Adam writes:
In my opinion, jan and abus is a pretty easy combo to micro.
Not when you're facing good cavalry (Lancers, Cuirassiers, Axe Riders/Dig Sodiers w/Warchief, Mercs, upgraded Coyote Runners) and good infantry (Prowlers, Wakinas, Skirmishers) or cannons.Janissaries' very poor anti-cav abilities and Abus Guns extreme vulnerability to all melee units makes it a more difficult combination to micro in TWC (and actually ever since the Hussar HP boost). In vanilla I may have agreed with you, but TWC is a whole 'nother universe when it comes to threats to Jan/Abus. You can actually be facing a 368HP and 34.5 attack Hussar or a 287.5HP and 40.25 attack Axe Rider in Colonial, when that would never have happened in vanilla.
Jan/Abus is also not what it used to be in TWC, because it is often an "incomplete" combo that falls prey to new threats. You try doing nothing but Jan/Abus against Sioux, for example, and you'll pay for it dearly.
You say I FF for Hussars and Cav Archers "sometimes"? No, friend, in TWC I've been doing so in half my games (how do you think I have made 1000 Cav Archers to Dopple's 18 when he has 245 games with Ottomans compared to my 308?), as the replays I post at Age Sanctuary show.
As opposed to my vanilla replays, where I could get away with Jan/Abus in 90% of the games, while adding Falconets in the other 10% of 'em.
By the way, where are you getting those stats?
I've produced 2407 Hussars and 1265 Cavalry Archers in TWC thus far. I also managed to produce 1089 Falconets and 312 Ronin (Schilpad, I'm looking in your direction ...).
Dopple has made 1222 Hussars, 18 Cav Archers (you got those right) and only 660 Falconets, for comparison.
Take into consideration, also, that Dopple loves sending the 3 and 5 Hussar cards in most games, while I don't even have those cards in any of my decks. I produce all of mine locally or get 4 max Hussars per game from age up.
My stats also show a ton of minor natives used, while Dopple has nearly none of those.
These days I make substantial use of Mercs (including Ronin), Hussars, Cav Archers, Falconets and Spahi. As well as some Horse Cannons or Great Bombards if the game lasts to Industrial.
And yes, Adam, I do actually consider myself to have relatively good micro.
Not Matt's level micro, certainly, but relatively good when I'm playing in a "good" state (i.e. not inebriated, half asleep or just dog tired after a 14 hour work day). As I already said, find me somebody who can take out Falconets with Abus Guns as effectively as I do it, for example.
I'm certainly an inconsistent player, though. I can play really well one game, win against a player 100 cuetech and 5 PR above me, then lose to a person 100 cuetech and 5 PR below me the next day, because I played in a completely different state of mind.
The infrequency with which I play also has an effect on my micro. I tend to "recover" after a few games, but initially play horribly after a week or longer break from the game.
SahintheFalcon writes:
1. Play ottoman. Do a silk road rush with 15-20 jans and 5-10 abus. Engage the enemy army. Then go back to your town center and spend 5 seconds ordering villagers around. Go back to your army. See what it looks like now. It'll probably only have jans in it.
2. Play iroquois. Do a standard LI/HI rush. Or try ff'ing. Let's say that halfway into the game you find yourself with an army of 20 tomas and 30 prowlers, plus some other token support units. Once you see the enemy army right-click on the lead enemy unit. Then go move some settlers around for 5 seconds. See what happens. Your army will be smaller, but perfectly functionable.
Absolutely excellent example. What the Ottoman haters don't realise is just how much effort we have to put into protecting those Abus Guns with the craptastic against cav Janssaries. How much attention we have to devote to the fight, because our armies are not the "hand's off" types of other civs, but require tremendous amounts of micro to work.
"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
[This message has been edited by Ender_Ward (edited 04-12-2007 @ 11:22 PM).]