You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

General Discussions
Moderated by Maffia, LordKivlov, JimXIX

Hop to:    
Welcome! You are not logged in. Please Login or Register.49 replies, Closed
Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » I want to correct you about Cavalry Archer
Bottom
Topic Subject:I want to correct you about Cavalry Archer
« Previous Page  1 2  Next Page »
PredatoR_TR
Skirmisher
posted 10-27-07 02:29 PM EDT (US)         


Hi friends. AOE3 has been released 2 years ago and i know it is a bit late but I just want to correct you about Cavalry Archers.

As you know, only The Ottomans and Russia have them. However Cavalry Archers of Russia is stronger than cavalry archers of The Ottomans. ( + 27 HP, +1 siege attack, +1 range attack) Cavalry Archers of The Ottomans named as Cavalry Archer and Russian ones named as Tartar Loyalist.

Firstly, where 'does the name of '' Tartar '' come from. It comes from Crimea. what is Tartar? actually they are TATAR, not Tartar. lots of name are wrong in AOE3 like Spahi (Orginally Sipahi),

Baratcu (orginally Barutcu or Barutçu), etc. TATARS are one of Turk race since the history of Turks knew. Firstly, they lived in Middle Asia, then immigrate to the west and land to Crimea. From Seljuks, Golden Horde to the Ottomans, Crimea belonged to the Turks. From 15. century until end of 19. century, Crimea belonged to the Ottomans. Tatars have been living in Crimea and they have been Muslim.

Soldier of Tatars were used by The Ottomans and they had been loyal to the Ottomans because same races never betray each other and also they are Muslim.

As all history lovers know, for Turks, horse have been holy animal and the best weapon that Turks have used is ARCHER. while riding a horse, even hitting a small bird is piece a cake for the Turk archers.

As i mentioned, even if the period of game and realism say us that TATARS are Turk and belong to The Ottomans, why have Tatar archers given to Russians, i really cant find a logic.
AuthorReplies:
Medio
Skirmisher
(id: Mediolanus)
posted 10-28-07 09:47 AM EDT (US)     26 / 49       
Soldier of Tatars were used by The Ottomans and they had been loyal to the Ottomans because same races never betray each other and also they are Muslim.
I really wouldn't make comments on concepts like "race" on these boards. Of course, there are numerous counterexamples to this, like German tribes fighting each other etc.
PredatoR_TR
Skirmisher
posted 10-28-07 09:56 AM EDT (US)     27 / 49       
when i said '' same race never betrays each other'' i meant that Turks and Tatars have been always loyal to each other against Russia. even now Tatars and Russian are like enemy because of historical events.
micky_tee
Skirmisher
(id: micky_t)
posted 10-28-07 10:35 AM EDT (US)     28 / 49       
Well, I don't know, I was offended.

He told me I was wrong about them.
but I just want to correct you about Cavalry Archers.
I'm actually doing you a favour imo, because no one actually really cares, and possibly you're just trying to be a smart alec. Who cares that they're called Tatars and not Tartars? Come on, it's a letter..
Soldier of Tatars were used by The Ottomans and they had been loyal to the Ottomans because same races never betray each other and also they are Muslim.
You don't believe that, do you?

armyballer - Another 3v3, this time my team is winning, (about an hour into it). One of the other team players admits defeat and resigns, then out of no where I get OOS message. I'm pissed, I again log onto agecommunity and see I have been given a LOSE. How did this happen?

AceOfKings - ender_ward hacked into your game and made it go OOS

Unban JamesLock
Sir Snoopy
Skirmisher
posted 10-28-07 10:51 AM EDT (US)     29 / 49       
and also they are Muslim.
PLEASE! Don't use the "religion" idea. Religion means nothing in terms of If someone's going to fight or not. Look at WW2
Germans: Christian
Brittan: Generally Christian

What about the American civil war?!
And the Revolutionary war?
All counter examples.
I'm actually doing you a favour imo, because no one actually really cares, and possibly you're just trying to be a smart alec. Who cares that they're called Tatars and not Tartars? Come on, it's a letter..
*cheers*

Retired GameReplays.org Senior Replay Reviewer
World Class Drum Corps International Mellophonist 2009
Proud Winner of "Best Newbie Award" BFME2H, a long time ago
John GrahamLeigh
Skirmisher
posted 10-28-07 02:51 PM EDT (US)     30 / 49       
This is clearly "discussing the game itself" and therefore valid for this forum. I'm not defending the OP's proposal, which is clearly wrong, or the aggressive way he worded it... but there's nothing wrong with raising the issue per se.

