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Topic Subject: French Grenadier FF
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posted 06-01-06 09:00 AM EDT (US)   

Right this is my new French strategy I came up when looking over the French cards to see if I wanted to play them, Since I've been testing the strategy in single player and must say thanks to Flammifer for giving me some advice on how to improve the strategy, and Stophon4 and Mono Ager for helping me with the strategy in the thread.

The purpose of this strategy is to pump and ship powerful units to defeat the enemy army whilst using the French’s church card to get 12 veteran grenadiers for a mere 1500 food for siege along with 2 falconets for siege and defeating enemy armies.

Here are some example decks

The Build Order

- Send 2 coir des bours to hunt 1 to herd and the other 2 to collect only the food crates then all coir des bours go onto food
- Make 4 coir des bours and then ship 3 so you do not have to build a house yet
- age up with the 400 wood Politian and use it to build a trade post and housing
- While aging put a few coir des bours on gold to get 300 gold including the starting crates, then all coir des bours go to food
- queue 2 coir des bours to build in 2nd age
- send 700 gold
- Whilst aging to fortress age leave 10 villagers on food and put the rest on wood, use the wood they bring in to build a church and then just build as many houses as possible, as getting housed is a rather big problem with this strategy, avoiding being housed and ordering the right units it the key to this strategy
- then proceed to the fortress age, the Politian you use depends on the effect you want, you could do a really fast ff and try and catch the enemy off guard with your grenadiers or you could do the more defensive version (which this is the build order for) and then take your enemy out after you defend his attacks.
- While aging send the edict of Nantes card
- Send an Anti Cavalry Shipment to protect your skirmishers and Grenadiers, 10 pikes or 5 goons.
- After researching the two grenadier techs start producing coir des bours and put them on whatever resource is necessary
- about now your enemy will attack if its an ff but you have the advantage as its in your base so just defend well and your army should be well intact, make sure you keep your grenadiers alive as they are your siege power.
- You should attack no matter what your enemies’ strategy was as this attack should now demolish your enemy, but be cautious if his strategy was a fast industrial as he will be rather defensive
-When you Attack be sure to damage his eco as much as possible and when he has his eco protected kill his outposts if he has any, then go for military buildings and houses and then for the town centre, while doing all this use your scout and explorer effectively to make sure no villagers sneak out and if they do use your scout to follow them

One thing I will mention is that you should not fall into the trap of following a set build order every game a build order is really just a general guideline past early colonial as from there it could all change for example you get rushed, that is one of the reasons people loss to rushes easily they just follow their build order and their town centre goes down before the reach fort and they wonder why they lost. A prime example is in the first recording, I like the skirmisher unit so favoured sending a skirmisher card upon reaching fortress even though I knew German + no raiding = uhlan army and look what happens.

Here’s Two Recordings of my performing this strategy against the hard computer:

And a 3rd one taken from a quicksearch game

My Cuetech is 1782 overall and 1764 1 vs. 1 at this moment.

[This message has been edited by Destiny_Devil (edited 06-11-2006 @ 02:43 PM).]

posted 06-11-06 04:34 PM EDT (US)     126 / 161  
hm weird, I never played it all the way through I just saw that I was using french and he was using russian and then posted it, dunno whats up with it.
posted 06-11-06 05:03 PM EDT (US)     127 / 161  
It's a unique strat..but how is it going to beat an FF? They just get cavs.....or dragoons, or melee infantry. No Offence, but how is this going to work?

ESO: empirejoao3
"You know the world is going crazy when the best golfer in the world is black, the best rapper is white, and the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese" LOL!!!
posted 06-11-06 05:43 PM EDT (US)     128 / 161  
No offence but read through some of the posts before and you'll see how to beat cav. It works particularly well against an FF.

posted 06-11-06 05:53 PM EDT (US)     129 / 161  
im kinda agreeing w/ sarumon on the effectiveness of this strat. i think that a regualar ff from the spanish, germans, ports, or ottomans would give this strat a tough time. it is an interesting strat and a creative idea, but i just dont think it will be that effective

Eso: Otis_
PR: 32 / 1980 on cuetech
posted 06-11-06 06:05 PM EDT (US)     130 / 161  
Try it. It really does work.

posted 06-11-06 08:38 PM EDT (US)     131 / 161  
It isn't going to work on a 1850+ player. Anyone with a brain will just get heavy cavalry, and dragoons and own you. Yes, you do ship in goons urself, but they have goons and hand cav, so they'll win. The only way this'll work is if it cathces them completely by surprise.

P.S. I did do this succsessfully against a 1st Lietanant, but...then again he WAS a 1st Lietanant.

ESO: empirejoao3
"You know the world is going crazy when the best golfer in the world is black, the best rapper is white, and the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese" LOL!!!
posted 06-12-06 07:30 AM EDT (US)     132 / 161  
No, you're wrong. Experts do this too. I've done it against a 1950 (not expert but larger than 1850) before and its worked. Stophons done it befoer and it's worked. It works at high levels too.


[This message has been edited by MoNo Ager (edited 06-12-2006 @ 07:31 AM).]

posted 06-12-06 08:45 AM EDT (US)     133 / 161  
Only if it catches them completely by surprise. There is no way in heck this will work on a German. I dobut it would work on a Port, or Spain (cassadors own naders, and Lancers own too)

ESO: empirejoao3
"You know the world is going crazy when the best golfer in the world is black, the best rapper is white, and the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese" LOL!!!
posted 06-12-06 09:54 AM EDT (US)     134 / 161  
You mean naders own cassies. Against spain and germany you have to do an altered version of this where you build a TP at the very beginning which will delay the attack a bit but you can send off for the 10 pike shipment as soon as you reach fortress. 10pikes = 5lancer card. Same with germans however against germans 10 pikes > uhlans.

