You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Strategy Central

Hop to:    
loginhomeregisterhelprules
Bottom
Topic Subject: The Bank Spank
« Previous Page  1 2 3 4  Next Page »
posted 03-09-06 02:51 AM EDT (US)   
New version: Bank Spank 2.0

Dutch have a hard time these days with FF being the norm. It seems impossible to compete. Despair no more, Dutch's answer to the FF is in this very post. If you want to actually look forward to playing your next Spanish opponent, read on.

Summary: This is a FF-turtle with skirms, banks, booming, and a 150 pop military. In other words, it has ALL THE GOODS!

It's strengths:
* Kick-ass economy
* Good colonial defense
* A fast Age III time
* Good use of banks
* Beats any attack before 10 min (with proper scouting of course)

It's weaknesses:
* Britain (they will out-boom you every time)
* Grenadiers


Cards needed:
3 vils
Colonial Militia
1000G
9 skirms
4 towers
1000W
Religous Freedom


Very Helpful Cards:
1000F
10 Ruyters
9 Halbs
Mercenaries
-40% inf/cav train time
Advanced Arsenal


******** THE STRAT *********

Age I:
* Build 10 vils from the TC
First 4 vils go to wood for a wall. As this wood comes in, build a wall around your entire base.
* Play 3 vil card
20 vils total. Yes that does work, read on.

Age II 5:50 -- 200G + 1 Tower
During age-up, put 11 vils on food, 9 on gold.
At this point you will know whether they are rushing. If and only if they are, send Colonial Militia and keep 400f/400g handy for the minutemen.
* Get the tower up
* Build a house
* Collect the 2 gold crates
You should end up with just enough food/gold by 6:50. Don't get any more food than you need.

Age III 7:20 -- Exiled Prince
During age-up, put 15 vils on wood, 5 vils on gold
* Play 1000 gold card
* Play 9 skirm card
* Build a house
* Build an artillery range and train 2 culverins
* Play 4 Towers

By 9:45 you will have:
* walls surrounding your base
* 9 skirms
* 2 culverins
* ~25 vils

This is where things start getting fun. If he attacks, rejoice. You have the ideal defenses and will wipe out anything, yes ANYTHING he could possibly throw at you this early. If he booms instead, don't worry, you're about to build 6 banks.

Bank Spank
Move vils so you have 15 on food 10 on wood.
* Play 1000W card
* Build 4 banks
* Build a church
* Play Religious Freedom card
* Reserach Coffee Trade
* Use the market to buy wood if you are low. It's worth it, since you will get your banks up sooner.
* Build 2 banks
* Build a market and research gang saws + great coat.
* The rest is up to you! Just know that you're gonna need 15 houses within 5 min because that's how fast the resources are going to come in.


******** NOTES *********

6 banks?!?!
Ideally, you will be left alone and will have nothing to make but those 6 banks. However, if it looks as though your opponent is ramping up for an attack soon, you will have to hold off on the banks, build a barraks instead and make more skirms/culvs. This is something you have to watch for yourself and judge accurately. If you make too many banks, you could end up with a gaping hole in your wall. If you make too much military, it's very easy for the opponent to out-boom you.

In my experience, about half of my opponents see the skirms and culverins, and assume that there will be even more skirms/culverins when they come back. This "implied army" is what will allow you boom.

If you're up against a boom civ (Ports, French, Dutch), you can be almost certain that they will boom vs your turtle, so you must make those banks your top priority. This is especially true of Ports, who won't have good age-III seige. You can match the port boom only if you get those banks up asap, so it's a matter of win/lose there. Ideally you will have all 6 banks up by 15 min.

Once your banks are up, you have created a monsterous eco and can spam any unit you want. Your goal then is to get to 200 pop. That's not to say you shouldn't attack before then, since some situations will call for that. I like to make culv/falc/skirm/pike. Some prefer Ruyter/Falc. Do whatever suits you and best counters the enemy. Once you have an army that you think will beat theirs, move on out!

