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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » And the best card in the entire game is...
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Topic Subject:And the best card in the entire game is...
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Giskard
Skirmisher
posted 04-29-08 05:36 PM EDT (US)         
I wasn't going to even try analysing this one, as it is incredibly subjective and depends greatly on playing style. However, it seems that people want to discuss it so I though I might as well post this one to supplement my original "worst card" thread.

To make things a little easier, I have divided the "best card" sticker into six categories: best team card, best Treaty card, best aggressive card, best defensive card, best water card and best versatile card. These are the specifications for each category:

Best Team Card

- Refers to 2v2, 3v3 and 4v4 not FFA
- Does not necessarily have to be a TEAM card
- Must work for RANDOM teams

Best Treaty Card

- Refers to all forms of Treaty as well as unofficial "no- rush" games
- If forumers feel uncomfortable discussing Treaty games, this card can also be described as "long-term economic"

Best Aggressive Card

- Refers to any game in which an early offensive (i.e. rush) is preferable
- Can be any shipment (military-based or not) but must be one you would not use in a Treaty game

Best Defensive Card

- Refers to any game in which a defensive strategy (i.e. turtling) is preferable
- Can be any shipment (military-based or not) but must be one you would not use in a Treaty game

Best Water Card

- Refers to any game on a water-dominated map (e.g. Amazonia, Caribbean)
- Does not necessarily have to be a ship shipment () but must not be a card you would send on an all-land map

Best Versatile Card

- Refers to absolutely ANY game
- The card that would be chosen in completely unknown circumstances (except for the card's civilisation)
- Must work fairly well for team, Treaty, aggressive or defensive play
- Does not have to be the best under any of the above circumstances

Rules for all cards

- Can be a card from any civilisation, which one is relevant only insofar as how useful the card is to that civilisation
- Must work for RANDOM maps (exception: water card), with opponent(s) of any civilisation

Please remember to back up any claims with good reasons. I will keep this post updated with the opinions of whomever I judge to have argued their case best so far. May the best cards win!

Best Team Card - TEAM Chonindo
Best Treaty Card - Factory
Best Aggressive Card - 9 Crossbowmen + 2 Uhlans
Best Defensive Card - Improved Buildings
Best Water Card - Recruit Buccaneers
Best Versatile Card - 3 Coureurs

Giskard: BrianManahan = Tsar_Ivan_VII? Discuss.
Giskard: BrianManahan = Tsar_Ivan_VII. It's no longer a question.
Giskard: Isn't BrianManahan liable to be banned anyway for being the smurf of a banned forumer (Tsar_Ivan_VII)?
BrianManahan: I'm not sure who that is, Giskard, but I see what you is trying to do. I don't smurf >:O

(One day later) Moderator Announcements: Tsar_Ivan_VII / BrianManahan Banned Permanently - IP Match

[This message has been edited by Giskard (edited 06-12-2008 @ 12:12 PM).]

AuthorReplies:
SilentScreams
Skirmisher
posted 04-29-08 06:24 PM EDT (US)     1 / 37       
Best overall, which is awesome in pretty much every situation, would have to be the Discovery 3 Settler card. Actually the German 2 Settler Wagon if you want to get picky, but its the same idea.

All Hail Giant Squid World Domination
Catabre
BFME2H Replay Reviewer - Library Guildsman
posted 04-29-08 06:44 PM EDT (US)     2 / 37       
Best Team Card

- Refers to 2v2, 3v3 and 4v4 not FFA
- Does not necessarily have to be a TEAM card
- Must work for RANDOM teams
Russian Team Dueling school.
Best Treaty Card

- Refers to all forms of Treaty as well as unofficial "no- rush" games
- If forumers feel uncomfortable discussing Treaty games, this card can also be described as "long-term economic"
Germantown Farmers
Best Agressive Card

- Refers to any game in which an early offensive (i.e. rush) is preferable
- Can be any shipment (military-based or not) but must be one you would not use in a Treaty game
9 Crossbows + 2 Uhlans. (Best Age 2 military shipment)
Best Defensive Card

- Refers to any game in which a defensive strategy (i.e. turtling) is preferable
- Can be any shipment (military-based or not) but must be one you would not use in a Treaty game
Team Teutonic Town Center.

