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Topic Subject:best civ in tad for 40 min treaty
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pikemenrule
Skirmisher
posted 08-08-11 11:33 PM EDT (US)         
Just wanted to get some opinions on what civs are best in 40 min treaty., 1v1 games.

My brother and I are having a "draft" of the civs. So far I have the Brtis and Otts. He has the French and Germans.

Of the remaining 4 civs. (ports, dutch, spain & russians) which two should I try to get?

Which of the four would be best to go against his french?

thanks
AuthorReplies:
Rienfleche
Skirmisher
posted 08-09-11 00:16 AM EDT (US)     1 / 33       
I will give you an overview of each civ:

Portuguese:
Meat Eco is really good, while gold eco should be moderate. Each age, they get a new Town Center. To use this civilization appropriately, you must constantly build settlers so you might need the "Medicine Shipment." Note: you need the Unique Church shipment for the meat gathering.
They get two Factories and get a good navy too, meaning they are good at fishing also. They also get the strongest walls.

Their military is very strong. For example, their musketeer is rivaled with the Redcoat for power. They also get an awesome Light Infantry called the Cassadore. Its ranged resistance is huge and can pack a punch to an enemy, but its hp is very low. They also get halberdiers also but you probably are not going to use them as much. They get Hussars and the best Dragoon, the Jinete. Instead of a falconet, they get organ guns which are somewhat better but have less hp.
Military Setup: Most common is (Dragoon, Cassadore/Musketeer, and Organ Gun w/ Mortars in back)

Dutch:
This civ is hard to use in the beginning. Settlers cost gold so you do not have to worry about losing meat. Most of the meat you use is spent on Banks. You can have up to 8 of them (Vanilla) and 10 in (TAD). They only have 54 settlers max so manage your eco well. Make sure to get the Unique Church Shipment and the Bank cards as well w/ factories or else your eco will not be functional at its peak. Placing your settlers: most people usually put all settlers on mills. Its your decision to distribute your settlers depending on what resources you want most. I recommend only using the Dutch near the ocean. With 50 extra pop space, you can use it to fish on whales. Also the infinite Privateer card comes in handy on water maps because their is no build limit for them. I lost to my brother one time because he had 50 of them in Ceylon.

Out of all the nations, the Dutch have the largest military of 150 pop. Their best units are their Halberdier, Skirmisher, and Ruyter. However being a gold using economy, you can afford to spend it on cannons. They can have up to 30 falconets max. Most people don't like this because it leaves them open to cavalry and could lag the game. Their Halberdiers are the best in the game and cause an opponent to feel great stress to fight them in large numbers. However it is not recommended to spam these because they train slower. You can also make them faster as well. Ruyters are the "Dragoon" for the Dutch, and cost only 1 pop. They are really spammable, but do not put them against Musketeers, you will be sorry.
Military Setup: Skirmisher, Ruyter, Cannons, Halberdiers (if necessary)

Spain:
Sadly Spain does not have one of the stronger ecos but its military is quite powerful. With having only two factories and a slow eco, its military causes its eco great stress if you spam too many units. Its eco above all is average but its military is above average. It is basically a meat dependent eco like the Portuguese, but because of the exp bonus it is mainly used for Fast Fortress strategies and rushing.In TAD they have the unit called the Missionary which increase your attack of your units by 50% if they are nearby.

The Spanish have many unique units at their disposal. For one they have the only Imperial Pikeman. Most people dont recommend using it because of its wood use and wood is scarce late game, but it is a good cav killer. It can also train fast with the Archaic Schools card. Next is the Rodelero, these guys are basically one of the best spammable units out there. These guys can get rid of Hussars easy. They also get Musketeers and Skirmishers.
The Spanish get 3 types of Cavalry; Hussars, Dragoons, and Lancers. Lancers are one of the best cavalry in the game. If upgraded right, it can do x4 against infantry and basically kill most infantry in 1-2 hits. With the Missionary bonus you can slay anything.

Russians:
This is the only other civ besides the Spanish that gets 1 factory in vanilla and get 2 in TAD They have a really good eco for one and a moderate army to boot. They are a meat dependent economy and a gold dependent economy, depending on what you are doing. They also can make their Musketeers build forts which is pretty cool.

