You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

General Discussions
Moderated by Maffia, LordKivlov, JimXIX

Hop to:    
Welcome! You are not logged in. Please Login or Register.49 replies, Closed
Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » I want to correct you about Cavalry Archer
Bottom
Topic Subject:I want to correct you about Cavalry Archer
« Previous Page  1 2  Next Page »
PredatoR_TR
Skirmisher
posted 10-27-07 02:29 PM EDT (US)         


Hi friends. AOE3 has been released 2 years ago and i know it is a bit late but I just want to correct you about Cavalry Archers.

As you know, only The Ottomans and Russia have them. However Cavalry Archers of Russia is stronger than cavalry archers of The Ottomans. ( + 27 HP, +1 siege attack, +1 range attack) Cavalry Archers of The Ottomans named as Cavalry Archer and Russian ones named as Tartar Loyalist.

Firstly, where 'does the name of '' Tartar '' come from. It comes from Crimea. what is Tartar? actually they are TATAR, not Tartar. lots of name are wrong in AOE3 like Spahi (Orginally Sipahi),

Baratcu (orginally Barutcu or Barutçu), etc. TATARS are one of Turk race since the history of Turks knew. Firstly, they lived in Middle Asia, then immigrate to the west and land to Crimea. From Seljuks, Golden Horde to the Ottomans, Crimea belonged to the Turks. From 15. century until end of 19. century, Crimea belonged to the Ottomans. Tatars have been living in Crimea and they have been Muslim.

Soldier of Tatars were used by The Ottomans and they had been loyal to the Ottomans because same races never betray each other and also they are Muslim.

As all history lovers know, for Turks, horse have been holy animal and the best weapon that Turks have used is ARCHER. while riding a horse, even hitting a small bird is piece a cake for the Turk archers.

As i mentioned, even if the period of game and realism say us that TATARS are Turk and belong to The Ottomans, why have Tatar archers given to Russians, i really cant find a logic.
AuthorReplies:
schildpad
Skirmisher
posted 10-27-07 02:41 PM EDT (US)     1 / 49       
Correct us? You mean ES i suppose. Many names were translated/changes so english speaking people can also pronounce them.

Also there are many more things wrong in aoe3, but who cares?
because same races never betray each other
omg, you dont seriously believe that?
also they are Muslim
Muslims never attack other muslims? You have been bit sleepy during your history lessons.
As i mentioned, even if the period of game and realism say us that TATARS are Turk and belong to The Ottomans, why have Tatar archers given to Russians, i really cant find a logic.
Formerly, it was believed that the name Tatar derived from the name Tartarus,[2] the Greek name for the underworld; this belief led to the frequent spelling and pronunciation of the name with an extra "r", to conform with the classical Greek word. However, this provenance is unlikely since the Tatars use this name for themselves. The name may be related to the old Chinese word "ta-tan" or "da-dan",[3] and more specifically to the Ta-Ta Mongols.
And how about:
Tatars (Tatar: Tatarlar/Татарла&# 1088, sometimes spelled Tartar (more about the name), is a name for a Turkic ethnic group of Eastern Europe, as well as a collective name for other various peoples in Asia.
Sorry, tatars are not only ottomans, also in russia they live.

"such a kind fellow!" ~ ķįŋğ_Ćħŗĩš_ĬĬ

Furby killer should be crowned leader of AOE forum ~ [SW_GD]Teutonic

Eicho
Skirmisher
posted 10-27-07 03:14 PM EDT (US)     2 / 49       
You are complaining because Tartar Loyalist are Russian in this game and not Ottomans?

Thats minor, if you complain about that, why dont complain about Ottoman never went to America?
Germany never 'revolted' into Argentina..
There where no Mayans when Europeans arrived...

GamePlay > History, and much more in a little special case about names and this one.
Think of Russia archers and Cav Archers, and Ottoman ones as Tartars, okay? then we will all be ok.
PredatoR_TR
Skirmisher
posted 10-27-07 03:17 PM EDT (US)     3 / 49       
Correct us? You mean ES i suppose. Many names were translated/changes so english speaking people can also pronounce them.

