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Topic Subject: French Grenadier FF
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posted 06-01-06 09:00 AM EDT (US)   

Right this is my new French strategy I came up when looking over the French cards to see if I wanted to play them, Since I've been testing the strategy in single player and must say thanks to Flammifer for giving me some advice on how to improve the strategy, and Stophon4 and Mono Ager for helping me with the strategy in the thread.

The purpose of this strategy is to pump and ship powerful units to defeat the enemy army whilst using the French’s church card to get 12 veteran grenadiers for a mere 1500 food for siege along with 2 falconets for siege and defeating enemy armies.

Here are some example decks

The Build Order

- Send 2 coir des bours to hunt 1 to herd and the other 2 to collect only the food crates then all coir des bours go onto food
- Make 4 coir des bours and then ship 3 so you do not have to build a house yet
- age up with the 400 wood Politian and use it to build a trade post and housing
- While aging put a few coir des bours on gold to get 300 gold including the starting crates, then all coir des bours go to food
- queue 2 coir des bours to build in 2nd age
- send 700 gold
- Whilst aging to fortress age leave 10 villagers on food and put the rest on wood, use the wood they bring in to build a church and then just build as many houses as possible, as getting housed is a rather big problem with this strategy, avoiding being housed and ordering the right units it the key to this strategy
- then proceed to the fortress age, the Politian you use depends on the effect you want, you could do a really fast ff and try and catch the enemy off guard with your grenadiers or you could do the more defensive version (which this is the build order for) and then take your enemy out after you defend his attacks.
- While aging send the edict of Nantes card
- Send an Anti Cavalry Shipment to protect your skirmishers and Grenadiers, 10 pikes or 5 goons.
- After researching the two grenadier techs start producing coir des bours and put them on whatever resource is necessary
- about now your enemy will attack if its an ff but you have the advantage as its in your base so just defend well and your army should be well intact, make sure you keep your grenadiers alive as they are your siege power.
- You should attack no matter what your enemies’ strategy was as this attack should now demolish your enemy, but be cautious if his strategy was a fast industrial as he will be rather defensive
-When you Attack be sure to damage his eco as much as possible and when he has his eco protected kill his outposts if he has any, then go for military buildings and houses and then for the town centre, while doing all this use your scout and explorer effectively to make sure no villagers sneak out and if they do use your scout to follow them

One thing I will mention is that you should not fall into the trap of following a set build order every game a build order is really just a general guideline past early colonial as from there it could all change for example you get rushed, that is one of the reasons people loss to rushes easily they just follow their build order and their town centre goes down before the reach fort and they wonder why they lost. A prime example is in the first recording, I like the skirmisher unit so favoured sending a skirmisher card upon reaching fortress even though I knew German + no raiding = uhlan army and look what happens.

Here’s Two Recordings of my performing this strategy against the hard computer:

And a 3rd one taken from a quicksearch game

My Cuetech is 1782 overall and 1764 1 vs. 1 at this moment.

[This message has been edited by Destiny_Devil (edited 06-11-2006 @ 02:43 PM).]

posted 06-02-06 12:49 PM EDT (US)     26 / 161  
Well while your aging to 3, all your vills are on food, all 16 of them (16 * 1.25) So you get it pretty quickly

When I do this I usually get to F around 7:20-30 with a church up, and ready to send for the grens. It works particularly well against brits.

Edit: And the cav thing, my next card sent is usually 5 goons. Even if it doesn't completely finish them off, it leaves them a lot worse than you are. I did this today against an otto in a FFA and he was behind the rest of the game to everybody else.


[This message has been edited by MoNo Ager (edited 06-02-2006 @ 12:53 PM).]

posted 06-02-06 02:47 PM EDT (US)     27 / 161  
lol that game was fun today mono, I'm just glad I wasn't the otto .

anyway beatnik it might be good to incporporate the 5 goons card into this I think otherwise in a general deck 3 cuirs are your only anti cav. Also thanks for the link I'll edit the first post with 2 recs of me doing this against hard comp, the first rec of me against frederick the great will probably be the worst display of micro and macro ever lol but the 2nd one isn't so bad.

posted 06-02-06 11:26 PM EDT (US)     28 / 161  
Eh I cant find any old *working* recs of it, but I can see my old decks from recs and I see some of my old strats posted. Anyway here is what I would suggest to do now and what I did of early december (kinda funny to compare^^).

In december-

Age with 15 vils (french start with 6 coureur then )
3 vils - 700 gold - church tech
Advance with forward tower, place it near enemy
Be in enemy base by 8 min, tc down by 8:30, next shipment was 4 currasier (at the time...)

Most people at this time were germans who hit fortress around 8 minutes and just sent merc shipments, so it was tc down well-before first merc shipment. Damn skirms skilled it though, 4 hussar age up was essential.

