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Topic Subject: Tashunke Prowlers..
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posted 03-07-07 00:56 AM EDT (US)   
Hey guys, I will be posting a strat centered around Tashunke within a few days, most likely when the new patch comes out, but first I would like to see what the communities views on the tashunke prowler is right now. Do you think their UP? OP? Regular? Just want to know. thnks mates.

"Smear's WarChief tumbles through the stage, leaps off of it right onto Mokon's car in front of the stage."
Full Guides:
~Sioux Survival Guide: The Last Stand
~The Tashunke Shank: A New Hope
Mini Guides:
~Sioux vs French: Napoleons Downfall
Replies:
posted 03-07-07 07:14 PM EDT (US)     26 / 56  
Good good your catching on lol. Tashunke are very good, Iv narrowed my strat down to a couple BO'ers,

A classic all 18 tashunke with 2 tc's and around 40 villagers at 11 minutes, very succeptable to rush though.

A more usable 10 tashunke and 9 wakina around 9 minutes, with the 9 wakina coming as first fortress card so you will get the wakina around 8 minutes, Doesnt work vs rush either but hey, why would you ff vs a rush anyway?

And then The delayed tashunke FF which is a normal FF and unit spam and then go tashunke.


"Smear's WarChief tumbles through the stage, leaps off of it right onto Mokon's car in front of the stage."
Full Guides:
~Sioux Survival Guide: The Last Stand
~The Tashunke Shank: A New Hope
Mini Guides:
~Sioux vs French: Napoleons Downfall
posted 03-07-07 07:46 PM EDT (US)     27 / 56  
I've been overwhelmed more by rr, clubs, and wakinas than attacked by tashunkes.

ESO Nickname: Eisenhower
Favorite Age 3 character: Sahin the Falcon
Unban James Lock!
posted 03-07-07 07:48 PM EDT (US)     28 / 56  
Thats cuz nobody uses them :-P I'm here to change that.

"Smear's WarChief tumbles through the stage, leaps off of it right onto Mokon's car in front of the stage."
Full Guides:
~Sioux Survival Guide: The Last Stand
~The Tashunke Shank: A New Hope
Mini Guides:
~Sioux vs French: Napoleons Downfall
posted 03-08-07 03:05 AM EDT (US)     29 / 56  
I used to use them and then I realized it was a lot less micro intensive to just make Axe riders :P

Plus I love fast units and stealthing around is sloooowwwww


Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan
posted 03-08-07 07:51 AM EDT (US)     30 / 56  
Just cuz the stealth features there mate doesnt meen you have to use it. It can really help sometimes though.

"Smear's WarChief tumbles through the stage, leaps off of it right onto Mokon's car in front of the stage."
Full Guides:
~Sioux Survival Guide: The Last Stand
~The Tashunke Shank: A New Hope
Mini Guides:
~Sioux vs French: Napoleons Downfall
posted 03-08-07 12:53 PM EDT (US)     31 / 56  
I really don't have much hope for these guys unless they're fighting vils. Put them in a battle and their numbers are quickly reduced. Smear I hope your strat takes that into account somehow.

agecommunity quote of the month Ok i have payed for this game for al my moneythat i get in a month so when i go online isee these 9 year old kids that beat me that have played for 2 weeks and i have played since release of vanilla so im pretty pissed of that es dosent want to do anything about the balance of the game.
posted 03-08-07 01:29 PM EDT (US)     32 / 56  

Quoted from Smear:

And then The delayed tashunke FF which is a normal FF and unit spam and then go tashunke.

This is probably your best bet. I think going early tashunke is too risky.

I think tashunkes are a great late game tool, late fortress/industrial. They can really hack into your opponents eco. Also useful for getting past the HI layer or whatever and reaching the LI* and the cannons. I just feel like I wouldn't know what to do with them early on. They're hard to mass earlier on and for them it's really power in numbers. If they don't have numbers, they're weak.

In fortress I prefer just massing wakinas like theres no tomorrow and axe riders/rifle riders/bow riders depending on the civ.


Previously known as MoNo Ager

[This message has been edited by George_uk (edited 03-08-2007 @ 05:47 PM).]

posted 03-08-07 03:54 PM EDT (US)     33 / 56  
I was telling smear earlier, I think they are the most cost effective Heavy cav since Cuirassiers.

I think they are better then lancers because unlike lancers they don't do that cruddy 20 damage to vills.


*WINDOWS CRITICAL ERROR 19891126*
Product ID: Ossian Discontinued
Contact your network admin for more details
about this special edition of player...

Allthough cetans are darker, did you know that if you read the word 'cetan' as a dutch word, that you get the same sound as when reading 'satan' in english.-Furby Killer
posted 03-08-07 04:01 PM EDT (US)     34 / 56  

Quoted from Ossian:

I think they are better then lancers because unlike lancers they don't do that cruddy 20 damage to vills.


