extraordinary generation of American soldiers: 'He will be heard from again.'" - Jeff Shaara
MordainThade
Skirmisher
posted 03-01-07 07:36 PM EDT (US)     247 / 445       
Has anyone considered the possibility that this post was a clever ploy by ES to see how we would react to a patch before it was released? With Wacko on the team, they gain someone who is aware of the various discussions that happen on various boards, and can see firsthand how in-game changes to balance issues have been predicted.

Until the patch is actually released, there is no guarantee that it will unfold exactly like the notes say.

As for my opinions on the patch:

Excellent start on Spain, though not enough.
No where near enough done to nerf Iro.
Good start on Dutch, may be enough.
Nice for the Germans, though would like shipment penalty reduced.
Brits = nice.
Aztec = OK I guess that Chinampa cards were really sick, effectively being two cards in one. No ERK nerf?
Ports = usable Organs are nice...
Ottos = Overnerf, methinks... maybe range resist to 30 at first?
Sioux = no opinion, don't see them very much.
Russia = OK, I guess.

Personally, I am of the opinion that many people are forgetting that each civ was designed to play differently; every civ is capable of doing things that others are not. When certain general strats become the norm, it is up to the players to devise new strats that crush the standard ones. I have never seen a bigger group of whiners than on the AoE3 forums that I visit; with any other competitive game that I have played, once a strat becomes popular, the best players devise new strats to crush it. Players should be whining this much only if a particular strategy with a particular civ can be used 100% of the time to guarantee victory 95-100% of the time. (i.e. Tekken 4's Jin)

True balance will never be achieved; there will always be tiers of strong / average / weak civs. Consider what each civ is capable of doing in terms of the entire game, and judge then. If a civ (or unit) can truly do too much (i.e. Iro, who can FF, semi-FF, boom, Col rush, etc. with the best of them; Abus, who kill everything that moves on two legs or wheels), then they are overpowered and deserving of a nerf.

As with all games with unequal sides (i.e. different civs / characters / abilities), if playing it gives you this much grief, and you truly cannot cope with the fact that variety in the game leads to imbalanced situations, quit the game and go play chess; you'll never complain about balance issues ever again.


Mercy has no meaning to me.
Common Sense and Common Courtesy should be renamed; neither are very common anymore.
StonewallJ
Seraph Emeritus
(id: Conquistador34)
posted 03-01-07 07:49 PM EDT (US)     248 / 445       
For all thosee that do not visit the bug thread:

XPack 1.03 Bug Fixes:

