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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » HG FFA Tourney Suggestions?
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Topic Subject:HG FFA Tourney Suggestions?
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CrazyLunatic
Veteran Musketeer
posted 05-10-09 01:21 PM EDT (US)         
Please post any suggestions you have here so we can figure out how to organize this tournament
Tell me which rules/point awards to add or remove please
Note: the Rules will be finalized by May 16 so please post any changes you want by then please

Rules (Tentative) Breaking any of these will result in your points from that round not being counted
-Nobody can age to fortress until one person has resigned
-Nobody can age to industrial until an additional person has resigned
-Nobody can age to imperial until there are only 2 people left in the game
-No excessive swearing/racial jokes/etc... (if somebody is offended post screen shot to get other person disqualified for that round )
- Cheating results in immediate disqualification from all rounds
-The PR rule works like this, it should give everyone above 30 +0, under 30 +1, under 20 +2, under 10 +3. (Need comments for this)
Walls
-No walls allowed during Discovery or Discovery/Colonial transition
Maximum one wall per base in Colonial
Maximum two walls in the main base; one in secondary bases during Fortress
Maximum three walls in the main base; two in secondary bases during Industrial
Maximum five walls per base in Imperial
A base being roughly defined as any set of buildings such that they hold production capabilities and are set at least one screen apart from any other set of buildings.
The main base being the one where the starting TC is located, and, if that TC is destroyed, where the next largest base is.
If you do not comply all points for this match will be void

Possible Points:
First off people will be put in tiers based on pr
1-10, 11-20, 21-30, 31+ (your KO points will be based on which tier you take down)
-Winning = 7 Points
-Second = 5 Points
-Third = 3 Points
-KO’ing an Opponent = 4 Points* +/-2 for each tier difference
-Knocking a Starting TC Sub- 7 mins= 10 points for your tier +/-2 for each tier difference
-Knocking Starting TC Sub-10 Mins = 5 Points for your tier +/-2 for each tier difference
-Knocking a Starting TC Sub-15 Mins = 3 Points for your tier +/-2 for each tier difference
-First to 1000 Points = 2 Points
-Revolting = 4 Points**
-2X Teamed = 4 Points***
-3X Teamed = 6 Points
-Fastest age up time(to colonial)= 4 Points
-Slowest age up time(to colonial)= 4 Points
-First to kill a villager= 1 Points (Opinions?)
-Winning with Trade Monopoly= 4 Points(In addition to points for winning)
-First to trigger Trade Monopoly= 4 Points
-Playing without a deck = 4 Points
-Unique civ= 2 points (Suggestions?)
-Most treasures= 1 point
-Killing Trade Monopoly= 2 Points (goes to 1 person who kills the tp that actually stops the monopoly)
-

* - KO’s may be split between 2 or 3
** - All KO points gained after revolting are Doubled. Points for winning are also doubled (including winning with TM).
*** - This my decision whether you doubled or not.

QUACK

[This message has been edited by CrazyLunatic (edited 05-13-2009 @ 08:20 PM).]

AuthorReplies:
CrazyLunatic
Veteran Musketeer
posted 05-11-09 03:45 PM EDT (US)     26 / 79       
My game is in French. :/

The only back up is for english.
perhaps that's why the read me said to make a back up copy of the original files...
which makes killing a TC in 7 mins pretty much impossible... well unless the guy is a huge noob and has never heard of minutemen...
ya so i think the 10 points for sub 7 minutes is ok right? because i doubt anyone will be able to do that

as for decks i put that if you play without a deck the entire game that's 3 points?

Also, what map(s) should this be on? I'm thinking a different map for each round, but all ffa's within the round should have the same map. Anyway, give me some good suggestions for maps that can have a nice FFA (IMO water maps not a good idea since there will be 5/6 people per ffa)

QUACK

[This message has been edited by CrazyLunatic (edited 05-11-2009 @ 03:51 PM).]

goodspeed2
Skirmisher
posted 05-11-09 04:29 PM EDT (US)     27 / 79       
well someone might pull it off with a gren/pike rush against a noob... imo giving points for killing TCs fast isn't a good idea, because it'll only make all the bad players lose their TC really fast, while the good players will all be left alone. 4 points for knocking someone out is the same story.

imo take out the TC rules, obviously give points for knocking someone out, but make it depend on the PR of the player you knocked out, at least in the first 30 mins.

imo in the first 30 mins if you knock out someone PR10 or less, that's 1 point, and you get 3 more points for every +10 PR. like knocking out a lvl 16 to 25 = 4 points, 26-35 = 7 points, 36+ = 10 points etc... after 30 mins imo 5 points for every knock out.

some of the players are underranked or inactive though, or have never played TAD, so we'll have to somehow guess their PR :/

but imo there should definitely be rules like this, to protect lower ranked players. would make it much more fun to everyone. it's not like calculating points would become that much more difficult.. i'm up for the job either way


about maps: imo 1 competitive map per round, no water maps.
which would include: Great plains, Yukon, Andes, Pampas, Mongolia, Siberia, and Painted desert.