Listen, I'm getting tired of repeating myself, just quickly skim through the thread, and then if you have any other concerns tell me. Also try it before you say you doubt it'll work.

posted 06-12-06 10:44 AM EDT (US)     135 / 161  
let me just say:

stophon>> sauruman
Stophon>> timbo

and if stophon can use this effectivley and to quote him ' it almost never fails' so yes it does work at high levels.

posted 06-12-06 02:32 PM EDT (US)     136 / 161  
^^ Haha yes, simply put.

posted 06-12-06 02:40 PM EDT (US)     137 / 161  


It isn't going to work on a 1850+ player. Anyone with a brain will just get heavy cavalry, and dragoons and own you. Yes, you do ship in goons urself, but they have goons and hand cav, so they'll win. The only way this'll work is if it cathces them completely by surprise.

And who the hell will expect this? By the time he sees those grenadiers pounding his TC it'll be far too late. If you see it coming, you can beat it, the same with any strategy that isn't overpowered. That's a pretty big if though.

posted 06-12-06 02:48 PM EDT (US)     138 / 161  
The only way they can anticipate it is if they see your church.

You could just build your church in your base, but he's more likely to scout it. Or you can build it far back in at the edge of the map somewhere he's not likely to scout. It doesn't matter where you put it, the naders don't come out of the church.

PS destiny you need to upload your pics again.


[This message has been edited by MoNo Ager (edited 06-12-2006 @ 02:51 PM).]

posted 06-12-06 03:51 PM EDT (US)     139 / 161  
let me just say:

timbo > destiny_devil
timbo > mono

and destiny did u ever think that it is because stophon is such a good player he can use the strat to win. others that dont have as good of micro or as much experience depend on the strength of the strat which is why they will fail. so just saying stophon can do it so there doesnt really work, because players as good as stophon can do most strats effectively a few times.

against the spanish or germans, the nine minute attack is just too late. you may have have an anti cav shipment like 5 goons or 10 pikes, but out against germans they will already have jaegers out by 9 min. if u sent pikes, then your entire army is goin to get bumb/run to death. if you send 5 goons forward to kill the jeagers, then the free ulhans will come from behind and abuse the grens.

against the spanish, 5 goons or 10 pikes isnt enough to stop the spanish shipments. they could have 9 hussar and 9 lancers if they really wanted to (which would kill your army). or, the regular spanish armies take down the attack like their mercs or massed scrims and pikes.

Eso: Otis_
PR: 32 / 1980 on cuetech
posted 06-12-06 04:40 PM EDT (US)     140 / 161  
TOO_Saruman has seen the light and now loves the french nader rush

He posted on my grenadiers topic on GD saying sorry for insulting you :P

He used it on me and owned me, then we used it in 2v2 and we owned, then another

Product ID: Ossian Discontinued
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about this special edition of player...

Allthough cetans are darker, did you know that if you read the word 'cetan' as a dutch word, that you get the same sound as when reading 'satan' in english.-Furby Killer
posted 06-12-06 05:45 PM EDT (US)     141 / 161  
meh timbo you said yourself I could of won that game if I had good micro which obviously I don't

those stradiots annoyed me aswell I never expected mercs so quick xD

posted 06-12-06 06:06 PM EDT (US)     142 / 161  
Well, I had the chance to try this strat a few times and I must say that it is an awesome strat However (there is always a however) my experience has been that against a very good ff by spanish or strong play by otto you cannot win with this strat so I would advise using something else instead. I personally don't attempt this in 1 vs 1 when playing against spanish any more...other than that, awesome strat

PS: To those that say "well because stophon says it works, that means it works" I say - stophon can pwn most of us with any civ using any combo, so I don't think that using him as measure is the best idea...

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[This message has been edited by dejanh (edited 06-12-2006 @ 06:07 PM).]

posted 06-12-06 06:41 PM EDT (US)     143 / 161  
^^ Using stophon as an example is useful because you are implying that he can use it to win against people of his level of skill just as we can. The difference is Stophons level is expert and so that it is suggesting that if you play someone of equal skill it usually works, even at expert level.


timbo > destiny_devil
timbo > mono

So? Better people than you use this strat. Just because you say it doesn't work and your better than us isn't the end all. I attack at 8:30, not 9.

And I do however agree this strat is not as effective against Spanish or Germans as it is vs other people. I never said otherwise. I've only stated alternatives to help against them if you were faced up against a Spaniard or a German and just had to do this strat

It's awesome in 2vs2s. Me and a friend (british BWKIC) have been doing this and we have won 20 odd games and lost 2 or something, whilst playing people usually > than us in skill.

posted 06-13-06 06:02 AM EDT (US)     144 / 161  
mono your taking a risk attacking without anti cav as if the opponent knows what your doing he'll have cav and your basically screwed.
posted 06-13-06 07:44 AM EDT (US)     145 / 161  
No, bwkic, highlanders > cav :P

Edit: I have 2 recs of this bwkic and nader attack combo if you want to see them.


[This message has been edited by MoNo Ager (edited 06-13-2006 @ 07:46 AM).]

posted 06-13-06 12:05 PM EDT (US)     146 / 161  
posted 06-15-06 09:33 AM EDT (US)     147 / 161  
I often now build a TP early on and send the pike shipment with it and it has worked nearly every time.

I just hate it when they rush though Hate it so much.

posted 06-15-06 11:49 AM EDT (US)     148 / 161  
just stick it out in col a bit send xbow or cm and own the rush then go fort and finish it off.
posted 06-15-06 02:09 PM EDT (US)     149 / 161  
Easier said than done

posted 06-15-06 03:47 PM EDT (US)     150 / 161  
not if you do it right its not, I've aint lost to a rush yet using this including 1 from a major.
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