"Tatar" and "Tartar" are acceptable alternative spellings - though it does matter to some people because "Tartar" is derived from "Tartarus" and has the connotation of "the people from hell" - but you might at least spell "Britain" correctly.
George_uk
Skirmisher
posted 10-28-07 03:01 PM EDT (US)     31 / 49       
even you dont know that I am Turk, Russian or Tatar or from any other countries, so before judging, do think twice.
I never said you were Turkish. So before replying, do read twice.
Ottomans because same races never betray each other and also they are Muslim.
You are clearly suggesting that because they are muslim they would never betray each other even if you denied it in another post. How about the recent Shia vs Sunni attacks?

Previously known as MoNo Ager
PredatoR_TR
Skirmisher
posted 10-28-07 05:06 PM EDT (US)     32 / 49       
I never said you were Turkish. So before replying, do read twice.
by your saying style, it was so but anyhow, it is not important.
You are clearly suggesting that because they are muslim they would never betray each other even if you denied it in another post. How about the recent Shia vs Sunni attacks?
I explained if you read. Of course same races or nations that have same religion have fought each other in every century, even in 21.century, they are fighting.

My point: Russian had a policy named as PANSLAVISM. this policy refers the right of Slavic race. Russia made a fire on BALKANS then watched. all slavic race revolted against The Ottoman Empire and these slavic countries won their freedom. Crimea that is land of Tatars belonged to The Ottomans and this land has been a place for Muslims. for this reason, The Ottoman Empire had never wanted to lose this land. Even when The Ottomans lost this land, they had tried to take this land again and again because losing a land that Muslim people live hurt Sultans too much.
thats why, there was like alliance between Tatars and Turks (the Ottomans). Even when the Ottomans lost this land, Tatars had supported The Ottomans and Ottomans do same and they have fought against Russia.

During history of Turks, only Tatar Turkics have never betrayed to the other Turkic tribe. It is the fact.
schildpad
Skirmisher
posted 10-28-07 05:29 PM EDT (US)     33 / 49       
Tatars also live in russia, that is also a fact. So it is realistic and the spelling is correct.

"such a kind fellow!" ~ ķįŋğ_Ćħŗĩš_ĬĬ

Furby killer should be crowned leader of AOE forum ~ [SW_GD]Teutonic

Medio
Skirmisher
(id: Mediolanus)
posted 10-28-07 05:35 PM EDT (US)     34 / 49       
During history of Turks, only Tatar Turkics have never betrayed to the other Turkic tribe. It is the fact.
I'm quite interested in how you wish to prove this. Wikipedia says they were around in the 5th century AD. As they were a nomadic tribe, I doubt they have written records of all of their history.
Cancer of the Head
Skirmisher
(id: say1988)
posted 10-28-07 05:48 PM EDT (US)     35 / 49       
Crimea that is land of Tatars belonged to The Ottomans and this land has been a place for Muslims. for this reason, The Ottoman Empire had never wanted to lose this land. Even when The Ottomans lost this land, they had tried to take this land again and again because losing a land that Muslim people live hurt Sultans too much.
thats why, there was like alliance between Tatars and Turks (the Ottomans). Even when the Ottomans lost this land, Tatars had supported The Ottomans and Ottomans do same and they have fought against Russia.
What about the Tatars in modern Belrus, Ukraine and other lands that were under Russian control BEFORE the Crimea?
There is nothing I have seen that says the Tatars in game are specifically from the Crimea.

