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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » The best and the worst technologies in the game
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Topic Subject:The best and the worst technologies in the game
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Giskard
Skirmisher
posted 05-05-08 07:56 PM EDT (US)         
I'll condense both halves of this analysis into one thread, as I suspect the worst technology won't be hard to figure out. What this topic is about is finding the most cost-efficient technology in the game, and conversely the least useful technology for its cost. This covers all researchable items except technology cards (e.g. Advanced Arsenal) and age-ups (because it's rather hard to argue against them). Following the pattern from my other threads, if you want to advocate a particular technology post with reasons and if they're good enough I'll list that technology. Also, I'll subdivide the "best" sticker into four categories: best unique church technology, best minor native technology, best military technology and best economic technology. Here are the best and the worst technologies in the entire game:

Best unique church technology - Petrine Reforms

Best minor native technology - Incan Road-building

Best military technology - Elite Coyote Runner

Best economic technology - Hunting dogs

Worst technology - Wild West

If anyone has a better technology to advocate or a technology even more useless than Wild West please post here.

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[This message has been edited by Giskard (edited 05-10-2008 @ 06:05 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
Emperor_Kyle
Skirmisher
posted 05-07-08 06:32 PM EDT (US)     26 / 49       
Mercantilism is definitely a useful one, I think. Hunting dogs is also really good.

About the blockade matter; like spies, it's too overpriced to be considered a good tech, but if you're filthy-rich then it's pretty useful.

The three resource-upgrades at the capitol are awesome, no doubt about that.

ESO2: Kyle_The_Brave
Clan: Proud Officer of Trỉρℓε ΣņτễηţϠ, [TΣ]

"Why make your own inspirational quotes when you can just read the side of O_Man's Ssips juices?" - A wise prophet
"The best way to die is to spontaneously combust during a drum solo battle with Lars Ulrich" - The Blair

[This message has been edited by Emperor_Kyle (edited 05-07-2008 @ 06:33 PM).]

Mapppp
Skirmisher
(id: Jimmy2)
posted 05-07-08 08:29 PM EDT (US)     27 / 49       
Yeah, Mercantalism is a great tech. It instantly gives you access to at least one card (except during really long games where you have already had 30 shipments), more during the beginning of a game. It is probably the most versatile tech in the game, asides the fact that it is European and Japanese exclusive

◓◓◓◓◓
Colonel_UGMO
Veteran Musketeer (Content Contributor)
posted 05-08-08 05:40 AM EDT (US)     28 / 49       
Giskard can you add best native technology. Some of them are pretty sweet.

ESO NAME: UGMO
RANK: 1st Lieutenant
I AM USING: TAD
I AM PLAYING: The Aztecs, British and Russians
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Emperor_Kyle
Skirmisher
posted 05-08-08 06:23 AM EDT (US)     29 / 49       
One of my favorite Native Techs is Morning Wars. During a long game, it can be pretty useful. Take one of my games yesterday for example:

20 mantlets at no cost? Want!

Aztec Chocolate Recipe is similarly good.

ESO2: Kyle_The_Brave
Clan: Proud Officer of Trỉρℓε ΣņτễηţϠ, [TΣ]

"Why make your own inspirational quotes when you can just read the side of O_Man's Ssips juices?" - A wise prophet
"The best way to die is to spontaneously combust during a drum solo battle with Lars Ulrich" - The Blair
As_Saffah
Scenario Reviewer
posted 05-08-08 10:08 AM EDT (US)     30 / 49       
Vanilla Iro Lacrosse was pretty good times. Inca techs and the vanilla Dog soldier button are also good.

Crunkatog on ESO
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Lord_Richjp
Skirmisher
posted 05-08-08 11:30 AM EDT (US)     31 / 49       
1 card for 1500 coin is not a good deal... 2 or 3, then yes, but for 1 card, no.

My grandmother slaps harder than the Agra Fort shoots. And she's dead. ~ Ender_Ward

By the same token, if I attempt to operate the mouse using nothing but my butt-cheeks, micro will also come down to "luck." ~ Beatnikjoe
Giskard
Skirmisher
posted 05-08-08 11:51 AM EDT (US)     32 / 49       
Giskard can you add best native technology. Some of them are pretty sweet.
Good idea, adding now.

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[This message has been edited by Giskard (edited 05-08-2008 @ 11:51 AM).]

Emperor_Kyle
Skirmisher
posted 05-08-08 03:36 PM EDT (US)     33 / 49       
Unless you have a lot of mercs in your deck, the German tech that makes mercs free is pretty bad. Okay, I don't have to pay for mercenaries, I'll just pay a flat fee of 4000 gold instead. That sounds lovely! =D

I'm surprised that nobody mentioned Mass Cavalry yet. Maybe I'm just a noob or something, but I find that tech to be very useful.