About the wall:
When constructing your wall, keep in mind 3 things: food, wood, and space. Don't worry about gold. Your first gold mine is 2000g, which is enough to get you to fortress. The 1000g card will get you culvs and 2 vils. The banks will take it from there.
Food: Try to get 2 herds into your walls. Look for sheep/lamas/cows. You need at least 2500F within your walls by the time they are up. Berries are 1000F each so if you have 3 of those, you're fine.
Wood: If you can't enclose a bunch of trees with your walls, that's ok. You can build the walls so that trees are just outside your base and your vils are only a few steps from safety.
Space: If you make the wall too big, you will have too much area to defend. If it's too small, you will be forced to build outside of it. There are some buildings that can go outside the wall safely. These are banks, the market, and the church (who attacks a church?). Everything else should go inside, so make sure you have room.

Misc notes:
Shipped towers give you 35 XP each when built.
6 banks are 840 XP.
A smart opponent will always attack your weakest side, so careful with those towers.
Your opponent will out-boom you if you let him take the water, so after banks are up make this your next economic priority. The 3 fluyt card helps.
Raiding is always a good thing. Don't let the above build order prevent you from a timely vil massacre.

Acknowledgments: ultimitsu contributed 2 great ideas to this strat. Tons of others here have shared much wisdom that has helped me.

Quotes:
"I've never seen that before!" ~ treebeardIII
"You did me a surprise." ~ a 2k player
"It'd hurt pretty bad to get spanked by a bank" ~EmpireDoja

Screenshot

Recorded Game


agecommunity quote of the month Ok i have payed for this game for al my moneythat i get in a month so when i go online isee these 9 year old kids that beat me that have played for 2 weeks and i have played since release of vanilla so im pretty pissed of that es dosent want to do anything about the balance of the game.

[This message has been edited by jaafit (edited 05-11-2006 @ 03:39 AM).]

Replies:
posted 03-12-06 10:30 PM EDT (US)     26 / 85  

Quote:

this wouldnt work at the times u state.


You obviously didn't watch the recorded game

Age II: 6:00
Age III: 7:10
9 skirms/2 culvs: 9:42
6 banks: 14:51


agecommunity quote of the month Ok i have payed for this game for al my moneythat i get in a month so when i go online isee these 9 year old kids that beat me that have played for 2 weeks and i have played since release of vanilla so im pretty pissed of that es dosent want to do anything about the balance of the game.

[This message has been edited by jaafit (edited 03-13-2006 @ 00:06 AM).]

posted 03-12-06 10:54 PM EDT (US)     27 / 85  
Link is broken

[EEX] Nullpointer
Canadian Gamer
posted 03-13-06 00:06 AM EDT (US)     28 / 85  
Fixed

agecommunity quote of the month Ok i have payed for this game for al my moneythat i get in a month so when i go online isee these 9 year old kids that beat me that have played for 2 weeks and i have played since release of vanilla so im pretty pissed of that es dosent want to do anything about the balance of the game.
posted 03-14-06 00:10 AM EDT (US)     29 / 85  
sounds awesome. cant wait to try and make this better
posted 03-14-06 01:10 AM EDT (US)     30 / 85  
The hardest thing about this start is approximating how large you will need your walls. I played vs someone who tried to turtle with walls but my grenadiers were in range of the tc! You must also try not to let them establish total map control and outboom you with res and tp's/water (can be done by any civ who knows how). Else this is a great dutch strat

If all things are relative then cannibalism is just a matter of taste...
My AoE3 Stats
posted 03-14-06 10:38 AM EDT (US)     31 / 85  
Listed in my 'Favourites' section =)
posted 03-14-06 01:05 PM EDT (US)     32 / 85  
I'm really not sure about this strat...

I normally go 3 banks 23 villies and ff in about 7:30. Then i send some ruyters and get skirms and culverins and later a fort. After that just boom and scout his army and get counters, lots and lots of them, when ur upp in 200 pop ur good to go...

this works vs 2k+ players with some good micro...