You know what else doesn't do a crappy 20 damage to villagers?
Axe Riders and Dog Soliders.

Also, start losing Tashunke Prowlers, and you'll envy those Lancers' "cruddy" 20 damage, when your Tashunke are doing 15-18 ...

Seriously, Tashunke Prowlers are the absolute worst cavalry in game aside from Uhlans. No strategy is gonna change that, I'm afraid.


"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
posted 03-08-07 05:33 PM EDT (US)     35 / 56  
ender you must be kidding

i just so happen to have prooff that the iroqois kanya horse is far weaker than the tashunke prowler or the uhlan

in fact, even in a free for al combat situation, the kanya horse will be the first to die

evidence

[This message has been edited by Stonewall J (edited 03-08-2007 @ 08:26 PM).]

posted 03-08-07 05:43 PM EDT (US)     36 / 56  
Well that settles it!

ESO: JarlNick

Want to talk OP? AOE3 Abus Guns at release were nightmares. But I knew how to take care of them! Beware my Culverins you artillery bastards! Oh wait...- MNBob

posted 03-08-07 05:44 PM EDT (US)     37 / 56  
*blink*

[This message has been edited by Stonewall J (edited 03-12-2007 @ 07:08 AM).]

posted 03-08-07 05:57 PM EDT (US)     38 / 56  
Ender, why do you think their so bad? They cost 303 VS compared to 257 axe rider.

By the time you've made 18, you could have made 21 axe riders. Not much of a difference. Attack wise, TP > AR until they start dying. To stop them from dying quickly, use the stealth function to get straight to what they need to counter. They have better siege than axeriders and are many times better at killing vills. They also are better at killing LI*, by unstealthing within melee range.

Sooo why ender?


Previously known as MoNo Ager
posted 03-08-07 06:38 PM EDT (US)     39 / 56  
Tashunke Prowler. 150 Food 75 Gold (450 food 225 coin for veteran stats)
Health: 170 (204)
Attack: 15 (18) (Maximum attack of 40)
Resistance: 10% Ranged
[Stats in ( ) are 3 prowlers = 20% more hp/attk.]

Veteran Uhlan. 50 food 100 gold (200 gold 200 wood for vet)
Health: 228
Attack: 44
Resistance: 10% Ranged

Elite Kanya Horseman. 100 food 75 wood (200 wood 100 coin for elite)
Health: 338
Attack: 31
Resistance: 10% Ranged

Solo the prowler would definatly lose this and to make them have equivlent of a Veteran stat you would need 3 of them. They are definatly worse than Kanya and Uhlans.

To bring a Tashunke Prowler up to it's damage cap of 40 requires the use of 18 Prowlers total, and if that damage cap affects combat cards or the attack dance, the Prowlers are completely useless but if not, combined with stealth they're going to be much much stronger than Uhlans or Kanya, although more expensive and pop heavy.

Odd though their Siege is capped at 30 and their Trample is capped at 80, so either ES screwed something up or they're incapable of doing more than 40 damage despite attack dance and cards and fire dance.


Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan

[This message has been edited by LordKivlov (edited 03-08-2007 @ 06:44 PM).]

posted 03-08-07 07:02 PM EDT (US)     40 / 56  
Once you start losing your tashunke? Ill tell you what mate, Unless your enemy goes Pure Ranged cav, which they wont cuz you have wakina, then your tashunke can take out almost anything without losing more then 2 tashunke themselfs, You just have to play it smart and micro your cav, not just suicide them into things..

"Smear's WarChief tumbles through the stage, leaps off of it right onto Mokon's car in front of the stage."
Full Guides:
~Sioux Survival Guide: The Last Stand
~The Tashunke Shank: A New Hope
Mini Guides:
~Sioux vs French: Napoleons Downfall
posted 03-08-07 11:29 PM EDT (US)     41 / 56  
Hehe, Ottoman players aren't used to having to micro units what with Abus and all :P

Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan
posted 03-09-07 00:05 AM EDT (US)     42 / 56  
haha forgot about that xD

P.S. Strat will either be up later tonight, if i can get my BO down on paper, Or tomaro since its friday. Thanks for the opinions mate they helped.


"Smear's WarChief tumbles through the stage, leaps off of it right onto Mokon's car in front of the stage."
Full Guides:
~Sioux Survival Guide: The Last Stand
~The Tashunke Shank: A New Hope
Mini Guides:
~Sioux vs French: Napoleons Downfall
posted 03-09-07 00:12 AM EDT (US)     43 / 56  
They're a little like Native-American Opris, but not as great. Still enough to be somewhat (a little) OP.

-on a sidenote, keeping with the concept of Forest Prowlers= frowlers, we should have Tashunke Prowlers= trowlers.