"Apparently, arguing for the right to do something no-one wants to do is the lifeblood of HG." - TaylorFlame

"Whatever happened, BFME2H did it better. No Exceptions." - EnemyofJupitor

[This message has been edited by Catabre (edited 04-29-2008 @ 06:45 PM).]

StevoPhilo
Skirmisher
posted 04-29-08 06:51 PM EDT (US)     3 / 37       
Agree with Catabre on all except 2.

Best team would probably be Team Early Skirms.

Best Defensive would probably be the Ports stronger walls card.
ultimitsu
Skirmisher
posted 04-29-08 07:31 PM EDT (US)     4 / 37       
there are a number of very strong team cards, hard to say which is the best, because it all depends on the partners and chosen strategy.

aztec 3 vils
sioux 2 dog soilder in age3
indian 5 urumi
indian 2 rhino
japan +8% all eco
german tuetonic TC (only when teamed with port)
aztec 2 warrior priest (only when teamed with native)
japan 1 castle (only when teamed with asian civ)
china 5 hand mortar
spanish inquisition

btw french early skirm is a useless card, almost as bad as early dragoon.

there is no such thing as best treaty card, if a card is not worth having in normal game but you do include it in treaty games, it is still secondary choice to cards like eco theory.

cards that grants large number of units like german 9 xbows can be used for both defensive and offensive. while it is truth some cards cant be used offensively, such as IB.

best militery upgrade card is chinese +8% to all units, and french thoroughbred.

best economy upgrade card is eco theory, royal mint and refrigration come close but they use age3 slots.

overall best card is possibly eco theory, everyone that has this card will always include it in any deck.
The Jackal
Skirmisher
posted 04-29-08 07:34 PM EDT (US)     5 / 37       
Best Team Card -
Team Chonindo, no contest. 8% more of all resources for your entire team, for an age 1 card? Fuggetaboutit.
Best Treaty Card -
Factories. Inexaustible, easily defensible wood source? I'll take it.
Best Agressive Card -
Distributivism. 2.5 wood choppers for zero pop hit is the king of rush cards.
Best Defensive Card -
This is a trick question, since the best defense is a good offense.
Camp
Skirmisher
posted 04-29-08 10:44 PM EDT (US)     6 / 37       
Best Team Card:

Gonna have to go with Team Teutonic Town Center, you friggin cant get the dam things down, great for booming hard in a 2v2 or god help them if its 3v3.

Best Treaty Card:
Eh... lets go with Advanced Arsenal, depending on the civ some of those upgrades really can turn the tide of a game, close second is royal mint/factories

Best Agressive Card:
I'm gonna go into the third age and pick 2 Falcs. Especially in the state of the game now where everyone is very fortress happy, those 2 falcs really do change the game.

Best Defensive Card:
Colonial Militia, for playing defense this card does it all, increased attack and defense plus second militia men.... if your ports with german ally sending ttc, and you put your 2 tcs within range of eachother, you will destroy absolutely any colonial army your opponent can fathom mustering..


Best Overall Card:
700 Gold- Rush, Boom, Turtle, it doesn't matter, rarely will you find a single deck with any civ that doesn't have this versetile card.

[This message has been edited by Camp (edited 05-01-2008 @ 02:23 PM).]

schildpad
Skirmisher
posted 04-30-08 02:08 AM EDT (US)     7 / 37       
Team:
Before 1.01 it would have been one of the zoo cards. It really depends on the situation. Team duelling school is good, but i think i go for team 3 settler.

Treaty:
Dutch unique church, 2 extra banks is huge difference for their eco.
In general factories. And that isnt just for treaty.

Agressive:
2 cannons are good, but imo 9 xbow + 2 uhlan is far above that. FFS, other civs have to wait till industrial before they can send 13 unit shipments. And i would have no problems with shipment penalty when my dutch then get a 13 skirm shipment in colonial.

Defensive:
Fort or building HP, both underestimated imo.

Overall:
2 settler wagon / 3 CdB.
Factories.