The Russians have the fastest spawning infantry in the game in vanilla. However because of this, their infantry are slightly weaker than the normal. Their infantry also train in batches so they train even faster. They also get a card to increase their siege by 50%. The Russians get a light infantry unit called the Strelet. It is the CHEAPEST unit in the game only costing 37 meat and 10 wood. These guys are the most spammed in early games, later will be musketeers or halberdiers. Strelets are handy when it comes to slow heavy infantry like Halberdiers, so they can be a perfect counter to the Dutch in a way. They get grenadiers too called Parlovs, however it is not recommended to use them often.
Russians have 3 cav units, the Cossack, the Oprichnik, and the Tartar Loyalist. The Cossack is basically a 1 pop Hussar. Do not say they suck, they actually do more damage if you had two of them together. The Oprichnik is the best raider in the game. With siege attack over 160, they can go into a town with ease and get any of the settlers with its x3 bonus against them. Another good thing about them is that they have x3 against siege units too. So they can kill units like grenadiers and cannons without a sweat. The Tartar Loyalist is basically a Royal Guard cavalry archer. But remember that cavalry archers shoot 2x faster than gunpowder cavalry.

Against the French, the best civs would be the Portuguese and the Dutch. The Portuguese have the Jinete and the Musketeer to counter Gendarme Cuiraissers while the Dutch have a huge army and a lot of Ruyters and Halberdiers. But look out, most French turtle and make you waste your resources try to get in their base. So make sure to build mortars and protect them well.

Sorry if I wrote too much...I hope this helps.

[This message has been edited by Rienfleche (edited 08-09-2011 @ 00:22 AM).]

GodofSquishy
Skirmisher
posted 08-09-11 05:14 AM EDT (US)     2 / 33       
Also I will try to give a corporal's veiw on this

For Economy Lategate ( 8 worst, 1best )

1 French ( Skirms Cuirs Hussar )
2 Germans ( Ulhans Doppelsoldners War Wagons and Skirms)
3 British ( Longbowmen, Redcoats and Hussars)
4 Portugese ( Musks Cassadores Goons and Organ Guns)
5 Russians ( Tartar Cav Archer, Ophriniks, Strelets, Cossacks)
6 Spanish ( Lancers, Rodlero, Unction Card )
7 Ottomans ( Jans, Abus, Great Bombard, Spahi Hussar )
8 Dutch ( Skirms Ruyters and Halbs )

Most Balanced Army

The Portugese have the most balanced army in my opinion for a number of reasons because they have alot of food costing units

Dragoon ( Jinete ) Musketeer ( Guerrio )
Cost 90F - 90 C Cost 75F - 25C

Cassador Hussar
Cost 85F - 35C Cost 120F - 80C

Also they have Unique Skirmishers ( Cassadors ) which are very powerful v HI ( Heavy Inf - Musks/Dopps/Samurai )

Their Musks are among one of the most powerful rivaling the Sepoy The British Redcoat and the Jannisary.

They have the strongest dragoons in the game and are the only civ that has royal guard dragoons ( save Dutch Carabineers ) They're very good versus all types of Melee cavalry.

The Hussar is the standard hack n slash cav type for all Europeans ( 6/8 Europeans get them the Russians / Germans get 1 population versions ) I'm saying the hussar because it fits nicely with the portugese economic playstyle of mass food producion.

Also they have brilliant light artillary the Organ Gun ( bit like a machine gun :P )

Row row row your boat
Gently down the stream
Belts off, trowsers down
Ain't life a scream!
ztejas
Skirmisher
posted 08-09-11 09:26 AM EDT (US)     3 / 33       
Squishy you are a lot better than a corporal. If you say that before your posts no one is going to listen to you. Start with, "I'm generally thought to be the greatest corporal of my generation. With that in mind..."

GodofSquishy: Did somebody say LANCERS?! O.o
GodofSquishy: Opris suck at veteren level for siege
StormComing
Skirmisher
posted 08-09-11 10:27 AM EDT (US)     4 / 33       
Mk
1. France best civ
2. Japan probably number 2
3. China Next!
4. Russia ftw

After that it depends on 1v1 or team....