[This message has been edited by General_II (edited 03-09-2007 @ 00:12 AM).]

posted 03-09-07 00:30 AM EDT (US)     44 / 56  
and jags, Jowlers.
aha

no cuase we cant say to frowlers, forest, cuase forest is another thing, but we can say tashk or tashunke to tashuke, and jags to jaguar prowl knghits.

posted 03-09-07 09:59 AM EDT (US)     45 / 56  

Quote:

Tashunke Prowler. 150 Food 75 Gold (450 food 225 coin for veteran stats)
Health: 170 (204)
Attack: 15 (18) (Maximum attack of 40)
Resistance: 10% Ranged

First, they don't have a "maximum attack" -- they have a damagecap, which applies to how much total damage their area attack deals, and which increases proportionally to their attack value. This is so that units with a damagearea, like the tashunke, don't own densely packed enemy units too hard. And for the tashunkes, their damagecap is actually a bonus of sorts -- their damagecap is 2.67 times their attack values, whereas a cuirassier has a damagecap of 2 times their attack value, for instance.

As for their attack value, it increases by 10% of their starting attack (including cards and upgrades) per prowler within a set range (20), and their hit points similarly increases by 5% per prowler within the same range.

For example: If you have 12 unupgraded prowlers, their hp will each be 263. If you upgrade the prowlers with the cavalry combat card, cavalry hp card, and and the Sioux big button tech at the farm, their base hp will be 238 each -- and when they're 12 together, they'll each have 368 hp. If you take the New Ways card and get cavalry breastplate, along with the Tashunke support card, you can get them up to 297 base hp, or 461 each for 12 (550 each for 18).

Similarly, their attack value, starting out at 15, upgrades to a base of 19.5 with the cavalry combat and cavalry damage cards. With 12 prowlers, that gets to 40. With 18, it gets to 52. If you do the full war dance with 25 vills, it gets to 53 or 68, respectively. If you also happen to have the command skill card and the teepee damage aura active, it can get higher still -- to over 80 damage, but that's not a very likely scenario.

Another thing is that the aura effect applies whether the tashunkes are stealthed or not. Which means you can unstealth a couple and have them derive the full benefits of whichever stealthy tashunkes are also in the area.


<Witty signature goes here.>
posted 03-09-07 12:12 PM EDT (US)     46 / 56  
Well I don't know about you guys, but they are definitely not as bad as I thought they were! Their attack is awesome, and the HP isn't too shabby. They can definitely compete well against industrial units and pwn fortress units with the upgrades. They're not too shabby in imperial either as raiders. It's amazing how much they benefit from the upgrades compared to other cav. And also the war dance affects them more than other units due to the trample damage.

Previously known as MoNo Ager
posted 03-09-07 04:56 PM EDT (US)     47 / 56  
@mark, Thanks so much for clarifying that man, i am no good at statistics and whatnot so its finally good to see what the attack of 18 upgraded prowlers are, i never knew but i suspected it was somewhere around 60. Thanks mate

"Smear's WarChief tumbles through the stage, leaps off of it right onto Mokon's car in front of the stage."
Full Guides:
~Sioux Survival Guide: The Last Stand
~The Tashunke Shank: A New Hope
Mini Guides:
~Sioux vs French: Napoleons Downfall
posted 03-09-07 07:40 PM EDT (US)     48 / 56  
Thanks mark, I was wondering why it had a Max/Cap thing on their attack and was a little worried about it.

Also, every other units stats are based off their Base stats, am I just reading wrong or are Trowlers (hehe) an exception to this?

15x1.30=19.5x2.10=40.95
15x2.10=31.5+4.5=36

Now are they the 36 damage or the 41 damage, every other unit would be 36 but by your math its 41 soo.. ?


Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan

[This message has been edited by LordKivlov (edited 03-09-2007 @ 07:46 PM).]

posted 03-10-07 07:10 AM EDT (US)     49 / 56  

Quote:

Also, every other units stats are based off their Base stats, am I just reading wrong or are Trowlers (hehe) an exception to this?

Yes and no. It's a multiplier effect, so it's based off their base stats, but doesn't add linearly like regular upgrades do.

The same is the case with several other effects in the game, mostly native-oriented; the various dances and warchief/teepee auras in particular.

For instance, with the following in effect:
- Command Skill card
- Full war dance (25 villagers)
- Cavalry Combat and Cavalry Damage cards
- Marauders card
- Friendly Territory card (w/1 teepee)

... you'd get a total damage output per unit for a group of 18 tashunkes looking something like this:

151.3, 1.1, 1.3, 2.7, 1.1

Of course, that is a rather extreme scenario. As best I can determine, though, that is how those effects work.


<Witty signature goes here.>
posted 03-10-07 07:36 AM EDT (US)     50 / 56  

Quote:

- Cavalry Combat and Cavalry Damage cards

I'm pretty sure these were based upon base stats...

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