[This message has been edited by goodspeed2 (edited 05-11-2009 @ 04:44 PM).]

CrazyLunatic
Veteran Musketeer
posted 05-11-09 05:34 PM EDT (US)     28 / 79       
k so maybe put a multiplier for KO/ tc downs?

points x.1(PR) that sounds ok?

Ya but i'm not really sure how that's going to work out since pr isn't always correct and people might use smurfs at lower pr to win so maybe just scratch the pr rule?

QUACK

[This message has been edited by CrazyLunatic (edited 05-11-2009 @ 05:36 PM).]

Incognoto
Skirmisher
posted 05-11-09 05:56 PM EDT (US)     29 / 79       
Imo rank shouldn't have anything with the score, as rank has nothing to do with skill, cept perhaps being a vague indicator of how well someone can scrape a win.
Bastiaan
Skirmisher
posted 05-11-09 06:11 PM EDT (US)     30 / 79       
Well i havent posted here in a long time but this FFA is so much fun ill come back I participated in the first few.

A few important things:

You NEED to give points for being double teamed (attacked by 2 players at any given time) - i would suggest 4 like in the original post. This is very important to make the games any fun at all.

You also need to disqualify anyone who seems to be specifically teaming with someone.

The "only using petards" is useless, this is very easy to do. Free 3 points.

Fastest age to colonial shouldnt give points - it gives benefits of its own, its good that slowest gives points as that is a risk you take with only points as true benefit.

Winning with TM should obviously be on top of winning points

Winning with revolt whould give (quite a few) extra points.

Revolting should give points regardless wheter or not it has a real purpose.

The PR rule works in the wrong way like this, it should give everyone under 30 +1, under 20 +2, under 10 +3. This is to make sure that if you have a bad game or whatever, you dont end up negative while you at least did decent - Also positive approach is always better than negative :P

First to kill a villager is rather strange, i would remove this.

Wall spamming: You should limit players to 2 walls to be used wherever they want. A "segment" in the game is a single small part of a wall. You could define a wall as a circle/half circle around your town/fb, i think everyone with common sense will see what is 1 wall and what is 2 (you could technically connect 2 walls and make a point that this is 1 wall, but well, just dont do it and you are safe

I would like to give points for not laming, id say 2. This is for instance not laming certain units (cuir, opri, sam, dop, siege raid) how to define this is difficult, but for instance pure spam of 1 unit is def. laming, and if you do nothing but opri raid, well that is laming too. You are allowed to do it a couple of times ofc, but not endless, thats the point.

Unique civ should give points, it are easy points but the more different civs the more fun a game is. 1 point for it is fine.

Most rtreasures should give 1 point.

Killing a trade monoply should give 3 points, this is about the final blow only. These dont count for yourself obviously if you delete your own tp to cancel it.

Without a deck should give no points imo, without you wont make much of a chance whatever you do, so it's technically gaining a few free points and then give up.

It needs to be played on AgeSanc Fan patch to reach more high ranked players as well as to make the game more enjoyable.

The rules could be implemented in certain games but not all. There are a lot of fun things you can think of to do in 1 game but only that game.

You should use the scenario MosheLevi suggested in the last thread of the last series, that would be OP and save everyone a lot of time.

There's much more to it but ill think of that later.

GS, we should cut down on complicated rules imo. I would just say KOing a player should give an additional point for every rank higher than you (rank as in 1st lt-capt-major) and -1 for every 2 lower but to a minimum of 2 points for a KO. but nothing more, as to keep it simple.