Also there are many more things wrong in aoe3, but who cares?
because same races never betray each other
omg, you dont seriously believe that?
also they are Muslim
Muslims never attack other muslims? You have been bit sleepy during your history lessons.
As i mentioned, even if the period of game and realism say us that TATARS are Turk and belong to The Ottomans, why have Tatar archers given to Russians, i really cant find a logic.
Formerly, it was believed that the name Tatar derived from the name Tartarus,[2] the Greek name for the underworld; this belief led to the frequent spelling and pronunciation of the name with an extra "r", to conform with the classical Greek word. However, this provenance is unlikely since the Tatars use this name for themselves. The name may be related to the old Chinese word "ta-tan" or "da-dan",[3] and more specifically to the Ta-Ta Mongols.
And how about:
Tatars (Tatar: Tatarlar/Татарла&# 1088, sometimes spelled Tartar (more about the name), is a name for a Turkic ethnic group of Eastern Europe, as well as a collective name for other various peoples in Asia.
Sorry, tatars are not only ottomans, also in russia they live.
I mean both ES and people. i also want people to know true history. I dont care name also, just correct people and ES again.

I dont know other races but Turks are generally loyal to each other. Let me give an example; Osman Bey who was establisher of The Ottomans marry with daugther of leader of Germiyanogullari and leader gave land to The Ottomans.

Muslim attacks each other as we know in WW 1 and also now in 21. century. it was just another example to show that they were part of The Ottos.

There is no relation with Greeks so i pass this information.

Tatars have lived in russia after 19. century and there is still Tatars because they were Turk lands. we are talking about centuries between 15. and 19. During period of game and If the nation is The Ottomans, Tatars must be in The Ottomans, Not in Russia

You are complaining because Tartar Loyalist are Russian in this game and not Ottomans?
Thats minor, if you complain about that, why dont complain about Ottoman never went to America?
Germany never 'revolted' into Argentina..
There where no Mayans when Europeans arrived...

GamePlay > History, and much more in a little special case about names and this one.
Think of Russia archers and Cav Archers, and Ottoman ones as Tartars, okay? then we will all be ok.
If The Ottomans hadnt gone to America, why the first map of America was drawn by Piri Reis? Just The Ottomans didnt establish a colony there.

If Gameplay > History, Tatars must be in The Ottomans because after decreasing attack of Janissaries, The Ottomans have been very weak against cavalary.

[This message has been edited by PredatoR_TR (edited 10-27-2007 @ 03:29 PM).]

micky_tee
Skirmisher
(id: micky_t)
posted 10-27-07 04:26 PM EDT (US)     4 / 49       
Shut up.

armyballer - Another 3v3, this time my team is winning, (about an hour into it). One of the other team players admits defeat and resigns, then out of no where I get OOS message. I'm pissed, I again log onto agecommunity and see I have been given a LOSE. How did this happen?

AceOfKings - ender_ward hacked into your game and made it go OOS

Unban JamesLock
PredatoR_TR
Skirmisher
posted 10-27-07 04:38 PM EDT (US)     5 / 49       
Micky_Tee

do you have a jealousy to The Ottomans? you can be polite a bit. If you dont know about this topic, just dont write unnecessary sentences...
Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 10-27-07 04:48 PM EDT (US)     6 / 49       
Tatar is what we Russians call 'em.

Tartar is the "official" name of that people in the rest of the world.

Are you also going to complain that there's no such thing as "Strelet", but in fact it's supposed to be "Streletz" ('shooter')?

Do you also complain that all too many people pronounce Sputnik as "Spuhtnik", instead of "Spootnick"? Well, actually, that irritates me too ...

Just relax and go with the flow. Moscow is also supposed to be Maskva, you know. But you can't really expect the rest of the world to use Russian pronunciations, even it's for Russian names. There are some letters in the Russian alphabet westerners can't even pronounce. Hell man, they can't even make the sound come out of their mouth, it's that different. And you want them to use the correct names? Keep dreaming.

