You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

General Discussions
Moderated by Maffia, LordKivlov, JimXIX

Hop to:    
Welcome! You are not logged in. Please Login or Register.83 replies
Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » Age Of Empires 3: Future Patch Balance Notes
Bottom
Topic Subject:Age Of Empires 3: Future Patch Balance Notes
« Previous Page  1 2 3 4  Next Page »
Spartanius
Skirmisher
posted 11-17-07 05:55 PM EDT (US)         
Age Of Empires 3: Future Patch Balance Notes

Ok, I don't know if there is already a thread that covers this but I havn't found one so far so I thought I'd make this.
This thread is where forummers (who play age 3, preferebly on ESO) can come together and make suggestions about where the game needs to be balanced in any future patches. Cards that need to be nerfed, units that need boosting, whatever it is make your suggestion here and I'll look over it. If your opinion isn't insane and it makes sense than I'll add it onto the forum. Hopefully some of the ES staff will see this and take it into consideration. The Balance Notes will be seperated by civs and also a Misc. catagory...

(((IMPORTANT)))When referring to a card or common unit (musketeer) specify what civ they are from.(((IMPORTANT)))

So, suggest and opinionize away...(is that a word?)


BALANCE NOTES:

British
- Increase number of musketeers and longbowmen in age 2 unit shipments
- Give Brits a good fortress politican something like "the kings archer" 4 longbowman and veteran status given

Spanish


French


Dutch
- Decrease Bank HP


Portuguese
- Cassadors need a little boost of HP
- Lower cost of Bestiero church tech (example: 1000 wood) but also greatly nerf the amount of Xbows you get with it


Ottomans
- Cheaper Church techs
- Boost Janissary melee damage to cav

Russians
- sevastopol builds buildings 60% faster instead of 85%.
- increase russian musketeer attack (hand) against cav

Germany
- Increase either Uhlan HP or Uhlan speed


THE WAR CHIEFS~


Aztecs


Iroqious


Sioux
- Decrease the Sioux WarChief aura

THE ASIAN DYNASTIES~


Japanese
- increase army train time from Dojos


Chinese
- Desciple cost increased to 100 Food
- +1 attack and/or +1x multiplier vs cav for Chinese Pikes and/or Keshiks
- Slightly decrease Banner Army and Flying Crow train time from wonders (it is a little too slow)
- Lower "Mongolian Army" cost (least used banner army anyway)
- Grant new tech to chinese that allows them to gain XP (for XP games?)


Indians
- Start with extra wood crate and/or extra villiger
- Flail Elephants HP increased and also bonus vs HI instead of LI
- Make Elephants more cost and/or pop effective. Reduce pop cost or resource cost a bit
- Professional Handlers card decrease pop cost elephants by 2




MISCALLANEOUS~
- Doorbell/Door type sound for when friend loggs in?
- Allow more than just 2 teams (wishfull thinking i know, but i leave it on here anyway)


Just post a small sentance/paragraph on what should be changed and I'll add it on. If you can give me specifics and exacts of what you mean.

Have Fun! :P

You know you play AoE too much when....
"You rob a bank saying im in stealth mode, im in stealth mode"...
"You Buy a house in Britain for a free kid"...
"Whereever you see the letters "ATP" you think it means "Advanced Trading Post"...

~92% of teens have moved on to rap. If you are part of the 8% who still listen to real music, copy and paste this into your sig.~

[This message has been edited by Spartanius (edited 11-30-2007 @ 09:58 PM).]

AuthorReplies:
KenjiCXT
Skirmisher
posted 11-20-07 12:46 PM EDT (US)     26 / 83       
"- Lower cost of Bestiero church tech but receive fewer Bestieros (1000-1200 wood, upgrades xbow to Bestieros & receives 10 Bestieros)"
So you get...
1) Veteran Upgrade
2) Guard Upgrade
3) X amounts of units

...for 1k-1.5k wood? That seems far to stong to me. (even if you compare it The Russian Church card.) The thing that makes it way over average is that you can now have good GUARD units in fortress, and as far as I know they are very cost-efficient aswell. Combine that with a strong Fort-eco and you've got something very stong.