And though yes, some Tartars likely sided with the Turks against the Russians (perhaps even a majority), but I am willing to bet a significant number served the Russian rulers, the ones that were loyal to their Russian government, were the Tartar Loyalists.
PredatoR_TR
Skirmisher
posted 10-28-07 07:58 PM EDT (US)     36 / 49       
Tatars also live in russia, that is also a fact. So it is realistic and the spelling is correct.
If you look 21st century, you can see that they live in Russia. In the past, they lived in Russia but they didnt fight for them in general because Tatars were unwilling for it.
I'm quite interested in how you wish to prove this. Wikipedia says they were around in the 5th century AD. As they were a nomadic tribe, I doubt they have written records of all of their history.
I dont need to write here, you can find some english sources about Tatars.
What about the Tatars in modern Belrus, Ukraine and other lands that were under Russian control BEFORE the Crimea?
There is nothing I have seen that says the Tatars in game are specifically from the Crimea.
I have lived in Belarus 2 years and i know that Russia
has send Tatars into exile from homeland.
Cancer of the Head
Skirmisher
(id: say1988)
posted 10-28-07 11:16 PM EDT (US)     37 / 49       
I have lived in Belarus 2 years and i know that Russia
has send Tatars into exile from homeland.
And Germany slaughtered Jews by the millions, yet Jews have served in German militaries.
The English persecuted Catholics, yet Catholics have and do serve in the British military.
The Americans used blacks as slaves, yet they volutarily join the US military. Same goes for every Western country.
The Romans persecuted Christians, then adopted it as the state religion.
The Russians have at times had campaigns to assimilate (or eliminate) cossacks, yet the cossacks have a long and proud history of serving in Russian militaries.

Just because some tartars were deported at various times means nothing (unless all of them were deported, which is clearly false), since what happens one day (or year, decade, or even century) can be different from what occurs the next or oddcurred in the previous one.
General_II
Skirmisher
posted 10-29-07 00:47 AM EDT (US)     38 / 49       
So many generalizations, from a comment that really wasn't all that unrealistic. The Tartars did raid much of Eastern Europe and so it's surprising that they are featured as Russian mercenaries.

He's simply establishing a generic contrast between the two types and asking why they don't conform logically.

The link between these two types is that many nomads that were proficient with cavalry came from Asia Minor. It's not hard to imagine these, now different, groups may have been related by geography, ideology, or ancestry at one point in history.
LordKivlov
Royal Guard
posted 10-29-07 00:57 AM EDT (US)     39 / 49       
but they didnt fight for them in general
Quit poking holes in your own arguement.

Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan
PredatoR_TR
Skirmisher
posted 10-29-07 06:24 AM EDT (US)     40 / 49       
And Germany slaughtered Jews by the millions, yet Jews have served in German militaries.
The English persecuted Catholics, yet Catholics have and do serve in the British military.
The Americans used blacks as slaves, yet they volutarily join the US military. Same goes for every Western country.
The Romans persecuted Christians, then adopted it as the state religion.
The Russians have at times had campaigns to assimilate (or eliminate) cossacks, yet the cossacks have a long and proud history of serving in Russian militaries.

Just because some tartars were deported at various times means nothing (unless all of them were deported, which is clearly false), since what happens one day (or year, decade, or even century) can be different from what occurs the next or oddcurred in the previous one.
What is the relation between Tatars and them. Yes, they are true historical facts but no relation with Tatars and period of game.

Just i want to say that the Period that AOE3 passes, Tatars fought for The Ottomans, not for Russia. In this period The Ottomans fought with Russia 13 times. 13 big wars. And Tatars had always been The Ottoman side.
John GrahamLeigh
Skirmisher
posted 10-29-07 07:15 AM EDT (US)     41 / 49       
Did you not notice my earlier post? What you say is pretty much true of the Crimean Tatars, but certainly not of the Tatar peoples in the rest of the former Golden Horde Khanate which the Russians conquered during the 16th century. Tatar horse-archers served in Russian armies from the Battle of Kulikovo (1380) onwards, and were still doing so during the Napoleonic Wars. These men came from the former Khanates of Kazan, Sibir, Astrakhan etc.

Even the Crimea ceased to be a vassal of the Ottoman Empire in 1774 and was annexed by Russia in 1783, so the Ottomans lost access to Tatar troops well within the AoE3 period.