Maps should be pre set for every round, water maps are ok occasionally, but not too much.
Pimpman3001
Skirmisher
posted 05-11-09 07:19 PM EDT (US)     31 / 79       
haha i used to have a strat where i'd have 10 grens and 7 pikes in the enenmys base by like 6 min...might have to dust that off

More seriously i think a fun theme would be civs are picked randomly. This way would make for a very interesting game

Heros
Cookie
James
Kiv
I'm Back...3peat
CrazyLunatic
Veteran Musketeer
posted 05-11-09 07:21 PM EDT (US)     32 / 79       
You NEED to give points for being double teamed (attacked by 2 players at any given time) - i would suggest 4 like in the original post. This is very important to make the games any fun at all.
ok, so 4 for double team, 6 for triple teamed (unlikely) is enough then?

You also need to disqualify anyone who seems to be specifically teaming with someone.
sounds good, but how can I tell if they are? Double teaming could just have happened by accident

The "only using petards" is useless, this is very easy to do. Free 3 points.
being aware of this rule, i'm guessing that players will be more inclined to keeping defense by their tc making it pretty hard (if not impossible) to take tc down only with petards.

Fastest age to colonial shouldnt give points - it gives benefits of its own, its good that slowest gives points as that is a risk you take with only points as true benefit.
Well it is a risk, you'll have to sacrifice your eco by quite a bit to get those points

Winning with TM should obviously be on top of winning points
Yes it is, i'll reclarify in original post

Winning with revolt whould give (quite a few) extra points.
Ok sounds good

Revolting should give points regardless wheter or not it has a real purpose.
Ok

The PR rule works in the wrong way like this, it should give everyone under 30 +1, under 20 +2, under 10 +3. This is to make sure that if you have a bad game or whatever, you dont end up negative while you at least did decent - Also positive approach is always better than negative :P
ok what about people above 30? start with 0?

First to kill a villager is rather strange, i would remove this.
I don't know, might encourage more raiding= which may be fun, i'll see what others have to say about this one

Wall spamming: You should limit players to 2 walls to be used wherever they want. A "segment" in the game is a single small part of a wall. You could define a wall as a circle/half circle around your town/fb, i think everyone with common sense will see what is 1 wall and what is 2 (you could technically connect 2 walls and make a point that this is 1 wall, but well, just dont do it and you are safe
I'm thinking no walls allowed, or 1/2 layers max perhaps. I'm thinking allowing 1/2 layers max is probably better as russia will have a huge advantage when game reaches fortress with oprnichks without walls

I would like to give points for not laming, id say 2. This is for instance not laming certain units (cuir, opri, sam, dop, siege raid) how to define this is difficult, but for instance pure spam of 1 unit is def. laming, and if you do nothing but opri raid, well that is laming too. You are allowed to do it a couple of times ofc, but not endless, thats the point.
Well in this ffa, there will be colonial fighting for sure, and only 2 players get to continue on to imperial age, so there won't really be that much opportunity for laming. However this rule is a bit strange i must admit so i'll see what others think

Unique civ should give points, it are easy points but the more different civs the more fun a game is. 1 point for it is fine.
14 civs and only 6 people max in a game, so it's very possible for people to use different civs. However, i don't really see why this is necessary, the rules seem to be so random that no civ in particular will have a huge bonus IMO

Most rtreasures should give 1 point.
Ok, sounds reasonable

Killing a trade monoply should give 3 points, this is about the final blow only. These dont count for yourself obviously if you delete your own tp to cancel it.
lol ok. What if several people take down different trade posts though, should it be split then? (split 3 points hmmm... i don't want points going into decimals)

Without a deck should give no points imo, without you wont make much of a chance whatever you do, so it's technically gaining a few free points and then give up.
Well if nobody will do it there's no harm , just an interesting rule to throw it around a bit just in case somebody wants to try it

It needs to be played on AgeSanc Fan patch to reach more high ranked players as well as to make the game more enjoyable.
Yes, that's what i'm thinking

The rules could be implemented in certain games but not all. There are a lot of fun things you can think of to do in 1 game but only that game.
These rules will definitely be implemented in all round 1 games. Maybe we could use other rules for round 2? I'm thinking that that's just too much of a hassle though so 1 set of rules for the whole tourney is enough. Let's see what others think

You should use the scenario MosheLevi suggested in the last thread of the last series, that would be OP and save everyone a lot of time.
I checked and it looks like he just mentioned its possible. I don't think anyone actually made it yet

There's much more to it but ill think of that later.
K thanks for your input
GS, we should cut down on complicated rules imo. I would just say KOing a player should give an additional point for every rank higher than you (rank as in 1st lt-capt-major) and -1 for every 2 lower but to a minimum of 2 points for a KO. but nothing more, as to keep it simple.
only problem is that some people might then just use smurfs to get mega- points. Perhaps just not using rank at all? IMO rank helps, but it doesn't guarantee a win in a FFA as the lower players will be more likely to team up on higher ones