Edit: Forgot to add the [ quote ].

Q: How do I get veteran skirms as the dutch?
- you have to buy the upgrade in the the barracks lol it should be under the skimiser logo. -you have to be in age3 to get veteran and age 4 to get guard.
After realizing they get automatically upgraded:
- o right i play brits so i just guessed.....thats slighly embarrasing lol

"Ah, the wonderful smell of failure!" - George_III on a full-capslocked topic.

[This message has been edited by KenjiCXT (edited 11-20-2007 @ 12:47 PM).]

Lord_Richjp
Skirmisher
posted 11-20-07 12:53 PM EDT (US)     27 / 83       
Decrease default Banner Army train time
Wtf? China can already get out lots of units very quickly, if their anti-cav now works that needs to be weakened not boosted.

My grandmother slaps harder than the Agra Fort shoots. And she's dead. ~ Ender_Ward

By the same token, if I attempt to operate the mouse using nothing but my butt-cheeks, micro will also come down to "luck." ~ Beatnikjoe
LordKivlov
Royal Guard
posted 11-20-07 06:57 PM EDT (US)     28 / 83       
don't think you should be making a balance topic, if you didn't know this :P I just had to point this out, lol.
Personal bias should be left out of balance topics also, everyone wants what they lose to nerfed and what they use buffed.

Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan
Spartanius
Skirmisher
posted 11-21-07 08:37 PM EDT (US)     29 / 83       
"So you get...
1) Veteran Upgrade
2) Guard Upgrade
3) X amounts of units

...for 1k-1.5k wood? That seems far to stong to me. (even if you compare it The Russian Church card.) The thing that makes it way over average is that you can now have good GUARD units in fortress, and as far as I know they are very cost-efficient aswell. Combine that with a strong Fort-eco and you've got something very stong."
Yeah, I see your point. The cost of that tech really does need to be nerfed though because nobody ever uses it and for the people who do its very hard because you have to devote a lot of villies to wood. So i'll just change the wording for that.

Lord_RichJP
Ok dude, first of all there is no need to get mad. At least 2 people mentioned that and this is a forum for ALL gamers to state their opinions on what should be changed. Now if there a more people that agree with your view on the boost to the banner army train time than I will remove it. But other than that you should chill.
<quote>don't think you should be making a balance topic, if you didn't know this :P I just had to point this out, lol.<quote>
Personal bias should be left out of balance topics also, everyone wants what they lose to nerfed and what they use buffed.
Thanks LordKivlov

You know you play AoE too much when....
"You rob a bank saying im in stealth mode, im in stealth mode"...
"You Buy a house in Britain for a free kid"...
"Whereever you see the letters "ATP" you think it means "Advanced Trading Post"...

~92% of teens have moved on to rap. If you are part of the 8% who still listen to real music, copy and paste this into your sig.~

[This message has been edited by Spartanius (edited 11-21-2007 @ 08:39 PM).]

Lord Berminator
Skirmisher
posted 11-21-07 09:01 PM EDT (US)     30 / 83       
Nice ideas for Indians, however if elephants have -1 pop, and the pro handlers card decreases 2 pop, then that would make some ellies 3 pop, and others 4. That's a little too good. Just make ellies cost one less pop and leave Pro Hands where it is.

But yeah, Flails own buidlings, but they die like Maces to Imperial Lancers, or whatever their wacko-hard-to-remember-name is. And the card that changes vil wood cost to food should be sent in first age. And India's navy is also terrible, needs some more unique ships, even though they were influenced a lot by the Europeans.

Now if there was a card that allowed Arsonists to be created at Barracks/Agra.....THAT would be interesting!

Scenarios: Worldmap Series I: North America, Worldmap Series II: Caribbean, The Wasteland

Editor of: Orissa, Kill the Sun, Bathe in Hate

Current Projects: Fog of War, Island Hopping

[This message has been edited by Lord Berminator (edited 11-22-2007 @ 09:04 AM).]