"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
Angel Walker
Skirmisher
(id: Just a player)
posted 10-27-07 04:52 PM EDT (US)     7 / 49       
As others said it's no big deal. There are plenty inaccuracies in the game, though most are present to offer a better gameplay.

And micky_tee, no need to be so mean

ESO - Walker

>> Napoleonic Era --> Visit their Homepage!
"Holy *****" > Thunder (Ensemble Studios)

Retired from AoE3. But I do play AoK HD in Steam now and then.
PredatoR_TR
Skirmisher
posted 10-27-07 05:10 PM EDT (US)     8 / 49       
''''''Tatar is what we Russians call 'em.

Tartar is the "official" name of that people in the rest of the world.

Are you also going to complain that there's no such thing as "Strelet", but in fact it's supposed to be "Streletz" ('shooter')?

Do you also complain that all too many people pronounce Sputnik as "Spuhtnik", instead of "Spootnick"? Well, actually, that irritates me too ...

Just relax and go with the flow. Moscow is also supposed to be Maskva, you know. But you can't really expect the rest of the world to use Russian pronunciations, even it's for Russian names. There are some letters in the Russian alphabet westerners can't even pronounce. Hell man, they can't even make the sound come out of their mouth, it's that different. And you want them to use the correct names? Keep dreaming.'''''''

ya znayu russki yazık yesli tı hoches' govorit'

I dont care about names just i informed about names and there is no name that has been used ''Tartar'' neither in Russia nor in Turkish. but i still dont care it is used Tartar or Tatar.

my point: Turkish and Tatar Cavalry Archers or other Turkic country's Cavalry Archers have always been a source of glory for Turk race. They have been used even in some historical films. Also these lands belonged to the Ottomans from 15. century until end of 19.century.
So they must be in Ottomans, not in Russians. In history of Russia, Cavalry Archers werent popular and werent used much.

LordBob13
Skirmisher
posted 10-27-07 05:15 PM EDT (US)     9 / 49       
Lol you posted this exact thing over at agecommunity.

http://forum.agecommunity.com/forums/thread/597967.aspx

From a poster at Agecommunity (Talking about the 4 cow age up option):

"Only a noob like you doesn't realize how valueble it can be. That's 2000 food waiting to be gathered"
LOL
PredatoR_TR
Skirmisher
posted 10-27-07 05:22 PM EDT (US)     10 / 49       
'''''''Lol you posted this exact thing over at agecommunity.

http://forum.agecommunity.com/forums/thread/597967.aspx'''''''

Knowledge increases by sharing
Cheesewiz
HG Alumnus
posted 10-27-07 05:50 PM EDT (US)     11 / 49       
ya znayu russki yazık yesli tı hoches' govorit'
I need an English translation for that please.



Also, anyone who assumes that Age of Empires III is meant to be a history book is just plain wrong and missing the point.

Gameplay>Realism


Actually, if you want to be completely realistic about this whole thing, the Ottomans shouldn't even be in this game at all, they did not colonize the New World, and they were insignificant as a power by 1750, only left alone by Europe because they did bring stablity to that region.


Also, make quotes by typing [ q ] without the spaces. It'll make your posts more readable.

Ex-Seraph Cheesewiz - Former WICH Webmaster, AOE3H Webmaster, & RTWH Staff, HeavenGames LLC
World_in_Conflict_Heaven || Age_of_Empires_III_Heaven || Support_HeavenGames || The_Playpen || Do_The_Right_Thing

[This message has been edited by Cheesewiz (edited 10-27-2007 @ 05:51 PM).]

George_uk
Skirmisher
posted 10-27-07 06:06 PM EDT (US)     12 / 49       
I think someones a little too proud of Turky.

Previously known as MoNo Ager
PredatoR_TR
Skirmisher
posted 10-27-07 06:16 PM EDT (US)     13 / 49       
to Cheesewiz

''I know russian language if you want to talk'' i said in russian. there is no problem i think?

Ottos didnt colonize but they went to America. Look map of Piri Reis.