The wall is just a waste of resources if u ask me and the key to win with dutch is getting 4 banks ASAP, before aging to fortress if u find some wood in tresures and stuff. Then u have a big eco advantage for about 10-15 minutes, use those minutes to a millitary advantage aswell...

ESO2: Revenger

posted 03-14-06 04:13 PM EDT (US)     33 / 85  
TSC_Revenger can you elaborate on your 3 banks 7 30 fortress time? this sounds like it would be good.

but i dont think walls are a waste of resources because theyre so cheap and they easily keep cavalry raiders and early small armies at bay.

posted 03-14-06 04:27 PM EDT (US)     34 / 85  
If 3 banks and 7:30 fortress were possible, dutch would be called OP. I have trouble with doing 2 banks and sub 8 minute fortress, let alone 3... But, if you have proof, I would be very interested to see it.

Counter the attack, then Counter Attack!!!
posted 03-14-06 09:57 PM EDT (US)     35 / 85  
Its garbage.

Unless you have patagonia, or new england, or MAYBE bayou, never ever ever ever ever wall. EVER.

Your colonial time is unnnecesarily high and just plain stupid for that matter. Your 9:42 army is pathetic, as you know what I"m gonna do? I will have 24 pikes and 6 lancer and 15 skirm in your base before 8:30, and a wall will be down in seconds just FYI.

I'm not trying to be some kind of jackass to you, but your strat won't work, I dont play dutch so I dont know a good one. But what is ideal would be like 17 ruyters, 9 skirms and 2 falconets at 9 min, thats easily possible and better than what your doing.

Sorry dude, but it just won't work.


"Dutch are OP!"
"Iriquois are OP!"
"Stophon is OP!"

tEk Clan #1 US Clan
posted 03-14-06 10:03 PM EDT (US)     36 / 85  

Quote:

I will have 24 pikes and 6 lancer and 15 skirm in your base before 8:30


Show me.

agecommunity quote of the month Ok i have payed for this game for al my moneythat i get in a month so when i go online isee these 9 year old kids that beat me that have played for 2 weeks and i have played since release of vanilla so im pretty pissed of that es dosent want to do anything about the balance of the game.
posted 03-14-06 10:15 PM EDT (US)     37 / 85  
Why do you wall in Bayou(im not being sarcastic i just wanna know cuz i always found it useless)
posted 03-15-06 08:03 AM EDT (US)     38 / 85  
Easy, 7 min FF with 1 tp and a fwd outpost with rax, by 8:30 I can have 3 rounds of skirms from my rax and 2 shipments, and 10 pikes from aging (the 2 shipments are 14 pikes and 6 lancer). That shipments come in at 8:20 so I could hit you then with that (since I'm fwd quick attack) and then 5 skirms could catch up.

"Dutch are OP!"
"Iriquois are OP!"
"Stophon is OP!"

tEk Clan #1 US Clan
posted 03-15-06 10:49 AM EDT (US)     39 / 85  
@justiw:

I can have 4 banks sub 8 min if I wanna, but then only with 19-20 villies...

@Trentasaurus:

The 4 banks one:

Send either two or three villies to goldmine at start, depends on starting crates (3 or 4).

Of the rest: keep one picking crates and rest on food.

When having 10 villies and 2 training, send all on food.

First card 300 wood.

Age up with 400 wood.

Send 1 villager to get those 300 wood crates when arriving and 1 or 2 villies on gold, rest on food.

Build 1 bank as soon as you can (make sure you have 50 extra wood either from tresures or by collecting to get 350)

When getting to colonial age (4:15-4:20) get the 400 wood from aging and send 700 wood as the second card. Train villagers (of course!)

Keep 3 villagers spamming banks which give you a ton of xp...