Maps should be pre set for every round, water maps are ok occasionally, but not too much.
well 6 people in game on water maps might just suck so i'm not sure if that's a good idea

QUACK

[This message has been edited by CrazyLunatic (edited 05-11-2009 @ 07:24 PM).]

iTech64
Scenario Reviewer
posted 05-11-09 08:33 PM EDT (US)     33 / 79       
on the trade monopoly thing: id say the person who kills the trade post that stops the trade monopoly gets the points.

iTech64
Rank: Captain
My Strategies:French Semi-FF | French 2x Musket Rush | French 2x Xbow Rush
My Mapguides: Northwest Territories
goodspeed2
Skirmisher
posted 05-11-09 09:56 PM EDT (US)     34 / 79       
You NEED to give points for being double teamed (attacked by 2 players at any given time) - i would suggest 4 like in the original post. This is very important to make the games any fun at all.
more than 4 imo. btw where's the rule that said 5 points for every 10 mins you hold while being double teamed?

I would like to give points for not laming, id say 2. This is for instance not laming certain units (cuir, opri, sam, dop, siege raid) how to define this is difficult, but for instance pure spam of 1 unit is def. laming, and if you do nothing but opri raid, well that is laming too. You are allowed to do it a couple of times ofc, but not endless, thats the point.
it's too hard to draw a line as to when something is laming, and it isn't necessary anyway. for example if you're french and get to imperial, i guess you have an advantage... the risk of taking a civ like french will then be that others will be willing to take you out early, so it will be hard to get to imp in the first place. no need for such a rule.

Killing a trade monoply should give 3 points, this is about the final blow only. These dont count for yourself obviously if you delete your own tp to cancel it.
killing a TM shouldn't give that many points because it's way too easy. also if killing TM gives 3 points, no one will ever go for TM, since it's impossible to hold 4+ TPs against 2+ opponents for 3 minutes (or was it 5?).

GS, we should cut down on complicated rules imo. I would just say KOing a player should give an additional point for every rank higher than you (rank as in 1st lt-capt-major) and -1 for every 2 lower but to a minimum of 2 points for a KO. but nothing more, as to keep it simple.
that's more complicated than what i suggested, and would give way way too many points as well. a PR26 and a PR10 taking out a PR35 in late imperial, would then give both the PR26 guy 10+ points, and the PR10 would get over 25, while double teaming someone in late imperial and winning can't be considered that hard...
just go before 30 mins knocking out a PR0-15=1p, pr16-25=4p, pr26-35=7p, pr36+=10p. after 30 mins, every knockout is 5p. simpler and sounds a lot fairer to me.
about the smurfing etc, i don't think people are pathetic enough to smurf in a competition like this, especially high ranked players who really only play this for fun and nothing else. if certain players have less than 10 games on TAD or decayed, we can just give them a new theoretical PR to calculate with.


Maps should be pre set for every round, water maps are ok occasionally, but not too much.
6 player FFAs and enormous water battles = unplayable




agree with everything else

[This message has been edited by goodspeed2 (edited 05-11-2009 @ 10:02 PM).]