1v1
5. Germany
6. Portuguese
7. British
8. India
9. Otto
10. Spain
Aztec, sioux, Iroquois and Dutch ranked 11-14, not good for 1v1's.

Team
5. Spain
6. Brits
7. Ports
8. Germany
9. Iroquois
10. India
11/12. Otto/Aztec
Dutch, and Sioux ranked somewhere below. not great civs at all.

Some games you find will be labeled "NO OP". In those games you wont be allowed to play France, russia, Japan, and sometimes CHina because they are too strong. OP = "Over powered".

As per your question, which of the 4 cis would best face his france, i personally would pick portuguese to fight him heads up, or i would choose russia to run around the map and penetrate his base for a lame win :P

cool idea with the draft thing, good luck!

ESO: StormComing/SoulSong
Rank: Brigadier
Activity: Retired (GG peace out)
http://www.youtube.com/user/StorminAOE3

[This message has been edited by StormComing (edited 08-09-2011 @ 10:29 AM).]

GodofSquishy
Skirmisher
posted 08-09-11 10:36 AM EDT (US)     5 / 33       
Erm... StormComing the heck?!

You're saying that Iro Aztec and Sioux are not good for 1v1?!
And you're saying that dutch is the worst civ in the game?!

Haha

Thanks ztejas

Row row row your boat
Gently down the stream
Belts off, trowsers down
Ain't life a scream!
StormComing
Skirmisher
posted 08-09-11 10:47 AM EDT (US)     6 / 33       
more or less... But i wouldnt say dutch is the WORST. In some circumstances they can be ok. i think dutch, sioux battle eachother for worst civ and it jsut depends on the team set up.

you disagree?

ESO: StormComing/SoulSong
Rank: Brigadier
Activity: Retired (GG peace out)
http://www.youtube.com/user/StorminAOE3

[This message has been edited by StormComing (edited 08-09-2011 @ 10:48 AM).]

GodofSquishy
Skirmisher
posted 08-09-11 10:54 AM EDT (US)     7 / 33       
Although their eco isnt the best they're still very nice civs

Iroquois, Sioux, Aztec are the best rushers

Dutch are a great civ and are one of my favourites with a very good FF and they are the sioux's anti christ

I disagree enitrely with what you say but i'll fight to the death for your right to say it - Voltaire

Row row row your boat
Gently down the stream
Belts off, trowsers down
Ain't life a scream!
StormComing
Skirmisher
posted 08-09-11 10:57 AM EDT (US)     8 / 33       
lmfao
do you fruiting read the thread starter's post? how about the thread title? :P
tis treaty discussion

ESO: StormComing/SoulSong
Rank: Brigadier
Activity: Retired (GG peace out)
http://www.youtube.com/user/StorminAOE3

[This message has been edited by StormComing (edited 08-09-2011 @ 10:57 AM).]

GodofSquishy
Skirmisher
posted 08-09-11 11:05 AM EDT (US)     9 / 33       
REgardless why are you saying Japanese?
Awful Economy specially you are so shrine dependant its unreal. ( you need livestock from allies and you cant build far away ) And 2/5 Units they actually make are counterable by skirmishers

Also on regards to ottomans and sioux a 3v3 team of Germans Ottomans and Sioux is impossible combination

Sioux - Rifle Rider / Axe Rider
Ottomans - Jans/Abus
Germans - Doppelsoldner/ Cannon / War Wagon

Row row row your boat
Gently down the stream
Belts off, trowsers down
Ain't life a scream!

[This message has been edited by GodofSquishy (edited 08-09-2011 @ 11:06 AM).]

StormComing
Skirmisher
posted 08-09-11 11:14 AM EDT (US)     10 / 33       
you're thinking with a sup mind
dats why
in treaty you are almost never combining your armies with your team mates. waaaay to hard and its just impossible.

Japan wins in 1v1 because their army is fruiting beaaast!
and eco doesnt matter casue japan will win so fast, and their army doesnt die as fast = eco lasting longer

ESO: StormComing/SoulSong
Rank: Brigadier
Activity: Retired (GG peace out)
http://www.youtube.com/user/StorminAOE3
GodofSquishy
Skirmisher
posted 08-09-11 11:22 AM EDT (US)     11 / 33       
All the more evidence that japan is OP.
But the japanese army is stopable. It is very stopable

The Japanese army is based on its infantry. Its cavalry is pathetic and its artillary is mediocre at best.

