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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » How should Thoroughbreds get nerfed?
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Topic Subject:How should Thoroughbreds get nerfed?
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theboywonder916
Skirmisher
posted 06-28-07 05:45 PM EDT (US)         
Ok so we know now that they are going to nerf France's Thoroughbred card next patch. The card now makes gendarme 2 population instead of 3. My guess is that they wont nerf it in by pop, like making it 2.5 pop because that would be cumbersome and not enough benifit to send the card. So i am thinking they will nerf the total cuirs you can make to like 40 and keep the card as is. What do you all think?

*UPDATE*
Some alternatives i was thinking of could be things like, this is all assuming the card now stays the same, 2 pop, but adds one of these stipulations.

-Make them much slower, like soligen (sp?) steal, the dopp card.
-Make them cost 20% more
-Tweak with the stable upgrades, make imperial upgrade the same as guard, 25% HP/attack?

[This message has been edited by theboywonder916 (edited 06-28-2007 @ 10:15 PM).]

AuthorReplies:
SmashNBash
Skirmisher
posted 06-28-07 06:03 PM EDT (US)     1 / 44       
tehy should lose their area damage. that or take away 50% of their hp.

otherwise, make all other units 2 pop

Lolocausts are fun.
James Lock
Skirmisher
posted 06-28-07 06:04 PM EDT (US)     2 / 44       
I like that idea.

A few ideas that have been mentioned are:

Nerfing the cuir's stats when the card is sent.
Changing the upgrade base for cuirs so their maximum is lower (Imperial)
Make the card cost resources?

Thanks to all those that signed the petition to get me unbanned here.
And special thanks to smashnbash for making it.
somme
Skirmisher
posted 06-28-07 06:12 PM EDT (US)     3 / 44       
Make the card cost 2000 coin to send!

ESO : Pcfreak8
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is." -Jan L. A. van de Snepscheu
A pessimist is usually right and never disappointed.
Any history buff knows that nothing stops a cannon like a good uppercut. - BeatnikJoe
Pale Horse
Skirmisher
posted 06-28-07 06:20 PM EDT (US)     4 / 44       
Answer one question: Can they be countered by all civs, 1v1, given FU French stats (no team or Native bonuses) at 3 pop slots?

If they can, at what point between 3 slots and 2 slots do they become unstoppable spam?

If they are to take 2 slots, should they not then be weaker units (fewer hit points, lowered resistance, less attack)?

NOOB'XPERT wannabe

[This message has been edited by Pale Horse (edited 06-28-2007 @ 06:23 PM).]

radradrobotanks
Skirmisher
posted 06-28-07 06:30 PM EDT (US)     5 / 44       
Best idea I've heard so far: put a build limit on them when the card is sent.
SmashNBash
Skirmisher
posted 06-28-07 06:49 PM EDT (US)     6 / 44       
nah just give a penalty vs everything. or just make them cost 500 food, 500 gold to even it out. hell, at 950 HP, the should cost that much...

Lolocausts are fun.
Eicho
Skirmisher
posted 06-28-07 07:03 PM EDT (US)     7 / 44       
vega has said they will TOTALLY RECHANGE the card.

*dances in closed thread*
Angel Walker
Skirmisher
(id: Just a player)
posted 06-28-07 07:11 PM EDT (US)     8 / 44       
That doesn't mean we can't try to figure out how it'll work, Eicho

Still, even if they do, the card would still affect Cuirassiers. I find a bit unlikely for the current bonus go away... but if it does, I have no idea what could it be. Just one more boost in their stats? A pointless Faster Training Cuirassiers card? The only option might be a Cheaper Cuirassiers Card, so it wouldn't have a huge impact in late game.

ESO - Walker

>> Napoleonic Era --> Visit their Homepage!
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Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 06-28-07 07:39 PM EDT (US)     9 / 44       
Best suggestion so far was at Age Sanctuary:

Thoroughbreds: transforms all Hussars into Cuirassiers.

Would work the same as Suvorov's Reforms or Traliures (or however you spell that one). Yes, it would give French two "transformation" cards, but that's a small price to pay for getting their late game back to some semblance of sanity.

"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
Garlef
Skirmisher
posted 06-28-07 07:48 PM EDT (US)     10 / 44       
Ender,
What happens if player with 80 CdB, 40 Skirms has 40 Hussars?

Does he get to exceed his pop limit?
James Lock
Skirmisher
posted 06-28-07 07:48 PM EDT (US)     11 / 44       
I don't think completely changing the card is fair. I would be in tears (not literally :P) if they changed sevastopol to "Upgrades all walls for free" or "Increases blockhouse build limit".

Thanks to all those that signed the petition to get me unbanned here.
And special thanks to smashnbash for making it.
Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 06-28-07 07:52 PM EDT (US)     12 / 44       
Ender,
What happens if player with 80 CdB, 40 Skirms has 40 Hussars?

Does he get to exceed his pop limit?
Sure (like native BB techs tend to let them go massively over the pop limit, for example). But it's a one time deal only. He doesn't get to abuse the card over and over and over ...

"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
steve09
Skirmisher
posted 06-28-07 09:10 PM EDT (US)     13 / 44       
i was maybe thinking you could turn them sorta into a mameluke unit, by giving them more hp like about 200 or so while losing their area attack would that work?

quoted from jafit talking smack about ender in regards to the abus nerf: "He's probably in a fetal position on the floor holding an action figure abus gun."
Sundalo50
Skirmisher
posted 06-28-07 10:44 PM EDT (US)     14 / 44       
its a simple fix. I don't even know why you guys are trying to make it useful.