AoE3 has it right - both Ottomans and Russians can have cavalry archers but most of the Tatars fight for the Russians.
Medio
Skirmisher
(id: Mediolanus)
posted 10-29-07 11:46 AM EDT (US)     42 / 49       
I dont need to write here, you can find some english sources about Tatars.
About their entire martial history from the start of their existence?
KingsRansom
Skirmisher
posted 10-29-07 04:34 PM EDT (US)     43 / 49       
[joke][sarcasm] Always remember to believe 100% of everything you read in history books and ESPECIALLY the internet, becuase it is never biased or is ever wrong, because the authors were there and recorded everything perfectly. [/sarcasm][/joke]

"Obstacles do not exist to be surrendered to, but only to be broken." - Adolf Hitler

Proud citizen of Sovietcanuckistan.

~92% of teens have moved on to rap. If you are part of the 8% who still listen to real music, copy and paste this into your sig.~
Sir Snoopy
Skirmisher
posted 10-29-07 05:52 PM EDT (US)     44 / 49       
Awesome, Kings Ransom!
*sits and fumes*
I hate this thread

Retired GameReplays.org Senior Replay Reviewer
World Class Drum Corps International Mellophonist 2009
Proud Winner of "Best Newbie Award" BFME2H, a long time ago
PredatoR_TR
Skirmisher
posted 10-29-07 06:04 PM EDT (US)     45 / 49       
If you hate why you write? simple obsession?
Sir Snoopy
Skirmisher
posted 10-29-07 07:01 PM EDT (US)     46 / 49       
Gee, that's funny. I thought people weren't supposed to tell people what to think?

That's just what you did.
And no, I'm not obsessed, I just find it disgusting when people mud up these threads with poor grammar and words like:
I just want to correct you about Cavalry Archers
and
lots of name are wrong in AOE3 like Spahi (Originally Sipahi

What is this? Do you take some kind of sick pleasure in trying to make people feel dumb? Does it change the game that ES used an alternate spelling? Do you feel smarter for quoting wikipedia?! Come on! My 4 year old neighbor could have edited that! It's nothing against you personally - oh, wait. It is. Never mind. I think you say really pointless and dumb things in order to make yourself feel better about whatever it is you're down about.

Retired GameReplays.org Senior Replay Reviewer
World Class Drum Corps International Mellophonist 2009
Proud Winner of "Best Newbie Award" BFME2H, a long time ago
PredatoR_TR
Skirmisher
posted 10-29-07 07:09 PM EDT (US)     47 / 49       
you have slandered me, Sir snoopy.

I will complain you to the Admins.

name issue was an example if you don't understand.

And it's pity that you lie yourself and don't believe in history. I don't care what people write in wikipedia and have i ever used a source from there? NO. If i write something about history, it MEANS i have read about it, i have searched about it and i am sure about it.

I don't care ES will correct this mistake or not. Have i mentioned it? I just want YOU know what real is.

by your words, you make this tread disgusting.

I won't write here in this thread anymore. you can write and enjoy.
Sir Snoopy
Skirmisher
posted 10-29-07 07:11 PM EDT (US)     48 / 49       
Thank you.

Retired GameReplays.org Senior Replay Reviewer
World Class Drum Corps International Mellophonist 2009
Proud Winner of "Best Newbie Award" BFME2H, a long time ago
Angel Walker
Skirmisher
(id: Just a player)
posted 10-29-07 07:13 PM EDT (US)     49 / 49       
Sir Snoopy, cut that out. You're free to have your opinion, but avoid posting if all you are going to do is flaming. Take this as an unofficial warning.

Also, I suppose this thread has gone far enough. You guys have made your points already, but now it's time for it to be closed.

ESO - Walker

>> Napoleonic Era --> Visit their Homepage!
"Holy *****" > Thunder (Ensemble Studios)

Retired from AoE3. But I do play AoK HD in Steam now and then.
« Previous Page  1 2  Next Page »
You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Hop to:    

Age of Empires III Heaven | HeavenGames