Inf
2/3 are considered HI
1/3 Is not used often lategame as its wood costing

The cav

Jap cav is awful.
Yasabume i never see being made.
Naginatas i see rarely but they are select at their job. Only anti skirmisher/ art.

Jap Artillary

Flame Arrows are ok i guess
Mortarus do the job but i see samurai doing the siege more with a daimyo helping.

Anyway most japs dont go for the normal army they just get loads of coin and go for the Red Seal Ship card for mass hatamoto

Row row row your boat
Gently down the stream
Belts off, trowsers down
Ain't life a scream!
StormComing
Skirmisher
posted 08-09-11 06:36 PM EDT (US)     12 / 33       
Its the players job to macro eco to allow for any unit to be made during the whole game, if you run out of wood and cant make yumi then you suck at being tr playa

jap mortars are 2nd only to the port mortors, and one of the main reasons japan kicks a$$. 46 range morts + OP ashi + great skirm + fricking daimyos + almost insti artillery = steamroller army. Not to mention Japans starting army is completely ridiculously huge

ESO: StormComing/SoulSong
Rank: Brigadier
Activity: Retired (GG peace out)
http://www.youtube.com/user/StorminAOE3
emzeeshady
Skirmisher
posted 08-09-11 07:23 PM EDT (US)     13 / 33       
Naginatas > Lancers

what do you think now Godofsquids

anyway i will give you advice that you don't have to be a speed reader to use.

Russia and Ports are the best left.

Nothing can really stop the French tbh so you are screwed man.


and why did u pick ottos. They just suck.
ztejas
Skirmisher
posted 08-09-11 07:53 PM EDT (US)     14 / 33       
French and Germans are the two best lol. I would redraft...

GodofSquishy: Did somebody say LANCERS?! O.o
GodofSquishy: Opris suck at veteren level for siege
pikemenrule
Skirmisher
posted 08-09-11 10:13 PM EDT (US)     15 / 33       
I found out too late about the Ottos.

Was told they were good.

So do most people think that the the Ports and Russ. are better than Dutch and Spain?

I could still take Japan, are they the best one left?

thanks
StormComing
Skirmisher
posted 08-09-11 11:04 PM EDT (US)     16 / 33       
YE epending how good he is you have a serious shot at beating him with japan.

ESO: StormComing/SoulSong
Rank: Brigadier
Activity: Retired (GG peace out)
http://www.youtube.com/user/StorminAOE3
pikemenrule
Skirmisher
posted 08-09-11 11:35 PM EDT (US)     17 / 33       
Storm, I have never played japan, are they very difficult to play and what cards would you recommend?

I will draft Japan based on your opinion, but I do not think my brother is even thinking about them so I could get them after Russ, Port, spain and Dutch are taken.


My goal is to get a well balanced group so I can match up well with anyone he picks for battle.

I think the brits will do well for any water map.

He picked the French 1st, then I picked the brits, he then went for the germans and I then took the otto (may not have been the best pick) not sure which one he will take next but will find out soon, he says he is close. I think he may pick the ports. I know for sure he will not pick japan, india or china. So I am safe with taking japan later.
emzeeshady
Skirmisher
posted 08-10-11 00:07 AM EDT (US)     18 / 33       
Knowing u and ur bros pr would help.

If he's a noob and all he gets are cuiraissers then be naps and just get samuri

if he's a decent player mixes volts and artillery with his cuirs then you simply can't beat his army

you can however pick Russia or japan and be very sneaky to attack him. As Russia run away from the battle with a few muskets build a fort and attack there.

As japan run your daimyo over to near his walls and attack there.

I would pick Russis over Japan but they are both good.
ztejas
Skirmisher
posted 08-10-11 01:08 AM EDT (US)     19 / 33       
I would go Spain for unctioned units. They stand a chance against France. Russia is no good in treaty, and Japs have a maaaaaajor cav disadvantage against France. If you are worried about France go Spain or Portuguese. If not, go.... Spain or Portuguese

GodofSquishy: Did somebody say LANCERS?! O.o
GodofSquishy: Opris suck at veteren level for siege
GodofSquishy
Skirmisher
posted 08-10-11 04:03 AM EDT (US)     20 / 33       
Finally I'm converting zjetas.