Just make it the opposite; un-useful, so it can join the ranks of many other cards that no one ever sends ala white fleet, Spanish riding school, strelet horde, house of baranka, that card that changed pikes into rodeleros is coming to mind.

How about this;
Hussars 10% speed boost
or
all stables spawn 1 cuir
or
stables now cost 1 wood and hussars/dragoons are 20% cheaper.
or
make it provide all guard upgrades for all cavalry for 2000 wood

I am out of ideas. Either way France is fine without thoroughbreds actually being useful.
TheRomans
Skirmisher
posted 06-28-07 11:16 PM EDT (US)     15 / 44       
Lets make Spahis ridiculously OP, make them 1 pop, and trainable from the stable. Get a taste of your own medicine France!

On a serious note: I could tell how broken this card would be before the game even came out.

+----------+
| PLEASE |
| DO NOT |
| FEED THE |
| TROLLS |
+----------+
ultimitsu
Skirmisher
posted 06-29-07 01:50 AM EDT (US)     16 / 44       
there are two ways to nerf this card:

creative way - in which the card gets to keep its original intention but brings in other effects to make it more balanced, personally i dont think it should be a negative effect such as make them less powerful or more expensive. my pefered change is to change all ranged cavalry in the game to 1 pop, for opponent as well.

conservative way - in which the card' effect is completely changed to something that is more conventional and balanced. My perfered change would be cuir speed increase 15%, this would be similar to the effect of sioux's DS merc card.
Grellen
Skirmisher
posted 06-29-07 02:05 AM EDT (US)     17 / 44       
Making it a one time change card like the Sioux's Ar to Rr would still allow them to not only exceed population max, but still be able to retain the initial strike of a very large force of very powerfull calvery. To say after those take out x amount of an opponents forces and the extra gendarme die off that the game's still balanced would be an understatement.

The card should have the population reduction removed all together, and have one or more of the features added,
1. Increase damage multiplier toward X
2. Increase area of strike from 2 to 3
3. Decrease training time dramatically
4. Decrease cost per unit.
5. Increase speed.
6. Increase resistance to either range/melee(hand)/artillery
7. General upgrade to hit points and/or attack strength.
Major Helper
AoKH Survivor, Mr. White Teeth
posted 06-29-07 04:15 AM EDT (US)     18 / 44       
ive never understood whats the point of plus 10/15% speed...it doesnt seem to be any use at all.

rather give cuirs a build limit or something

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Medio
Skirmisher
(id: Mediolanus)
posted 06-29-07 04:52 AM EDT (US)     19 / 44       
conservative way - in which the card' effect is completely changed to something that is more conventional and balanced. My perfered change would be cuir speed increase 15%, this would be similar to the effect of sioux's DS merc card.
Sounds like Spanish Riding school to me (the German card that was nerfed too).
Eskaton8
Skirmisher
posted 06-29-07 05:03 AM EDT (US)     20 / 44       
Hi,

If Thoroughbreds is beeing nerfed or taken away, French will drop to the bottom. French now are on a balanced middle-place, don't change what is balanced, damn you, just boost the other civs is the way ES works !!!

Eskaton


The Wolf is Master of Illusion,and so is Wolf of Destruction...
MusketKing
Skirmisher
posted 06-29-07 05:06 AM EDT (US)     21 / 44       
Make it so Cuirs get an auto heal option.
Like Spahi do but faster.
*dances in closed thread*
*Shakes head in dissapointment*

"The better at AoE, the worse at RL" - Doppel
After someone suggesting to make a meatshield to fight off petards..."Where can I find this meatshield? Is it in the TC?" - Sjalle

"That last comment has earned you a ban Musk" - Solus
On realising I was on a 2nd account:"Quinarvy ehhh" - Solus

RUSSIAN CIVIL WAR - VERY GG
Mine and Micky's OPness
ultimitsu
Skirmisher
posted 06-29-07 05:38 AM EDT (US)     22 / 44       
Sounds like Spanish Riding school to me (the German card that was nerfed too).
that is true.

that german card is largely useless because late game german dont rely massed cavalry 50% the time.

whereas french always masses cuirs, 7.25 speed cuirs would be nice.
Beatnik Joe
Skirmisher
posted 06-29-07 09:30 AM EDT (US)     23 / 44       
My perfered change would be cuir speed increase 15%
Yeah, I'm partial to this answer as well -- Thoroughbreds are a fast breed of horse. I've always thought it strange that this card modifies pop space use of all things.

Strategies:
- BWKiC - A British Fast Fortress strategy
- The Aztec Scout Slam- An Envoy Rush, Native-Style
windrider
Skirmisher
(id: frankle)
posted 06-29-07 10:04 AM EDT (US)     24 / 44       
At age sanc, vega said:
Because I'm a nice, charming, good looking, and pretty darn funny guy, I will give a patch note. (singular)

Thoroughbreds will be changing -

Instead of 2 pop cuirs, they will be changed to....
...
...
1 pop.

GG
what do you think?

"There is one quite often recalled, attributed to several sources, which was given following Jackson's extraordinary performance on September 13, 1847. it is a comment that could have applied to so many, an extraordinary generation of American soldiers: 'He will be heard from again.'" - Jeff Shaara
MusketKing
Skirmisher
posted 06-29-07 10:19 AM EDT (US)     25 / 44       
what do you think?
That you're too gullible for your own good

"The better at AoE, the worse at RL" - Doppel
After someone suggesting to make a meatshield to fight off petards..."Where can I find this meatshield? Is it in the TC?" - Sjalle

"That last comment has earned you a ban Musk" - Solus
On realising I was on a 2nd account:"Quinarvy ehhh" - Solus

RUSSIAN CIVIL WAR - VERY GG
Mine and Micky's OPness
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