3:rd shipment: send 700 food

Put as many villagers as needed on goldmine to get 1000 gold ASAP (4 banks is a lot of miners too, keep in mind), rest on food...

Age up as soon as possible with the fast age up one.

You can do this sub 8 min so 2 banks aint impossible lol. I could give you a rec if I knew how to upload :P

However, I've started sending 3 villagers instead of 300 wood as my first card just so I dont need to waste a lot of time macroing, even if its very funny Then I only have 3 banks but 30 sec faster fortress time - 7:30 ...

Whisper me online and I will gladly show any interested Dutch players how to do this. I find it to be the best way to play dutch, besides pike/grenadier rushing on Carolina, but thats another thing. :P

ps. after klicking age to fortress put all goldminers and all but 4-5 food gatherers on wood to get artillery foundry, market, houses and rax or stable... the rest is sorta shifting in terms of playstyle.


ESO 2 Nick : Revenger

[This message has been edited by TSC_Revenger (edited 03-15-2006 @ 11:08 AM).]

posted 03-15-06 11:14 AM EDT (US)     40 / 85  
"I will have 24 pikes and 6 lancer and 15 skirm in your base before 8:30, and a wall will be down in seconds just FYI."

Do you have a rec of this? It's not that I don't believe you or anything, but it's so easy to exaggerate on times etc.

posted 03-15-06 11:28 AM EDT (US)     41 / 85  
Well I can get that sized force by 9 minutes without much difficulty so I'm sure stophon can do better.

ESO : Pcfreak8
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is." -Jan L. A. van de Snepscheu
A pessimist is usually right and never disappointed.
Any history buff knows that nothing stops a cannon like a good uppercut. - BeatnikJoe
posted 03-15-06 11:42 AM EDT (US)     42 / 85  
Revengers strat is way better. Though I would get your market up faster. I find with the Dutch its best to be able to buy whatever resource you may need at any time. Banks give a lot of xp so putting 2 up early helps pay itself off a little faster. I never have any villager shipments in my decks. Maybe if we got 5 vill card.

Alcohol, the cause and solution to all of lifes problems

Homer J

posted 03-15-06 12:14 PM EDT (US)     43 / 85  
It's not only 2 banks, it's 4. One of the end statements was ment to someone who said he could hardly get 2 banks up before aging to fortress under 8 min...
posted 03-15-06 12:52 PM EDT (US)     44 / 85  
I see, I always 'wasted' wood on a rax in age 2 trying to be too careful. That pushed my fortress time back, and limited me to 2 banks. I'll give this a shot. It seems like that FF is better than even spain/germany because your economy is much better with 3-4 banks and 19-21 ish villagers, and it only requires 2 shipments. The problem might be getting a military building up in time to capitalize on it. Of course you could easily do mercs without any military buildings if you want. I always hated when germans did that to me (and still won easily).

Counter the attack, then Counter Attack!!!

[This message has been edited by justiw (edited 03-15-2006 @ 12:53 PM).]

posted 03-15-06 03:05 PM EDT (US)     45 / 85  

Quote:

Unless you have patagonia, or new england, or MAYBE bayou, never ever ever ever ever wall. EVER.

i do not understand this, its not like wall cost a tone or take ages to build, you may say it dont perfer wall, but avoiding it like a plague is really weird.


Quote:

Your colonial time is unnnecesarily high and just plain stupid for that matter.

Why? current trend of russian is 5:50~5:53 colonial time, it provides a much stronger fortress eco. i understand it is not how you would play french or german or spanish, but civs with slower start is different.

Quote:

Your 9:42 army is pathetic, as you know what I"m gonna do? I will have 24 pikes and 6 lancer and 15 skirm in your base before 8:30, and a wall will be down in seconds just FYI.

that BO was intented for falc orientated FF-rush, against this particular spansih strat. he could send 4 towers first, then 9 skirms, then make falcs instead of cuvlerin. that would easily beat what youy listed.