Just it is a very big mistake that is in aoe3. actually i dont use cavalry archer generally. sometimes i dont use at all.

to George_UK

even you dont know that I am Turk, Russian or Tatar or from any other countries, so before judging, do think twice.
Cancer of the Head
Skirmisher
(id: say1988)
posted 10-27-07 06:26 PM EDT (US)     14 / 49       
Also these lands belonged to the Ottomans from 15. century until end of 19.century.
Yet, Tatarstan was conquered by the Russians in the 16th century. And Tatars were widespread. They lived in many Russian territories throughout the time period of the game.

And Tartar is an alternate spelling. There may be more correct spellings, but Tartar is quite common in (at least) North America, where the people who made the game live.

Also not it is the Tartar Loyalist, whihc implies that a significant number weren't loyal (likely siding with the Turks).
I dont care about names just i informed about names and there is no name that has been used ''Tartar'' neither in Russia nor in Turkish. but i still dont care it is used Tartar or Tatar.
Wow, after translating and transliterating a word, there are a) different spellings and b) don't match the original term.
Qazitory
HG Alumnus
posted 10-27-07 06:27 PM EDT (US)     15 / 49       
''I know russian language if you want to talk'' i said in russian. there is no problem i think?
There isn't, but the official language here is English and it gets a bit difficult to moderate discussions if they are in a language our moderators don't understand, hence the request for translation. (http://forums.heavengames.com/support/tos.shtml

•Qazitory•
•AoE3 rating: Qazitory
My AoE3:TWC mods: QazUI - Treasure - Main Menu - Low Lag HC - Deck selection•
•Guide my keystrokes, keep my programs alive, protect me from viruses, back up my drive.•
John GrahamLeigh
Skirmisher
posted 10-27-07 06:30 PM EDT (US)     16 / 49       
As others have said, there are many things wrong with AoE3 as history. But this isn't one of them.

The Crimean Tartars (or Tatars) were a mix of Asiatic peoples including Mongols and Turks - a remnant of the Mongol Golden Horde which once ruled all of Russia and much of Central Asia. The Crimean Khanate was a vassal of the Ottoman Sultanate from 1475, and for the next three centuries Crimean Tartar troops formed an important part of the Ottoman army. So far, so good.

But there were many other "Tartar" peoples, in parts of Central Asia which the Russians conquered. The rest of the Golden Horde Khanate was conquered by Russia during the 16th century, and Tartar troops served in Russian armies throughout the AoE3 period. So the Russians are perfectly entitled to use Tartar cavalry archers. More so than the Ottomans, as the Russians detached the Crimean Khanate from the Ottomans in 1774 and then annexed the Crimea in 1783; after that, Crimean troops would be found only in Russian armies.

As for the Turks never fighting one another... how do you suppose Osman Beg and his descendants unified the minor states of Anatolia? By conquering them, of course. Then they subdued the Mamluks (also Turkish). The closest they came to being destroyed was in 1402 at the hands of the mighty Timur, another Turk from Central Asia. Meanwhile the Turks (or Turkmen) of Central Asia were constantly fighting one another until the Russians conquered them; after that they fought for the Russians, often against their Ottoman distant relatives.

It's also pretty difficult to say exactly who was a "Turk", a word not much used by the Ottomans who prided themselves on ruling a cosmopolitan empire. Many prominent Ottomans were actually Albanians (Ali Pasha of Janina, Mehmet Ali of Egypt); others were renegade Europeans who were said by their former compatriots to have "turned Turk".
Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 10-27-07 07:02 PM EDT (US)     17 / 49       
Offitzialnii yazik zdes Angliskii. Takshto davai na nyom prodolzhat.

Translation: the official language here is English. So let's stick to that.



P.S.
Somebody teach this guy to quote.

"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
PredatoR_TR
Skirmisher
posted 10-27-07 07:48 PM EDT (US)     18 / 49       
Offitzialnii yazik zdes Angliskii. Takshto davai na nyom prodolzhat.

Translation: the official language here is English. So let's stick to that.