CrazyLunatic
Veteran Musketeer
posted 05-11-09 10:47 PM EDT (US)     35 / 79       
more than 4 imo. btw where's the rule that said 5 points for every 10 mins you hold while being double teamed?
well getting second place is 5 points getting third place is 3 points. IMO getting double teamed shouldn't give you as many(or more) points than getting second place
it's too hard to draw a line as to when something is laming, and it isn't necessary anyway. for example if you're french and get to imperial, i guess you have an advantage... the risk of taking a civ like french will then be that others will be willing to take you out early, so it will be hard to get to imp in the first place. no need for such a rule.
ya agree. Laming could entail a lot of things, a gendarme spam could be considered laming, but most people will mix in skirms/cannons with it so it's quite hard to draw a line. Also as people can only go imperial when there are only 2 left, i don't think imperial unit laming should be a MAJOR problem.
killing a TM shouldn't give that many points because it's way too easy. also if killing TM gives 3 points, no one will ever go for TM, since it's impossible to hold 4+ TPs against 2+ opponents for 3 minutes (or was it 5?).
valid point. I made it 4 pts for starting one and 2 pts for ending one. IMO it isn't too much for starting one, because in a ffa with about 3 players left(need to be industrial to trigger TM) One person most likely will not have that many tps.
just go before 30 mins knocking out a PR0-15=1p, pr16-25=4p, pr26-35=7p, pr36+=10p. after 30 mins, every knockout is 5p. simpler and sounds a lot fairer to me.
IMO it should be scaled a bit knocking out a pr 27 for someone pr 36+ shouldn't be very hard so shouldn't give them 7 pts. I'm thinking to divide between pr 1-10, 11-20, 21-30, 31+. Knocking someone out 1 below your tier is 1 pt, in your tier 2pts, 1 above your tier 3 pts, 2 above your tier 4 pts, 3 above your tier 5 pts (not too much because someone <pr10 won't take down a pr36 without double teaming which will then make them lose points lol)
about the smurfing etc, i don't think people are pathetic enough to smurf in a competition like this, especially high ranked players who really only play this for fun and nothing else. if certain players have less than 10 games on TAD or decayed, we can just give them a new theoretical PR to calculate with.
ya ok. There isn't really any award except for an ego boost, so it shouldn't be a major problem.

QUACK
Bastiaan
Skirmisher
posted 05-12-09 02:19 AM EDT (US)     36 / 79       
Valid points against the laming thing, ignore what i said on it :P

GS you misunderstand what i meant with "rank", a pr 26=captain, 35=colonel, thats 3 above. (major, lt col, col)

You could limit this to 7 points but tbh if a pr 10 takes out a pr 35, he deserves quite some points.

As to walling: I would allow 2 layers max.

Unique civ: I know this is pretty much a free point, but anyone can get that easy so that isnt really a problem right? And more diversity is generally more fun, so it does make for slightly more fun games and everyone gets a free point, no one is harmed? :P

With bonus points based on PR regardless of how you play, i think 3 for under 10, 2 for under 20 and 1 for under 30, 0 for 30+ should work fine. IDK if you will even need additional points for the KO rule. And KO with KO i mean actually killing an opponent: Knocking down a tc shouldnt give points on PR, this is not so hard...

Personally i am against fastest ageup points, but i can see where you are coming from and i wouldnt mind you keeping it in.

Thanks for being so open to suggestions
redeye_ok
Skirmisher
posted 05-12-09 03:59 AM EDT (US)     37 / 79       
not too sure if you are, but i suggest using the majority of the rules from the old ffa tourney
Bart331
Skirmisher
posted 05-12-09 05:04 AM EDT (US)     38 / 79       
just go before 30 mins knocking out a PR0-15=1p, pr16-25=4p, pr26-35=7p, pr36+=10p. after 30 mins, every knockout is 5p. simpler and sounds a lot fairer to me.
The PR rules sounds a bit complicated and in combination with the decay that some players might have it can give some strange results.
-Knocking a Starting TC Sub- 7 mins= 10 points for your tier +/-2 for each tier difference
-Knocking Starting TC Sub-10 Mins = 8 Points for your tier +/-2 for each tier difference
-Knocking a Starting TC Sub-15 Mins = 4 Points for your tier +/-2 for each tier difference
isnt 8 point a bit too much for knocking a tc of an even skilled person? There is an huge difference between knocking a tc and ko a player. Also if you can backstab one person it becomes quite easy to siege his tc.
-First to kill a villager= 2 Points (Opinions?)
make it 1 point and it's a fun rule
-Only using Petards to kill someones original tc= 3 Points (Opinions?)
This one can be taken out imo
-Unique civ= 2 points (Suggestions?)
great rule, you would be stupid not to go for an unique civ
-The PR rule works like this, it should give everyone above 30 +0, under 30 +1, under 20 +2, under 10 +3. (Need comments for this)
Yeah thats fair

SUNIL IS NUB!!!

Battle.net:Bart (227)
ESO:Bart331
MannisEi
Skirmisher
posted 05-12-09 05:46 AM EDT (US)     39 / 79       
And unique civ means something else than german or french?

O o
/Ż/___________________________ _ __/
| ITS OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAAAND!!!
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Bart331
Skirmisher
posted 05-12-09 06:15 AM EDT (US)     40 / 79       
it means you are the only one using that civ in the that particular game

SUNIL IS NUB!!!

Battle.net:Bart (227)
ESO:Bart331
Bastiaan
Skirmisher
posted 05-12-09 08:12 AM EDT (US)     41 / 79       
I Think you should not give extra points to low rank players just for killing a TC.