Shadow Shade
Skirmisher
posted 11-21-07 10:42 PM EDT (US)     31 / 83       
Make Grens ranged infantry and increase line of sight so that they can actually throw their grenades and do better at hit and run. This is a boost for Brits really but it'd also make Grens somewhat more viable for the other civs that have them.

[This message has been edited by Shadow Shade (edited 11-22-2007 @ 10:57 AM).]

Lord Berminator
Skirmisher
posted 11-22-07 11:14 AM EDT (US)     32 / 83       
I say that for once Ensemble brings back the ability to have more than two teams.

And we're still waiting for Incans and Koreans! Mabye even US and Swiss.

Scenarios: Worldmap Series I: North America, Worldmap Series II: Caribbean, The Wasteland

Editor of: Orissa, Kill the Sun, Bathe in Hate

Current Projects: Fog of War, Island Hopping

[This message has been edited by Lord Berminator (edited 11-22-2007 @ 11:15 AM).]

LordKivlov
Royal Guard
posted 11-23-07 01:42 AM EDT (US)     33 / 83       
add a type of "Fencing School" card/tech
not needed, they have the tech already at the Dutch Church.

I'd like to see something done about Ashigaru. If I can give them Imperial musketeer stats in Colonial, something's gone horribly wrong. Their Close Combat card in fortress should only affect Melee and not All Actions Damage.
- Allow more than just 2 teams
Won't ever be implemented. Sorry just not going to happen, search the forums why.
Mabye even US and Swiss.
US and Swiss are already in the game. Revolt or get some pikes.

Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan

[This message has been edited by LordKivlov (edited 11-23-2007 @ 01:44 AM).]

the_emperor222
Skirmisher
posted 11-23-07 02:39 PM EDT (US)     34 / 83       
chinese:
-ok, i think the chinese are good enough so dont decraese the training time of banner armies. ( btw they have already 2 cards for that and we dont want instant banner armies)
- decrease the range of hand mortars by 2 and incraese their cost to 50f 95 w
+1 atck and +1X multipelier agianst cav for pike and keshik isnt a good idea either, make it +1X multipelier for chandrao
-flametrowers range has to incraese to 12
- porcelain tower tower gather rate decraesed to 2 f/s, 1.5 wood/s and 1.75 gold/s
dutch:

decraese the build xp for a bank to 110 xp

british:

-give them a good fortress politican something like "the kings archer" 4 lbowman and veteran status given

Aztec
- give coyote runners the same system as tad cav.
+1.5 multipelier against all infantry and 0.7 against HI
-give mace +1 atck.

Indian
-incraese mahout lancer basic damage to 38
-give them a CIR like tech what works for siege ellies to

this is defenately not everything, but it is something

oh and yeah, US and Swiss or more then 2 teams would never, never, ever be included in a patch or expansion
Eicho
Skirmisher
posted 11-23-07 03:58 PM EDT (US)     35 / 83       
Most of the things here are just stupid.

You say you give +1 attack and +1 multiplier for all Colonial Chinese Anti Cav, then you say Keshik attack from 8 to 10.. So Keshik will end with 11 Colonial attack and a lot more attack to cav (specially after the card that grants them +1 multiplier), thats just silly.

Just give Quiang pikes +1 vs Cav, thats all.
Disciple 100 food? for a unit wich limit is 7? no.
(i know you can get more via Wonder or conversion)
You just lower the number of Disciples Fortress age Pagoda gives, lower it from 12 to 10-8.

Increase army train tiem for Dojos? lol, Dojos are fine, they dont need any change.

If India gets +1 villager and +1 wood crate, that would be OP. I never played India, but it's kinda obius.