"such a kind fellow!" ~ ķįŋğ_Ćħŗĩ_ĬĬ

Furby killer should be crowned leader of AOE forum ~ [SW_GD]Teutonic

The Jackal
Skirmisher
posted 04-30-08 02:44 AM EDT (US)     8 / 37       
I came very close to picking improved buildings as the best defensive card. I'm not a great fan of forts for their own sake, unless you're Russian.
Colonel_UGMO
Veteran Musketeer (Content Contributor)
posted 04-30-08 06:46 AM EDT (US)     9 / 37       
Here is a thread like this I started before 1.01

click

I would say the infinite native allies cards a pretty good. I also like 5 grenadiers and 2 falcs in fortress

ESO NAME: UGMO
RANK: 1st Lieutenant
I AM USING: TAD
I AM PLAYING: The Aztecs, British and Russians
.oO James246: Well, you wouldn't be able to sigg any dumb things I say, because I don't say them. :P Oo.
Pandar
Skirmisher
posted 04-30-08 07:50 AM EDT (US)     10 / 37       
- If forumers feel uncomfortable discussing Treaty games, this card can also be described as "long-term economic"
------

That made me lol.

I'd have to say the best overall card is the 3 settlers\2 wagons card though. That can fit into almost any strategy ..
As_Saffah
Scenario Reviewer
posted 04-30-08 11:31 AM EDT (US)     11 / 37       
Team - Team Chonindo, agree this is very awesome.
Treaty - factory (duh). Other than that, National Redoubt. Sorry, but like others said, the best defense is a good offense, and sticking a fort up someone's arse is an excellent offense. This is the card that makes it possible (other cards just let you do it quicker, and more frequently.) It makes map control a snap, and lets you chop as much wood in the middle of the map as you like.
Offensive - ATM probably still the German 9+2. Advanced Arsenal comes a close second.
Defensive - Uhh, CM of course.

Overall: Advanced Arsenal. It is an automatic include in nearly EVERY deck I make for civs that get to have this card. Not even Fort or Factories get that distinction. Same with the native equivalent New Ways.

Crunkatog on ESO
Bart331 balance suggestion: aztec: remove civ
Voltiguer: Ender, Sioux in 1.04 will be a top civ, no matter how many layers of Sioux goggles you put on
schildpad on Elephants: ...their mansabdar unit sucks so hard it looks like a black hole
Crunkatog on Steam.
Giskard
Skirmisher
posted 04-30-08 11:58 AM EDT (US)     12 / 37       
Thanks a lot for all the contributions everyone. I have now entered the current "best cards" and have a new "versatile card" option for those who post in favour of best overall cards. If you disagree with my current selections, post with good arguments explaining why you want your card in there and I'll consider changing them.

EDIT: I have just noticed that the first four cards I selected are exactly the ones As_Saffah advocated. This is a complete coincidence (unless As_Saffah saw which way the wind was blowing) and I will not simply edit my selections on account of the most recent post. You'll have to do more than that...

Giskard: BrianManahan = Tsar_Ivan_VII? Discuss.
Giskard: BrianManahan = Tsar_Ivan_VII. It's no longer a question.
Giskard: Isn't BrianManahan liable to be banned anyway for being the smurf of a banned forumer (Tsar_Ivan_VII)?
BrianManahan: I'm not sure who that is, Giskard, but I see what you is trying to do. I don't smurf >:O

(One day later) Moderator Announcements: Tsar_Ivan_VII / BrianManahan Banned Permanently - IP Match

[This message has been edited by Giskard (edited 05-01-2008 @ 06:13 PM).]

Lord_Richjp
Skirmisher
posted 04-30-08 12:34 PM EDT (US)     13 / 37       
Best for everything = 3 vills or the civ's equivalent card.

My grandmother slaps harder than the Agra Fort shoots. And she's dead. ~ Ender_Ward

By the same token, if I attempt to operate the mouse using nothing but my butt-cheeks, micro will also come down to "luck." ~ Beatnikjoe
Giskard
Skirmisher
posted 05-01-08 11:59 AM EDT (US)     14 / 37       
Don't forget to back up your claims with good arguments. If you're wondering what qualifies as a good argument take a look at my "worst card in the entire game" thread and some of the opinions expressed there.