GS, you mentioned something about 5 points for every so many minutes double teamed. IMO it's better if you just get instant 4 points as soon as you fight 2 people at the same time (a true attack, not a small raid or whatever), 6 if this is 3 people (this actually did happen quite some times) Limit this to 2x per game though - so max 12 points for being 2x triple teamed... if you are triple teamed throughout the entire game other measures are needed i think, but this shouldnt happen at all IMO, just make this disqualifying for 1 round as then it would obviously be teaming together.
goodspeed2
Skirmisher
posted 05-12-09 08:43 AM EDT (US)     42 / 79       
4 for being double teamed is ok, but imo if you get double teamed and survive for say 5 mins, you should also be rewarded points..

1 post for the first to kill a villager could be fun , i can see the age1 minutemen already. fun rule imo.

i like the PR tier thing, implement it in the KO rule

and the petard rule should be taken out, 1

rest is good
Bastiaan
Skirmisher
posted 05-12-09 08:45 AM EDT (US)     43 / 79       
Just do whatever goodspeed says as long as he listens to me, it will be fine 21
Ha_Luke
Sig Award Winner
posted 05-12-09 09:33 AM EDT (US)     44 / 79       
just go before 30 mins knocking out a PR0-15=1p, pr16-25=4p, pr26-35=7p, pr36+=10p. after 30 mins, every knockout is 5p. simpler and sounds a lot fairer to me.
1-10, 11-20, 21-30, 31+ (your KO points will be based on which tier you take down)
-Knocking a Starting TC Sub- 7 mins= 10 points for your tier +/-2 for each tier difference
-Knocking Starting TC Sub-10 Mins = 8 Points for your tier +/-2 for each tier difference
-Knocking a Starting TC Sub-15 Mins = 4 Points for your tier +/-2 for each tier difference
No, no, no. It's only complicated and doesn't add anything fun. If you want to give the lower ranked players a bonus, only do it once. Give them a (small) bonus (like a handicap), not when you knock someone out or get a TC down.

In a FFA everyone is equal and that's nice. So the only rule for PR I would add is this one:
The PR rule works like this, it should give everyone above 30 +0, under 30 +1, under 20 +2, under 10 +3.
Only using Petards to kill someones original tc= 3 Points (Opinions?)
Nah, not necessary.
First to kill a villager= 2 Points (Opinions?)
Great!
Walls, only 2 layers allowed max (don't try to bend rules by connecting layers together )
One layer is enough.
4 for being double teamed is ok, but imo if you get double teamed and survive for say 5 mins, you should also be rewarded points..
Yes that would be good.
i can see the age1 minutemen already.
Lol, maybe StrategicJoel can get some points

"There must be some way out of here," said the joker to the thief
[TΣ]_Ha_Luke_331



"All murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets."
-Voltaire
"A good decision is based on knowledge and not on numbers. " - Plato

[This message has been edited by Ha_Luke (edited 05-12-2009 @ 09:36 AM).]

goodspeed2
Skirmisher
posted 05-12-09 12:47 PM EDT (US)     45 / 79       
just go before 30 mins knocking out a PR0-15=1p, pr16-25=4p, pr26-35=7p, pr36+=10p. after 30 mins, every knockout is 5p. simpler and sounds a lot fairer to me.
1-10, 11-20, 21-30, 31+ (your KO points will be based on which tier you take down)
-Knocking a Starting TC Sub- 7 mins= 10 points for your tier +/-2 for each tier difference
-Knocking Starting TC Sub-10 Mins = 8 Points for your tier +/-2 for each tier difference
-Knocking a Starting TC Sub-15 Mins = 4 Points for your tier +/-2 for each tier difference
No, no, no. It's only complicated and doesn't add anything fun. If you want to give the lower ranked players a bonus, only do it once. Give them a (small) bonus (like a handicap), not when you knock someone out or get a TC down.
i don't think you see the point of these rules. example: you get a 6 player FFA, 3 players are PR25+, the other 3 are below 20, one of them is level 10. now if every KO and TC KO gives the same amount of points, who do you think will be targeted first? the PR10 ofcourse... to protect lower ranked players we should reward more points depending on the PR of the player you knocked out. it makes sense too, since KO-ing a PR30 takes a lot more skill than KO-ing a PR10.