There are a lot other things that doesnt make sense,i wotn list all.
LordKivlov
Royal Guard
posted 11-23-07 04:30 PM EDT (US)     36 / 83       
Going to have to agree with Eicho about China except about the Disciples. They're way too strong for how cheap they are.
- Decrease default Banner Army train time
No, China is strong enough as is and as Eicho stated, they have train cards.
- Disciple cost increased to 100 Food
Agreed
- +1 attack and +1x multiplier vs cav for all chinese colonial anti-cav
Possibly, but civs with cheap units are supposed to suck against strong cav civs (Russia has no answer to Cuirs or Axe Riders)
- Decrease Banner Army and Flying Crow train time from wonders
Flying Crow trains slow for a reason... It's free, it's available in Colonial, same with the Banner army's.
- Grant new tech to chinese that allows them to gain XP
Why? So they can be even stronger than they already are? :\

Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan

[This message has been edited by LordKivlov (edited 11-24-2007 @ 05:45 AM).]

Lord_Richjp
Skirmisher
posted 11-24-07 07:23 AM EDT (US)     37 / 83       
About the flying crow and Banner army train times; IMO they should add techs in 3+4 (maybe in 2, but expensive so you can't use them in the initial rush) to increase the train speed, so in a rush you can't annihalate everything at 7:00 with one of these, but you can make reasonable use of them later on.

My grandmother slaps harder than the Agra Fort shoots. And she's dead. ~ Ender_Ward

By the same token, if I attempt to operate the mouse using nothing but my butt-cheeks, micro will also come down to "luck." ~ Beatnikjoe
Tungsten_Knight
Skirmisher
posted 11-24-07 11:27 AM EDT (US)     38 / 83       
I thought shipments made it so Flying Crows are made faster? I think it's the Acupuncture and the Engineering School that make them train faster.
Spartanius
Skirmisher
posted 11-25-07 00:22 AM EDT (US)     39 / 83       
well I removed some of the stuff and changed the wording on others. if there is anything else just say so.

how do i get a message about this thread posted at the main page so that more peeps will come?

You know you play AoE too much when....
"You rob a bank saying im in stealth mode, im in stealth mode"...
"You Buy a house in Britain for a free kid"...
"Whereever you see the letters "ATP" you think it means "Advanced Trading Post"...

~92% of teens have moved on to rap. If you are part of the 8% who still listen to real music, copy and paste this into your sig.~
TheBengals3
Skirmisher
posted 11-25-07 00:48 AM EDT (US)     40 / 83       
95% of this stuff is aboslutely stupid. Heres how I would balance the 3 asian civs.

India- Give them 1 vill and remove 8% xp penalty
China- Nerf Desciples and take away the desciples convert thing
Japan- Small nerf to ashigs attack and boost shrine gather rate

oh yeah and for Dutch nerf the build Xp for banks so they can't send 84298 shipments by building a couple banks.

[This message has been edited by TheBengals3 (edited 11-25-2007 @ 00:50 AM).]

Foy Lyndstrom
Skirmisher
posted 11-25-07 04:10 PM EDT (US)     41 / 83       
I have heard in other threads that many people believe that the Dutch needs a bank nerf of some kind. I personally like them the way they are, but in order to make things balanced, I see why something might be needed.

Instead of changing the cost of banks or the amount of coin produced, maybe the hitpoints of banks should be altered. Making them very vulnerable to a raid might persuade players to not make as many of them, as it would be a great loss of resources. For instance, would you make a bank if it could be destroyed as fast as a house?

Ok, so maybe that's a quite extreme example, but is the idea feasible?
LordKivlov
Royal Guard
posted 11-25-07 05:27 PM EDT (US)     42 / 83       
oh yeah and for Dutch nerf the build Xp for banks so they can't send 84298 shipments by building a couple banks.
Do you even understand WHY the banks give so much experience for being built? It's not because ES wanted to give dutch a bonus to the banks, it's because they cost 700 friggen resources.