ESO2: Kyle_The_Brave
Clan: Proud Officer of Trỉρℓε ΣņτễηţϠ, [TΣ]

"Why make your own inspirational quotes when you can just read the side of O_Man's Ssips juices?" - A wise prophet
"The best way to die is to spontaneously combust during a drum solo battle with Lars Ulrich" - The Blair
Giskard
Skirmisher
posted 05-08-08 05:00 PM EDT (US)     34 / 49       
@ Emperor_Kyle:

You're right, I don't know why I didn't think of Wallenstein's Contracts before. Particularly as Germany's other unique church technologies are so bad (so you'd have no reason to send the card) and Germany is too pop-intensive to support continual mercenary armies. However, I can't quite make it the worst technology, because I think there might be a moderately successful team slingshot strategy that uses it. Also, in the right circumstances (mercenary-oriented deck, eventual advance to Imperial) it can save over 23,000 gold (not including the infinite TEAM Jaegers card that you'll keep on getting free). That's enough for Blockade!

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Giskard: Isn't BrianManahan liable to be banned anyway for being the smurf of a banned forumer (Tsar_Ivan_VII)?
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[This message has been edited by Giskard (edited 05-11-2008 @ 07:12 AM).]

Emperor_Kyle
Skirmisher
posted 05-09-08 11:00 PM EDT (US)     35 / 49       
I forget the name of the tech (I think it was stadhouders or something), but the Dutch tech that gives you 30 vet musketeers for 2000 coin is very useful.

ESO2: Kyle_The_Brave
Clan: Proud Officer of Trỉρℓε ΣņτễηţϠ, [TΣ]

"Why make your own inspirational quotes when you can just read the side of O_Man's Ssips juices?" - A wise prophet
"The best way to die is to spontaneously combust during a drum solo battle with Lars Ulrich" - The Blair
LordKivlov
Royal Guard
posted 05-09-08 11:21 PM EDT (US)     36 / 49       
It gives you Guard Musketeers, not veteran, and yes, it's Stadhouders.

Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan
Giskard
Skirmisher
posted 05-10-08 05:00 AM EDT (US)     37 / 49       
I believe Stadhouders saves 2500 resources. Also, you get the benefits immediately, and as Dutch can't get musketeers they form an invaluable part of your army. It's a tough call, but I think I'd say it's a better technology than Petrine Reforms. Changing now.

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LordKivlov
Royal Guard
posted 05-10-08 05:14 AM EDT (US)     38 / 49       
Actually, it's a worse technology, since the benefits of the Russian army are far greater than 30 musketeers. Not only does your score jump 400, but by the time you tech it, you're using Opris, Cossacks, Musketeers, and Strelets so it saves time and a ton of resources. Stadhouder is only good if you FI, which isn't viable anymore, not even in team games.

I use both Dutch and Russia as my main civs, I haven't used the Dutch unique church card in years. I'm quite aware that popping 30 guard musketeers onto the field is powerful, I used a FF 5 falc go industrial and tech the stadhouder strats quite successfully for a long time, but the benefits from Russia's normal->veteran->guard is MUCH much better.

Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan

[This message has been edited by LordKivlov (edited 05-10-2008 @ 05:18 AM).]

Giskard
Skirmisher
posted 05-10-08 05:25 AM EDT (US)     39 / 49       
The only reason I decided Petrine Reforms might not be the best was because I doubted that most Russian players used a sufficiently versatile army to make the most out of it. If you could give me a guarantee that you play Russia a great deal and always use a very mixed army in Age4 then I might switch it back.

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LordKivlov
Royal Guard
posted 05-10-08 05:27 AM EDT (US)     40 / 49       
http://www.elorating.com/portal/portal/default/Players/AOE3PlayerPortletWindow?op=setSearch&action=2&searchString=LordKivlov

Look at all the cute little Russian flags.

Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan
Giskard
Skirmisher
posted 05-10-08 06:04 AM EDT (US)     41 / 49       
Fair enough. Unless another Russian player contradicts you, I'll assume that Petrine Reforms saves more than Stadhouders. Changing now.

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LordKivlov
Royal Guard
posted 05-10-08 06:30 AM EDT (US)     42 / 49       
Well you can't really compare the two as "saving more", you compare their effectiveness. Stadhouder gives a swack of strong units for the same cost that Russia makes all of their units really strong for really cheap.

Comparison if you will:

Veteran + Guard = 1600 resources + 3000 worth of Musketeers. A total of 4600.