In a FFA everyone is equal ???? in an FFA a PR30 and a PR15 are equal?? and that's nice. So the only rule for PR I would add is this one:
The PR rule works like this, it should give everyone above 30 +0, under 30 +1, under 20 +2, under 10 +3.
Walls, only 2 layers allowed max (don't try to bend rules by connecting layers together )
One layer is enough.
petards or oprichniks can really be a pain if theres only 1 layer allowed. although i wouldn't mind. it could be fun to play without walls tbh, but if you're allowing walls, allowing only 1 layer won't make much difference when you're facing opri-like units. 2 layers might just give you enough time

but really, what's wrong with walls? why would you only allow 2 layers in the first place? what kind of nub would leave someone alone long enough to spam 10 layers of walls anyway? besides, building walls takes time and wood..

[This message has been edited by goodspeed2 (edited 05-12-2009 @ 12:54 PM).]

Bart331
Skirmisher
posted 05-12-09 01:44 PM EDT (US)     46 / 79       
but its frustrating if you wanna knockdown someone tc before 15 mins and first have to fight your way through 20 layer walls.
i don't think you see the point of these rules. example: you get a 6 player FFA, 3 players are PR25+, the other 3 are below 20, one of them is level 10. now if every KO and TC KO gives the same amount of points, who do you think will be targeted first? the PR10 ofcourse... to protect lower ranked players we should reward more points depending on the PR of the player you knocked out. it makes sense too, since KO-ing a PR30 takes a lot more skill than KO-ing a PR10.
About the pr rule, the ffa series are all about fun and less about skills, so it doesnt matter if someone is higher pr and knocks down a lower player, as long as every is having fun

And there are enough rules that make sure players without any skill can easily gather some points

A few starting bonus points for low pr players is enough.

SUNIL IS NUB!!!

Battle.net:Bart (227)
ESO:Bart331
goodspeed2
Skirmisher
posted 05-12-09 02:06 PM EDT (US)     47 / 79       
but its frustrating if you wanna knockdown someone tc before 15 mins and first have to fight your way through 20 layer walls.
it's impossible to gather enough wood in that time to get more than say ~3 layers of walls protecting your entire town, and if you go all out walls, you won't have any military and no eco...
i don't think you see the point of these rules. example: you get a 6 player FFA, 3 players are PR25+, the other 3 are below 20, one of them is level 10. now if every KO and TC KO gives the same amount of points, who do you think will be targeted first? the PR10 ofcourse... to protect lower ranked players we should reward more points depending on the PR of the player you knocked out. it makes sense too, since KO-ing a PR30 takes a lot more skill than KO-ing a PR10.
About the pr rule, the ffa series are all about fun and less about skills, so it doesnt matter if someone is higher pr and knocks down a lower player, as long as every is having fun
protecting low ranked players from an early knockout is all about making it more fun to them. how fun is it to be owned before you can even get any units out? the very point of these rules is to protect low ranked players, so that the game lasts longer for them and is more fun.

And there are enough rules that make sure players without any skill can easily gather some points
it's not about the points, it's about increasing their chances of survival.

[This message has been edited by goodspeed2 (edited 05-12-2009 @ 02:11 PM).]

Bastiaan
Skirmisher
posted 05-12-09 03:57 PM EDT (US)     48 / 79       
GS, in FFA you often get time enough to play as gay as you can - that can include massive wall spam.
goodspeed2
Skirmisher
posted 05-12-09 05:55 PM EDT (US)     49 / 79       
i'm not suggesting to take out the max 2 wall rule since that's obviously against popular demand, but it's not really necessary. all it'll do is give the russian an even bigger late game advantage.

my question is why would wall spamming make the game less fun? in late game the ebst eco wins, if you're behind 300 points it doesn't matter if you have 2 or 10 walls, and if you're ahead 300 points you can have 2 or 10 it won't make any difference. what's wrong with protecting your eco? it's not like 10 layers of walls will make you unstoppable. more like the opposite since you just invested 5000+ wood in that..

[This message has been edited by goodspeed2 (edited 05-12-2009 @ 06:01 PM).]

CrazyLunatic
Veteran Musketeer
posted 05-12-09 07:00 PM EDT (US)     50 / 79       
With bonus points based on PR regardless of how you play, i think 3 for under 10, 2 for under 20 and 1 for under 30, 0 for 30+ should work fine. IDK if you will even need additional points for the KO rule. And KO with KO i mean actually killing an opponent: Knocking down a tc shouldnt give points on PR, this is not so hard...