  • Iroquois 'Cayuga Support' (HCXPIroquoisCayugaSupport) card does not refund the population cost when cancelled.
  • Iroquois 'Oneida Support' (HCXPIroquoisOneidaSupport) card does not refund the population cost when cancelled.
  • Iroquois 'Seneca Support' (HCXPIroquoisSenecaSupport) card does not refund the population cost when cancelled.
  • German 'Crates of 600 Food + 2 Uhlans' (HCShipFoodCrates2German) card does not refund the population cost when cancelled.
  • German 'Crates of 700 Food + 2 Uhlans' (HCShipFoodCrates3German) card does not refund the population cost when cancelled.
  • German 'Crates of 600 Wood + 2 Uhlans' (HCShipWoodCrates2German) card does not refund the population cost when cancelled.
  • German 'Crates of 700 Wood + 2 Uhlans' (HCShipWoodCrates3German) card does not refund the population cost when cancelled.
  • German 'Crates of 600 Coin + 2 Uhlans' (HCShipCoinCrates2German) card does not refund the population cost when cancelled.
  • German 'Crates of 700 Coin + 2 Uhlans' (HCShipCoinCrates3German) card does not refund the population cost when cancelled.
  • German German '15 Sheep + 3 Uhlans' (HCShipSheep2German) card does not refund the population cost when cancelled.
  • German '1 Covered Wagon + 3 Uhlans' (HCShipCoveredWagonsGerman) card does not refund the population cost when cancelled.
  • German 'Frontier Defenses (2 Uhlans)' (HCFrontierDefensesGerman) card does not refund the population cost when cancelled.
  • German 'Fort (3 Uhlans)' (HCUnlockFortGerman) card does not refund the population cost when cancelled.
  • German 'Castramentation (4 Uhlans)' (HCUnlockFort2German) card does not refund the population cost when cancelled.
  • German 'Factory (4 Uhlans)' (HCUnlockFactoryGerman) card does not refund the population cost when cancelled.
  • German 'Robber Barons (4 Uhlans)' (HCRobberBaronsGerman) card does not refund the population cost when cancelled.
  • German '1 Caravel + 2 Uhlans' (HCShipCaravels1German) card does not refund the population cost when cancelled.
  • German '2 Caravels + 2 Uhlans' (HCShipCaravels2German) card does not refund the population cost when cancelled.
  • German '1 Galleon + 2 Uhlans' (HCShipGalleonsGerman) card does not refund the population cost when cancelled.
  • German '1 Frigate + 3 Uhlans' (HCShipFrigatesGerman) card does not refund the population cost when cancelled.
  • German '1 Monitor + 4 Uhlans' (HCShipMonitorsGerman) card does not refund the population cost when cancelled.
  • French 'TEAM Early Skirmishers' [2245 - HCEarlySkirmishersTeam] does not unlock Wakina Rifles.
  • The Spy's siege damage does not halve when the cover formation option is selected.
  • Revolution: O'Higgins effects are in reverse order, so the Hussars they send are labeled Veteran instead of Imperial.
  • Iroquois "Heavy Fortifications" card has its techs out of order, so the War Huts become Strong instead of Mighty.
  • Dutch "Carib Allies" does not upgrade the sent Caribs to Elite status.
  • Sioux WarChief does not receive HP bonus when upgrading to Fortress Age.
  • WarChief does not receive HP bonus when upgrading to Industrial Age.
  • German "Mercenary Loyalty" changes the "TEAM 10 Cree Allies" cost from 1000 to 1800.
  • Set default shader quality to low for Intel G965
  • Saved games where a population modifying HC card was played load up showing 0 pop.
  • Balance (Screw) / Tech: Cheyenne Horse Trading reduces the train time for Sioux Dog Soldiers from the Fire Pit by 40%.
  • Dutch Advanced Church Waardgelders is missing the CheckLandHCGatherPoint Flag, so players can research this w/o shipment dropoff points.
  • Incan Chasquis Messengers tech does not affect Aztec Coyote Runners or Eagle Runner Knights.
  • Apache Endurance tech does not affect Aztec Coyote Runners or Eagle Runner Knights.
  • Cree Tanning tech does not affect Aztec Coyote Runners or Eagle Runner Knights.
  • Units: NatMercCheyenneRider is missing the MercType1 abstract definition; Assassins will not have a bonus against them.
  • Units: NatMercHuronMantlet is missing the MercType1 abstract definition; Assassins will not have a bonus against them.
  • German "Solingen Steel" does not give 4 Uhlans.
  • Cards: Sioux Onikare card can be resent when the player hits Imperial Age.
  • Rodeleros siege damange was changed to 10 attack in Patch 1.02, but Cover mode still also has 10 damage.
  • Green healing aura effect for priest heals causing lag

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  • KingsRansom
    Skirmisher
    posted 03-01-07 08:53 PM EDT (US)     249 / 445       
    Cool thx Stone im usually to lazy to look for that stuff

    seems like alot of QQ'ing is going on about the patch, E-Peens are getting bigger!


    "Obstacles do not exist to be surrendered to, but only to be broken." - Adolf Hitler

    Proud citizen of Sovietcanuckistan.

    ~92% of teens have moved on to rap. If you are part of the 8% who still listen to real music, copy and paste this into your sig.~
    exc4libulz1022
    Skirmisher
    posted 03-01-07 08:55 PM EDT (US)     250 / 445       

    Quote:

    Lol it will be interesting to see if in a few weeks there are a million Otto UP topics...

    personally id like that almost as much as if spain was nerfed back to the stone age for a while. otto have been OP since day 1 (i think...i played since late 2005, took a break sometime in 2006, but at all times ive played ottos have had top tier win %) then SR was discovered and the laming just got lamer. i even used them in vanilla because i couldnt beat them hardly ever. if otto become UP with this, i would just laugh.

    however, i dont think theyll be UP. jans still have TANK hp, SR is still in. i think they can all just go cry because their "core unit" which just happened to counter EVERYTHING in colonial (and fort for that matter) except large amounts of cav, and they somehow believe that they deserve this unit.

    by the way, kings ransom, that is not a quote of Johnny Cash lol. it was originally written by Benjamin Franklin as one of Poor Richard's aphorisms.


    "he will have a hard getting banks up"
    ~rel4xed

    "I accidently drop kicked someone once"
    ~george_uk

    [This message has been edited by exc4libulz1022 (edited 03-01-2007 @ 08:58 PM).]

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