P.S.
Somebody teach this guy to quote.
The Admin friend didnt ask a translation about that and not from you.
Everyone knows that here, offical language is English. Just i answered to one of our friend that said something russian.

I know how to quote, just it is easier what i did because there is no auto quote button.
falkstrife
Skirmisher
posted 10-27-07 07:59 PM EDT (US)     19 / 49       
Ottos didnt colonize but they went to America. Look map of Piri Reis
a map or two is no proof that the Ottomans were exploring the Americas, How do you not know that Piri Reis was simply extrapolating information from several charts into a single map.

(\__/) ESO - Falkstrife
(O.o ) “He who defends everything defends nothing.”
(> < ) -Friedrich der Große
U¯U
PredatoR_TR
Skirmisher
posted 10-27-07 08:33 PM EDT (US)     20 / 49       
a map or two is no proof that the Ottomans were exploring the Americas, How do you not know that Piri Reis was simply extrapolating information from several charts into a single map.
I dont claim that The Ottos explored America. Just The Ottos attepmted to go, they succeed but they didnt colonize. and the ships of Ottos werent suitable to stand to the ocean at 15. century.
Sir Snoopy
Skirmisher
posted 10-27-07 11:57 PM EDT (US)     21 / 49       
Who are you?
You're making everyone have not as much fun. No one really wants to hear about why you think that the game is inaccurate. It's a fun game, so leave us happy GAMERS (not historians) alone!

I'm sorry to any admin who might read this. I'm sorry for flaming, but I mean it.

Retired GameReplays.org Senior Replay Reviewer
World Class Drum Corps International Mellophonist 2009
Proud Winner of "Best Newbie Award" BFME2H, a long time ago
JarlNick
Skirmisher
posted 10-28-07 00:57 AM EDT (US)     22 / 49       
Man you really went all-out on him Snoopy!

ESO: JarlNick

Want to talk OP? AOE3 Abus Guns at release were nightmares. But I knew how to take care of them! Beware my Culverins you artillery bastards! Oh wait...- MNBob

Gomezd
Skirmisher
posted 10-28-07 01:07 AM EDT (US)     23 / 49       
Who are you to think that the guy has no right to express his thoughts or opinions on an open forum like this?

Who are you to tell anyone what they can and cant post about? I thought only admins could do that.
John GrahamLeigh
Skirmisher
posted 10-28-07 05:53 AM EDT (US)     24 / 49       
Sir Snoopy wrote:
Who are you?
You're making everyone have not as much fun. No one really wants to hear about why you think that the game is inaccurate. It's a fun game, so leave us happy GAMERS (not historians) alone!
Some of us are historians and interested in the historical basis for the game. If you're not, threads of this type needn't affect you at all.

My gripe with PredatoR_TR is that the basis for his complaint is incorrect, as I and others have pointed out, not that he made a historical-type complaint which he's quite entitled to do.

Carry on having fun and leave us happy historians alone.
Sir Snoopy
Skirmisher
posted 10-28-07 09:03 AM EDT (US)     25 / 49       
Man you really went all-out on him Snoopy!

*blushes* Thanks!
Some of us are historians and interested in the historical basis for the game. If you're not, threads of this type needn't affect you at all.
That's why the great admins created the History Forum! Also, we've already established that the game is historically innaccurate. I just would like for people to talk about history either:
Somewhere else
or in a less flaming matter
Who are you to think that the guy has no right to express his thoughts or opinions on an open forum like this?
It's just where and the way that he "corrected" us.
Carry on having fun and leave us happy historians alone.

"Discuss the latest news, game updates, interesting finds, the game itself and maybe even get a chance to talk to a developer or balance tester"
That's the definition for General discussions. I see no history involved there. No offence to you history people, but I just don't like people like Predator TR who go to the wrong threads and try to make people feel stupid.

Retired GameReplays.org Senior Replay Reviewer
World Class Drum Corps International Mellophonist 2009
Proud Winner of "Best Newbie Award" BFME2H, a long time ago
« Previous Page  1 2  Next Page »
You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Hop to:    

Age of Empires III Heaven | HeavenGames