Lol?!?!
Naginatas > Lancers. For a colonel you're a tad nooby
Naginatas have a 1.5x Inf and 0.7xHI
Lancers have more HPs and have x3 v all inf.
(99% of the time you increase it to 4.)

As zjetas said unctioned spanish / portugese units are the greatest way to beat the french. Russians are an ok choice.

Japan i have no idea where you're comin from
Yasabume are awful.

Personally. I would pick portugal from the following reasons.

1 - Good Goons
2 Royal Musks
3 UU Skirmishers
4 Good Artillary ( Best Mortars and Amazing Organ Guns )

Ottomans are a not good choice. They have very limited anti cavalry ( Only Jans and Horse Archers )

Belive it or not economy wise Dutch can cause ALOT of problems for france lategame.

Seeing as you're such a lamer fanboy ( russians french japs ) Can i just point out a good balanced french army of cuirs volgies and mortars can just out econ the japs :/ And if the frenchie takes the offensive against the jap he will easily outecon him. Same applies to the dutch and spanish. ( But spain are always meant to be on the offensive )

Row row row your boat
Gently down the stream
Belts off, trowsers down
Ain't life a scream!
pikemenrule
Skirmisher
posted 08-10-11 12:08 PM EDT (US)     21 / 33       
It seems what everyone is saying is that the French is by FAR the best civ.
If that is true than I should just tell my brother that no one can play the French. Would that be fair?

I like a challenge but from what everyone is saying the French is almost impossible to beat.

If my brother and I agree that no one can pick the French, what would be the best overall 4 civs for 40 min treaty in tad.

He is a very good player and I need all the help I can get.

I want to beat him very badly!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One more than are the Ottos that bad and what is the best match up for them?

thanks

[This message has been edited by pikemenrule (edited 08-10-2011 @ 12:33 PM).]

ztejas
Skirmisher
posted 08-10-11 12:33 PM EDT (US)     22 / 33       
French are only OP in treaty. Best 4 treaty excluding French are

1. Spanish
2. Germans

3. Whatever the hell you want...

GodofSquishy: Did somebody say LANCERS?! O.o
GodofSquishy: Opris suck at veteren level for siege
socrstar
Skirmisher
posted 08-13-11 12:18 PM EDT (US)     23 / 33       
Best otto counter is Spain.

I would say Germans are best because of 99 vils + SW + potential boats during the treaty, then you kill down to 99 vils~ and fight.

Dutch are better at a 15-20 minute treaty as opposed to long ones.

ESO: socrstar
Comprehensive Turtling Guide
Semi NVR for 'Nilla
Rise of Amsterdam v2: A guide to the Dutch
"Wanna see my victory dance?" "Sure." "Hold on I need to get naked first." "Whoaa"
CrazyLunatic
Veteran Musketeer
posted 08-13-11 01:17 PM EDT (US)     24 / 33       
Spain is not really that great in treaty

Japan, china, Russia France all better for sure

QUACK
GodofSquishy
Skirmisher
posted 08-13-11 01:54 PM EDT (US)     25 / 33       
Spain are ok in treaty because of its nice army and unction.
They're not ok. Not Good Not Bad. Just fine

If its a water map best civ is Portugese
I would completly disagree that Japan is anywhere worth recoginsion for a good civ in treaty. Their Economy in only better than Dutch and Sioux. They have AWFUL cavalry but they do have epic infantry units / decent artillary and daimysos aswell as the heck annoying wonders.

The French really bank on their Cuirs as far as i see it the only european civs in TAD that have outstanding anti cav are
Dutch ( Ruyter Spam )
Spanish ( Unction )
Germans ( War Wagons / Dopps )
Russians ( Royal Guard Cavalry Archers )
But still if your bro isnt a lamer and is clever he wont soly rely on cuirs as he will be wasting resources as your anti cav army will just defeat the cuirs.

Row row row your boat
Gently down the stream
Belts off, trowsers down
Ain't life a scream!
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