Each resource of a building is worth .2 experience. A house costs 100w and is 20xp, a bank 700 resources and 140xp, and a plantation 800 resources 160xp. If you want, invest the same amount of resources in 7 houses to get the same xp he gets for his bank, or another combination of buildings, it may be slightly more VS cause of the food component of the banks but there's absolutely nothing wrong with the xp from the banks.
Ok, so maybe that's a quite extreme example, but is the idea feasible?
No not really, because I can't build as big of an army as you at the same time I'm putting banks up, so take advantage of that and kill my rax, sucker me into using CM and then run away, come back and kill the banks since I have nothing left to defend them.

Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan

[This message has been edited by LordKivlov (edited 11-25-2007 @ 05:29 PM).]

KSimms
Skirmisher
posted 11-26-07 01:08 AM EDT (US)     43 / 83       
Hey how about the Agra Fort actually be worth building, maybe then the idea for India to turtle or boom would actually work
Red xerxes
Skirmisher
posted 11-27-07 04:02 AM EDT (US)     44 / 83       
british-10HP boost for longbowmen

spanish-balanced
french-hp or attack nerf for CDB.

Dutch-30%hp nerf for bank.auto veteran skirms in colonial removed[as suggested earlier]

portugese- increased rof for cassadore.[as suggested]
leseer no. of besterios.[as suggested]
boost fOR organ guns.

ottomans-33% less res for church techs.
25 ranged attack for jannissary and 16 hand attack.

russians-sevastopol builds buildings 60% faster instead of 85%.
better hand attack for musketeer vs cav in colonial.

german-uhlan speed increase.
nerf palatine settlements to 20 pop per house.
provide more useful mercenaries in coloial than landschnedt.

sioux-remove the food crate or 1 starting vill.
for natives remove the 3 TP travois card.[unused, but a card with great abuse potential IMO]

[This message has been edited by RED XERXES (edited 11-27-2007 @ 04:05 AM).]

Lord_Richjp
Skirmisher
posted 11-27-07 12:11 PM EDT (US)     45 / 83       
spanish-balanced
=/ No, they're OP.
25 ranged attack for jannissary and 16 hand attack.
LOL! Jannisaries are balanced well now if you boost them by that much you have an extremely OP rush.
nerf palatine settlements to 20 pop per house.
Why? Make it the most useless card ever? China get that card for TEAM in age 1.
for natives remove the 3 TP travois card.[unused, but a card with great abuse potential IMO]
Nothing OP about that card, you could send 700 wood and build those TPs with it.

My grandmother slaps harder than the Agra Fort shoots. And she's dead. ~ Ender_Ward

By the same token, if I attempt to operate the mouse using nothing but my butt-cheeks, micro will also come down to "luck." ~ Beatnikjoe

[This message has been edited by Lord_RichJP (edited 11-27-2007 @ 12:13 PM).]

Red xerxes
Skirmisher
posted 11-28-07 06:12 AM EDT (US)     46 / 83       
spanish are NOT op.

they fare poorly vs good rushers but do well vs boomers and turtlers. that is kind of balanced.

sorry make that jannissary-23 ranged attack and 16 hand damage. after the advent of the sepoy the jannies have been made to look like jokes.they cost 100f and 25 coin. muskets cost 75 f and 25 c.for their part jana have extra 85 hp,now this is justified by the xtra food cost.butjanz have lesser ranged attack 20 compared to 23.so i don't see how a boost for jannies would make them op.remember unlike muska jannissaries are the only unit a ottoman has from the barracks.so of course he would want a unit thats worth its price.
now compare this to the sepoy.100f,20g.lesser thsn jannisary. 170 hp and 21 siege..but 26RANGED attack,and 4.5 speed .they can actually avoid being hit and run.

now the jannissary is the only cavalry defense unit that ottos have.lategame they are too late because of their low hand damage to kill cav before they kill ur abusguns and artillery.they win but too late.that's why they need a good hand attack upgrade.


why not nerf palatine settlements?30 pop means 7 houses to house his entire pop.that is disgusting.