In the rules post i changed it a bit to put a new system for KO points. If you are <10 but take down another <10 IMO you shouldn't get extra points, only if you take someone higher down.
not too sure if you are, but i suggest using the majority of the rules from the old ffa tourney
that's where most of the rules came from
isnt 8 point a bit too much for knocking a tc of an even skilled person? There is an huge difference between knocking a tc and ko a player. Also if you can backstab one person it becomes quite easy to siege his tc.
ya i think i'll reduce the tc down points (IMO still keeping the <7 mins tc as 10 points though as that is quite hard vs someone around your level )

Killing first vill:
make it 1 point and it's a fun rule
k that sounds reasonable.
And unique civ means something else than german or french?
it means that nobody else in the game is using the same civ. IMO germany/france wont get too overused in this FFA since it will involve lots of colonial/fortress fighting before the french/german players can do a massive spam of gendarmes/dopples
I Think you should not give extra points to low rank players just for killing a TC.
ya i think i'll change this so that they only get bonus for KOing a player higher than them. This rule is mostly in place so that higher ranks won't just do some super fast grenadier/pike rushes against conscripts to get 10 points
1 post for the first to kill a villager could be fun , i can see the age1 minutemen already. fun rule imo.
lol... MM RUSH!!! hehe
i like the PR tier thing, implement it in the KO rule
ya ooops thought i did that. Will add asap
No, no, no. It's only complicated and doesn't add anything fun. If you want to give the lower ranked players a bonus, only do it once. Give them a (small) bonus (like a handicap), not when you knock someone out or get a TC down.
so you're suggesting just give them the starting points and then everything else equal? That sounds good, but more than giving lower players a bonus this is mainly to stop higher players from taking down lower ranks asap to get bonus tc down points (Notice that the lower ranks only get bonus points if they can take someone higher ranked then them down which IMO should be rewarded). However i am not opposed to just keeping it simple (because i'll have to look through recordigns+ assign points )
i don't think you see the point of these rules. example: you get a 6 player FFA, 3 players are PR25+, the other 3 are below 20, one of them is level 10. now if every KO and TC KO gives the same amount of points, who do you think will be targeted first? the PR10 ofcourse... to protect lower ranked players we should reward more points depending on the PR of the player you knocked out. it makes sense too, since KO-ing a PR30 takes a lot more skill than KO-ing a PR10.
ya that's exactly what i intended. Think about it as a protection rather than bonus for lower ranked players. It's highly unlikely that they'll get down a higher ranked players' tc without a double team that early.
petards or oprichniks can really be a pain if theres only 1 layer allowed. although i wouldn't mind. it could be fun to play without walls tbh, but if you're allowing walls, allowing only 1 layer won't make much difference when you're facing opri-like units. 2 layers might just give you enough time
but really, what's wrong with walls? why would you only allow 2 layers in the first place? what kind of nub would leave someone alone long enough to spam 10 layers of walls anyway? besides, building walls takes time and wood..
as bart said it's really annoying when people just start turtling like hell with a billion walls (also think about town dance w/ aztecs= 10000 hp walls lol :S)
About the pr rule, the ffa series are all about fun and less about skills, so it doesnt matter if someone is higher pr and knocks down a lower player, as long as every is having fun
well the problem is that lower ranks won't have fun if everyone quickly goes for them at the beginning just to get the tc down/KO points easily.
it's impossible to gather enough wood in that time to get more than say ~3 layers of walls protecting your entire town, and if you go all out walls, you won't have any military and no eco...
ya but it will still delay enough so that the person goes to attack someone else as they know they won't take your tc down in time
i'm not suggesting to take out the max 2 wall rule since that's obviously against popular demand, but it's not really necessary. all it'll do is give the russian an even bigger late game advantage.
therefore russians will be hunted down earlier
my question is why would wall spamming make the game less fun? in late game the ebst eco wins, if you're behind 300 points it doesn't matter if you have 2 or 10 walls, and if you're ahead 300 points you can have 2 or 10 it won't make any difference. what's wrong with protecting your eco? it's not like 10 layers of walls will make you unstoppable. more like the opposite since you just invested 5000+ wood in that..
it's really annoying, even though it obviously hurts eco it's soo boring to sit around breaking down walls for like 10 minutes (not to mention reviewing a recording where everyone is just bashing walls the whole time lol)


Thanks everyone for suggestions. I think we'll get a really nice FFA series going

QUACK
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