Giskard: BrianManahan = Tsar_Ivan_VII? Discuss.
Giskard: BrianManahan = Tsar_Ivan_VII. It's no longer a question.
Giskard: Isn't BrianManahan liable to be banned anyway for being the smurf of a banned forumer (Tsar_Ivan_VII)?
BrianManahan: I'm not sure who that is, Giskard, but I see what you is trying to do. I don't smurf >:O

(One day later) Moderator Announcements: Tsar_Ivan_VII / BrianManahan Banned Permanently - IP Match

[This message has been edited by Giskard (edited 05-01-2008 @ 06:14 PM).]

Lord_Richjp
Skirmisher
posted 05-01-08 12:53 PM EDT (US)     15 / 37       
Best team card isn't that, it's probably one of the Aztec's ones.

9 xbows/ 2 Uhlans is both agressive and defensive, and 2 SWs is better than 3 Coureurs

My grandmother slaps harder than the Agra Fort shoots. And she's dead. ~ Ender_Ward

By the same token, if I attempt to operate the mouse using nothing but my butt-cheeks, micro will also come down to "luck." ~ Beatnikjoe
Catabre
BFME2H Replay Reviewer - Library Guildsman
posted 05-01-08 01:12 PM EDT (US)     16 / 37       
spanish inquisition
Never seen it used effectvely.

"Apparently, arguing for the right to do something no-one wants to do is the lifeblood of HG." - TaylorFlame

"Whatever happened, BFME2H did it better. No Exceptions." - EnemyofJupitor
schildpad
Skirmisher
posted 05-01-08 02:14 PM EDT (US)     17 / 37       
imo team 3 settler is better card.

And i do sometimes use colonial militia, but the card is imo worse than improved buildings. Assuming you really play turtle style and also use walls + outposts (roflmao at walling vs stupid indian rushers who are too stupid to adapt and can only do their standard rush they copied from agesanc).

And can we have a special award for schooners?

"such a kind fellow!" ~ ķįŋğ_Ćħŗĩ_ĬĬ

Furby killer should be crowned leader of AOE forum ~ [SW_GD]Teutonic

Giskard
Skirmisher
posted 05-01-08 04:10 PM EDT (US)     18 / 37       
@ Lord_RichJP:

In my opinion 3 coureurs is better because:

- They cost 3 pop, not 4 pop
- They can be dispersed over more resources
- They have higher ranged resistance, attack and speed
- Settler wagons have only 60 more (combined) hp and a couple of slightly better multipliers
- The difference is only 0.25 of a villager, which I think is exceeded by the advantages above

Is there anything I haven't thought of that would make 2 SW better?

@ schildpad:

Admittedly TEAM 3 Villagers is a very good card (potentially worth 12 villagers in Age 2). For short team games it would certainly be better, but once teammates have 38 or more villagers, TEAM Chonindo comes out on top, particularly as it has no population cost. Then again, there are other advantages to villagers... I'm undecided on this one, as it cannot be ignored that TEAM Chonindo is a very powerful economic boost. If someone else takes up your case, or if you explain exactly what the advantages of villagers are and how many of your team games end before teammates have 38 villagers/settlers, I'll change it...

Good point on the Improved Buildings though. Changing now.
And can we have a special award for schooners?
Unforunately, no. I'm not going to start "And one of schildpad's favorite cards is..."

Giskard: BrianManahan = Tsar_Ivan_VII? Discuss.
Giskard: BrianManahan = Tsar_Ivan_VII. It's no longer a question.
Giskard: Isn't BrianManahan liable to be banned anyway for being the smurf of a banned forumer (Tsar_Ivan_VII)?
BrianManahan: I'm not sure who that is, Giskard, but I see what you is trying to do. I don't smurf >:O

(One day later) Moderator Announcements: Tsar_Ivan_VII / BrianManahan Banned Permanently - IP Match

[This message has been edited by Giskard (edited 05-01-2008 @ 04:16 PM).]