3 tps very early into colonial can be deadly on certain maps.the doesn't have to move around the map making tps.u don't need to collect crates and then build or collect large amount of wood during transition.u can age with wood politician .make barracks and houses. and with 3 tps up research stagecoach.u will have a great tp res supply.army base.pop space,const vill production and res crates and military shipments still unused. that i think kinda says it.
Tungsten_Knight
Skirmisher
posted 11-28-07 10:53 AM EDT (US)     47 / 83       
Just so you know, in a few tests I've done, Janissaries always come out on top. The fact that they've got so much HP makes them able to outlast most units, even if it is just by a little. Sepoys may have 25 attack, but they only have 190 HP...which interestingly is equal to the Janissaries 235 HP and 20 attack (to be more precise, if they fight each other 1v1 with no micro, then they both die at exactly the same time). Ashigaru may be fast and have a high ranged attack, but they still have the same range, and they don't have as much HP...

Of course, that's looking at it without any card upgrades.
Lord_Richjp
Skirmisher
posted 11-28-07 11:37 AM EDT (US)     48 / 83       
spanish are NOT op.

they fare poorly vs good rushers but do well vs boomers and turtlers. that is kind of balanced.
You must be facing noob spain players, a fast FF with MM, dogs, 7 rods and age up troops owns any rush, then 2 falcs with the rest of the shipment army finishes you off.

And Janisaries... Janisary rush is the easiest strat you can do, and it can cause problems for even pretty good players. Now if you made it so Janisaries beat most units in the game, while outnumbering the enemy units, you get one OP rush.
why not nerf palatine settlements?30 pop means 7 houses to house his entire pop.that is disgusting.
Why is it disgusting? China need only 6 houses for 220 pop!!! Sending that card means the player is very vulnerable as he has not shipped a military or resource card, it doesn't boost his lategame, the only advantage it gives him is the ability to build units without worrying about pop. And sioux get that for free.
3 tps very early into colonial can be deadly on certain maps.the doesn't have to move around the map making tps.u don't need to collect crates and then build or collect large amount of wood during transition.u can age with wood politician .make barracks and houses. and with 3 tps up research stagecoach.u will have a great tp res supply.army base.pop space,const vill production and res crates and military shipments still unused. that i think kinda says it.
Or I can rush you before those TPs go up using my shipment for a more immediate bonus while you have little army and I take your TPs down before they are built; remember you need map control for TPs. Seriously if this card was OP you would see decent players making an OP strat with it. If Palatine settlements was OP you would see experts complaining about it.

My grandmother slaps harder than the Agra Fort shoots. And she's dead. ~ Ender_Ward

By the same token, if I attempt to operate the mouse using nothing but my butt-cheeks, micro will also come down to "luck." ~ Beatnikjoe
CunniJA
Skirmisher
posted 11-28-07 12:19 PM EDT (US)     49 / 83       
Anyone get the impression that XERXES plays Otto much?

Spain is not balanced. If you can't own most rushes with Spain, you're doing something wrong.

Anyway, India needs a boost for sure. China just needs some nerfs to Disciples. I agree that Japanese need a nerf to Ashigaru, but also Yumi as well I would say. 31 Attack at Disciplined level with only sending one boost card is massive. Better than Imperial Skirm attack in Fortress is just evil.

A_S: "Cunni's pic wins thread otherwise failing due to being 5-7 years behind the times."
"Brilliant cunni simply brilliant"
C_MAG: "CunniJA's post is epic win."
LordKivlov
Royal Guard
posted 11-28-07 02:06 PM EDT (US)     50 / 83       
why not nerf palatine settlements?30 pop means 7 houses to house his entire pop.that is disgusting.
So is 3 TC's providing enough pop to cover the 200 and then some for Spain but I don't see anyone else crying nerf. And reducing it to add only 10 pop makes it worse than a TEAM, yes a TEAM card from China.

If the 3 TP card was as overpowered as you claim, you'd think it would be used more wouldn't you?

Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan

[This message has been edited by LordKivlov (edited 11-28-2007 @ 02:08 PM).]

« Previous Page  1 2 3 4  Next Page »
You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Hop to:    

Age of Empires III Heaven | HeavenGames