Quote:

But what is ideal would be like 17 ruyters, 9 skirms and 2 falconets at 9 min, thats easily possible and better than what your doing.

shipping and making 17 ruyters is pointless if opp doesnt go heavy on cavalry and doesnt go falcs. ruyters are weaker compared to most gunpowder infantry. also considering everyone is going falcs nowadays, going falcs as dutch themselves is risky, since winning 2 V 2 falc war generally depends on luck, but 2 culv vs 2 falc is a sure win.


there are other dutch strats that would suit other situations better, but this strat is about putting up a decent defense first, then go hard on banks.

other strats that go harder on banks early dont get a good return early enough, often die before banks advantage kicks in.

this is a bit like a lot brit players makes the mistake of thinking as brit you have a manor boom in colonial, and that is what kills them.

posted 03-15-06 04:18 PM EDT (US)     46 / 85  
Hi. I am Ecto5 and am writting a walkthrough for Age of Empires 3. I was wondering, jaafit, if I could use your strategy in my walkthrough. I would, of couse, give all the credit to you and include the address where one can find its original location (being this exact forum).

If you would allow me too use it, I should know quickly for my walkthroug becomes publisized this Saturday. When it is publisized, you can find it at Neoseeker.com, Gamefaqs.com, GameReplays.org, and this site as well.

You can contact me at Apollos.heat@gmail.com. Thank you for your time.

[This message has been edited by Ecto5 (edited 03-15-2006 @ 04:19 PM).]

posted 03-15-06 04:48 PM EDT (US)     47 / 85  

Quote:

Why? current trend of russian is 5:50~5:53 colonial time, it provides a much stronger fortress eco. i understand it is not how you would play french or german or spanish, but civs with slower start is different.

No, wrong. The fastest you could be to t3 off that would be
around 8:30 (you'd be dead by then) or if you went exiled prince lost a bunch of valuable free troops and put yourself in a bad position and soon-to-lose.

Quote:

that BO was intented for falc orientated FF-rush, against this particular spansih strat. he could send 4 towers first, then 9 skirms, then make falcs instead of cuvlerin. that would easily beat what youy listed.


Why would he want 4 towers? They die like flies to pikeman and since I would hit you with my 10 pikes from aging I would probably catch them while they are being build. Also you still have nothing on my awsome 6 lancer, and if I felt especially mean I could just ship 4 lancers instead of 14 pikes (or 5 hussars) or even better yet I could make stable instead of a rax and make lancers. It actually doesn't matter which one I choose, you'll still be dead by that time.


Quote:

ng and making 17 ruyters is pointless if opp doesnt go heavy on cavalry and doesnt go falcs. ruyters are weaker compared to most gunpowder infantry. also considering everyone is going falcs nowadays, going falcs as dutch themselves is risky, since winning 2 V 2 falc war generally depends on luck, but 2 culv vs 2 falc is a sure win.

2v2 falconet war is about micro, not luck, but luck would be something good to blame your bad micro on. Maybe you only need 7-10 ruyters, but yous till need some for inedible lancers vs spain.


Maybe at a lower level this works, but it doesn't at higher levels. Maybe thsi is the reason your still under 1800, maybe. If you ahvent noticed the reason falconets are almost dead is because of the culv boost and how easily they die to culvs. Thats why when I play spain the only falcs I ever make (up until 15 min+ at least) is the shipped ones.

Also lets look at the army of yours, your 4 outposts get shipped, 2 of them get destroyed whiel being built and the other 2 get destroyed when the pikes hit. My lancers destroy your falconets then come pick on your skirmies. My skirm are now giving you idle vils while my 24 pikes are in cover mode on your tc. I'm shipping 1000 wood and getting 2-3 tcs up while pumping skirms and maybe throwing up a stable soon. You resign about now.