Lord_Richjp
Skirmisher
posted 05-01-08 05:44 PM EDT (US)     19 / 37       
Schooners is the best card for water maps. You could add that. Also, 2 SWs don't count towards the vill limit so you can go 99 + 5 SW (inc. start SW) But not above 80 coreurs

My grandmother slaps harder than the Agra Fort shoots. And she's dead. ~ Ender_Ward

By the same token, if I attempt to operate the mouse using nothing but my butt-cheeks, micro will also come down to "luck." ~ Beatnikjoe
The Jackal
Skirmisher
posted 05-01-08 05:46 PM EDT (US)     20 / 37       
In my opinion 3 coureurs is better because:

- They cost 3 pop, not 4 pop
- They can be dispersed over more resources
- They have higher ranged resistance, attack and speed
- Settler wagons have only 60 more (combined) hp and a couple of slightly better multipliers
- The difference is only 0.25 of a villager, which I think is exceeded by the advantages above

Is there anything I haven't thought of that would make 2 SW better?
Just this: France has no shipment penalty, so you'll see 3 CDBs before you get 2 SWs.
Giskard
Skirmisher
posted 05-01-08 06:01 PM EDT (US)     21 / 37       
@ Lord_RichJP:

Excellent idea for the water card, adding now. As regards your other point, when playing as Germans do you really want to exceed 99 population worth of villagers and settler wagons? I know economy > all, but I believe there is a critical mass at which savings made by having stronger armies to protect economies and destroy opponents' armies outweigh those of high villager population. With Germany's particularly high-pop army, I doubt this mass will be higher than 99.

@ The Jackal:

Although I currently agree with your orientation, I did say that cards should be judged as cards with only minimal relations to their civilisations. In this case, discriminating against German cards is unavoidable but can't really be the main reason for having 3 coureurs instead.

Giskard: BrianManahan = Tsar_Ivan_VII? Discuss.
Giskard: BrianManahan = Tsar_Ivan_VII. It's no longer a question.
Giskard: Isn't BrianManahan liable to be banned anyway for being the smurf of a banned forumer (Tsar_Ivan_VII)?
BrianManahan: I'm not sure who that is, Giskard, but I see what you is trying to do. I don't smurf >:O

(One day later) Moderator Announcements: Tsar_Ivan_VII / BrianManahan Banned Permanently - IP Match
StevoPhilo
Skirmisher
posted 05-01-08 06:02 PM EDT (US)     22 / 37       
3 cours = 3.75 villies whereas the 2 settler wagon = 4 villies. Regardless of how long germans get their shipments, the settler wagons will gather up faster and eventually give more resources than the cours you get earlier. Also 20 sw and 99 settlers. Can't go wrong with that? 80 cours = 100 settlers.
Giskard
Skirmisher
posted 05-02-08 04:40 AM EDT (US)     23 / 37       
I still think 3 coureurs is a more versatile card, but as a French player I might be just a little biased. I also doubt that 0.25 villagers gives 2 settler wagons the advantage, but I'll accept that maybe I just don't know the value of shaving 1.5 seconds off your age time. Changing now.

Giskard: BrianManahan = Tsar_Ivan_VII? Discuss.
Giskard: BrianManahan = Tsar_Ivan_VII. It's no longer a question.
Giskard: Isn't BrianManahan liable to be banned anyway for being the smurf of a banned forumer (Tsar_Ivan_VII)?
BrianManahan: I'm not sure who that is, Giskard, but I see what you is trying to do. I don't smurf >:O

(One day later) Moderator Announcements: Tsar_Ivan_VII / BrianManahan Banned Permanently - IP Match
Spectruz
Skirmisher
posted 05-02-08 11:07 AM EDT (US)     24 / 37       
Best Team
Conchido

Best Treaty
Factories

Best Aggressive
9xbows+2uhlans

Best Defensive
CM for mostly of civ, but for French I take pioneers, combined with market upgrade French become almost unraidble.

Best Water

3 Privateer for 500 gold in Colonial ( Iroquois), u can take any other water card down, close second Aztecs Water Dance.


Best Versatile
I have to agree 3CB best in game, then 2 SW, 3 Vills, u don't think so, what do u think makes Ports so weak in colonial, no trickle card and no vills card.
Lord_Richjp
Skirmisher
posted 05-02-08 12:08 PM EDT (US)     25 / 37       
France has no shipment penalty, so you'll see 3 CDBs before you get 2 SWs.
You can compare the value of 2 cards by which civ gets them.

Also, 5 SWs of pop is definately not too much extra.

My grandmother slaps harder than the Agra Fort shoots. And she's dead. ~ Ender_Ward

By the same token, if I attempt to operate the mouse using nothing but my butt-cheeks, micro will also come down to "luck." ~ Beatnikjoe
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