Guard for Strelet, Halberdier, Grenadier (RG), Cav Archer (RG), Cossack, Oprichnik and Musketeer. A total of 10, 000 resources. On top of Strelet/Musketeer/Cossack as veteran for a total of 1200 resources.

All that for a measly 3400 resources?

Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan
Giskard
Skirmisher
posted 05-10-08 07:27 AM EDT (US)     43 / 49       
Well you can't really compare the two as "saving more"
Isn't that what you just did?
Veteran + Guard = 1600 resources + 3000 worth of Musketeers. A total of 4600
There is often controversy over how much value an upgrade has as part of a technology/shipment when the civilisation can't use the upgrade afterwards. An example would be the debate over the value of the 13 Polish Winged Hussars before it was nerfed. The Portuguese technology "Bestieros", after giving a guard crossbowman upgrade allowed players to keep producing guard crossbowmen, so the upgrade had its full value. However, after sending the Hussars a German player still couldn't produce Guard Hussars. Some thought the upgrades' value should be counted, others thought it shouldn't. In this case it makes very little difference, but for future reference I prefer to calculate it this way:

30 Musketeers = 3000 resources

Veteran & Guard Upgrade = 1.5 * base statistics = 1.5 * value

Total = 3000 * 1.5 = 4500 resources

Either way it's irrelevant as you've already convinced me Petrine Reforms is a better technology.

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Emperor_Kyle
Skirmisher
posted 05-10-08 07:56 AM EDT (US)     44 / 49       
Guard musketeers? Well, that makes it even better then. I think Petrine Reforms is better if you have a versatile army, though.

ESO2: Kyle_The_Brave
Clan: Proud Officer of Trỉρℓε ΣņτễηţϠ, [TΣ]

"Why make your own inspirational quotes when you can just read the side of O_Man's Ssips juices?" - A wise prophet
"The best way to die is to spontaneously combust during a drum solo battle with Lars Ulrich" - The Blair
LordKivlov
Royal Guard
posted 05-10-08 08:09 AM EDT (US)     45 / 49       
Isn't that what you just did?
Well, you aren't really saving anything on the Dutch tech, you're just getting a whole lot of stuff, whereas all you're doing on the Russian tech is saving a lot.

Though, that's a good way to look at tech's like that.

Even if you don't have a versatile army, it's still a great tech because of the score boost. It adds something like 400 score, which is a HUGE intimidation factor. Even if your opponent knows what you did, they don't know what your real score is anymore and have nothing to base how well you're doing off anymore. I tech it even when all I'm using is Strelet/Oprichniks.

Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan

[This message has been edited by LordKivlov (edited 05-10-2008 @ 08:12 AM).]

Giskard
Skirmisher
posted 05-10-08 03:08 PM EDT (US)     46 / 49       
So it's decided. Now go play as Russians vs. Aztecs:

- Research Hunting dogs to boost your early economy
- Be very worried as your Fortress Age opponent attacks with Elite Coyote Runners
- Advance to Industrial Age and uberfy your army with Petrine Reforms
- Scream in rage as your opponent grabs the Inca trading post and researches Incan Road-building for his now incredibly fast infantry
- Retaliate with your overpowered Wild Western outlaws... Oh, wait a moment...

Now wasn't that handy?

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Eicho
Skirmisher
posted 05-10-08 04:37 PM EDT (US)     47 / 49       
Agree with Kivlov.

Sometimes in team games (GV, almost the only teamgames i play) the enemy team gets scared becuase they see im 500+ score while they are all at 200+, and everythign i did was Westernalization
Colonel_UGMO
Veteran Musketeer (Content Contributor)
posted 05-10-08 05:34 PM EDT (US)     48 / 49       
Rogers Rangers is very similar. Give you 28 guard skirms which the british can't make either

ESO NAME: UGMO
RANK: 1st Lieutenant
I AM USING: TAD
I AM PLAYING: The Aztecs, British and Russians
.oO James246: Well, you wouldn't be able to sigg any dumb things I say, because I don't say them. :P Oo.
Giskard
Skirmisher
posted 05-12-08 02:39 PM EDT (US)     49 / 49       
skirms which the british can't make either
So the British can't make skirmishers, the French can't make grenadiers and the organ gun is unique to Portugal. That makes a lot of sense.

EDIT: All new ideas to be directed to the "Best and the Worst" sticky please.

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Giskard: Isn't BrianManahan liable to be banned anyway for being the smurf of a banned forumer (Tsar_Ivan_VII)?
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[This message has been edited by Giskard (edited 05-12-2008 @ 05:03 PM).]

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