"Dutch are OP!"
"Iriquois are OP!"
"Stophon is OP!"

tEk Clan #1 US Clan
posted 03-15-06 05:17 PM EDT (US)     48 / 85  

Quote:

No, wrong. The fastest you could be to t3 off that would be
around 8:30 (you'd be dead by then)

with russian, on 20 vils build hti age2 at 5:53, i can get 7:30~7:50 without exile prince and 500 food. i dont see why dutch cant get that close to that.


Quote:

or if you went exiled prince lost a bunch of valuable free troops and put yourself in a bad position and soon-to-lose

dutch dont get good age3 bonus like 7 skirms, thats why most dutch player go with exile prince, i myself would go with 6 halbs, but others choose not to because they rather have culverin 1 minute faster.

Quote:

Why would he want 4 towers? They die like flies to pikeman and since I would hit you with my 10 pikes from aging I would probably catch them while they are being build. Also you still have nothing on my awsome 6 lancer, and if I felt especially mean I could just ship 4 lancers instead of 14 pikes (or 5 hussars) or even better yet I could make stable instead of a rax and make lancers. It actually doesn't matter which one I choose, you'll still be dead by that time.

because 4 towers gives 140 combines XP, and they get a good bonus against lancers.

you pikes die fast to his skirms too.

this kind arguement goes both ways.

Quote:

2v2 falconet war is about micro, not luck,

whats there to micro with 2 v 2 falc? everyone knows to focus fire on the other person's falc, the one that gets the first shot will kill 1 falc and he will win, considering falcs on both side are equal range and that is a very very low level of micro, i would call it luck.

ADDED IN EDIT:

Quote:

Also lets look at the army of yours, your 4 outposts get shipped, 2 of them get destroyed whiel being built and the other 2 get destroyed when the pikes hit. My lancers destroy your falconets then come pick on your skirmies. My skirm are now giving you idle vils while my 24 pikes are in cover mode on your tc. I'm shipping 1000 wood and getting 2-3 tcs up while pumping skirms and maybe throwing up a stable soon. You resign about now.

you forgot he had walls

[This message has been edited by ultimitsu (edited 03-15-2006 @ 05:29 PM).]

posted 03-15-06 05:25 PM EDT (US)     49 / 85  
Stophon, that fight just comes down to who micros the best. Both armies are capable of winning, but it will always be a close fight. Don't forget to add in the minutemen that the dutch will train. I know they sound stupid, but they are just enough to turn the tide of that battle.

Sure, if you send your pikes in right away you will kill 2 towers before they finish building. You will also lose several of them to minutemen and anything else that was shipped/trained. What if there is a section of wall blocking your path? You might not get to kill any of those towers.

Here are the options that the dutch player can take before 8:30, assuming he will always age up with exiled prince, and get 2 shipments in fortress:

1. Ship 10 ruyters, ship 9 skirmishers, train 10 skirmishers, train 6 minutemen (will lose to falcs)

2. Ship 10 ruyters, ship 2 falconets, train 10 skirmishers, train 6 minutemen (probably the best option)

3. Ship 4 towers, ship 10 ruyters, train 10 skirmishers, train 6 minutemen (good if the towers are built in time)

4. Ship 4 towers, ship 10 ruyters, train 2 falconets, train 6 minutemen (good if the towers are built in time)

Any of these options has the ability to beat your army, it just comes down to micro.


Counter the attack, then Counter Attack!!!
posted 03-15-06 06:35 PM EDT (US)     50 / 85  
I know from dealing with people that you guys wont understand, all I can say is that it won't work,a nd your just handicapping yourself by choosing a strat like this.

Anyway your changing the strategy jaffit, according to the guy your'll be getting 2 culvs, also keep in mind that if he doesn't mkae culvs I can ship 2 falconets

It won't be close, at all.


"Dutch are OP!"
"Iriquois are OP!"
"Stophon is OP!"

tEk Clan #1 US Clan
« Previous Page  1 2 3 4  Next Page »
Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » Strategy Central » The Bank Spank
Top
You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register
Hop to:    
Age of Empires III Heaven | HeavenGames