Nowadyas recomend -
Advance with 15 still, slow but good eco is essential
Get BOTH market techs for hunting before t3ing
Advance with wood
Advance with tp, slow t3 is ok
WIth market techs and tp you should be able to have 10 pikes and grenaders about by a little before 9 minutes, then you can attack the enemy and hopefullly destroy their housing before they can get black riders out, vs non-german its simple, usually gg quick.

I would recomend doing it vs german because of 9 uhlans and black riders, vs other civs you can do this with great effect (grenaders beat cannons, cost to cost).

After this I would prlly ship in 1k wood and boom my @ss off while thier recovering or dying, also throwing up a stalbe around this time is a good idea, mass them OP cav. Once germans use their black rider shipment mass curraiser and skirms nonstop, and kill stables!

"Dutch are OP!"
"Iriquois are OP!"
"Stophon is OP!"

tEk Clan #1 US Clan
posted 06-03-06 06:10 AM EDT (US)     29 / 161  


lol that game was fun today mono


Stophon, here's a rec of you doing it with 5 CdB starting and aging up with 14. However you still had the 7 skirm age up, which doesn't really make that much of a difference to this strat from 6

And here is someone else performing your strat like the first version you said but with nowadays adjustments (about 30 sec faster but you age up with just 15 CdB rather than 16). id=105936


[This message has been edited by MoNo Ager (edited 06-03-2006 @ 06:14 AM).]

posted 06-03-06 08:35 AM EDT (US)     30 / 161  
Oh I know, that was my first try on it since early january when I switched to spain. I was looking for my old recs of me doing it

"Dutch are OP!"
"Iriquois are OP!"
"Stophon is OP!"

tEk Clan #1 US Clan
posted 06-03-06 08:52 AM EDT (US)     31 / 161  
posted 06-03-06 10:55 AM EDT (US)     32 / 161  
No, you have to wait for your 10 pike shipment if you dont want to get owned anyway.

9 uhlan

"Dutch are OP!"
"Iriquois are OP!"
"Stophon is OP!"

tEk Clan #1 US Clan
posted 06-03-06 10:59 AM EDT (US)     33 / 161  
posted 06-03-06 11:09 AM EDT (US)     34 / 161  
It's either 10 pikes or 5 goons stophon and I'd pick 5 goons. Pikes have more siege damage by far but goons are easier and better to micro.

posted 06-03-06 11:20 AM EDT (US)     35 / 161  
With 13 uhlans on you by 8:30ish I'd prefer to have a unit that doesn't let all my other untis die before it finally kills the uhlans.

"Dutch are OP!"
"Iriquois are OP!"
"Stophon is OP!"

tEk Clan #1 US Clan
posted 06-03-06 11:34 AM EDT (US)     36 / 161  

So are you suggesting that I shouldn't send off the 6 skirms and the naders at 8:30 but should wait for the extra shipment of 10 pikes and then send off the attack? Isn't that a bit of a ruined rush? Or do you mean do this just against Germans.

posted 06-03-06 12:21 PM EDT (US)     37 / 161  
posted 06-03-06 02:38 PM EDT (US)     38 / 161  
Making pikes = +250 wood, = impossible.

If you get a tp you can have it ALL out with a great eco by before 9 min. Vs portugal I supppose you should prlly go in earlier for a rush, same with vs brits, and vs basically all other civs that arne't gemran or spain (6 lancers...).

"Dutch are OP!"
"Iriquois are OP!"
"Stophon is OP!"

tEk Clan #1 US Clan
posted 06-03-06 03:01 PM EDT (US)     39 / 161  
touche, I reckon it may just work against dutch aswell if you can anti cav out before they get that ruyter shipment, as thats what they're bound to use once you attack them with nadiers.
posted 06-03-06 04:04 PM EDT (US)     40 / 161  
how much siege does these church grenadiers have?
posted 06-03-06 04:05 PM EDT (US)     41 / 161  
Not sure but it will be more than normal grenaders I expect because of their funny names they'll be stronger.
posted 06-03-06 04:18 PM EDT (US)     42 / 161  
Young Guard (Colonial) have 64 Seige and 19 area damage attack.

Middle Guard (Fortress) have 81 Seige and 24 area damage attack.

12 Middle Guard in Fortress certainly take down buildings very quickly, but need to be protected.

"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
posted 06-03-06 05:39 PM EDT (US)     43 / 161  
Wow this thread has a fair few posts already, wonder if it will get on the first page, somehow I doubt it.
posted 06-03-06 06:29 PM EDT (US)     44 / 161  


I expect because of their funny names they'll be stronger.



If you get a tp you can have it ALL out with a great eco by before 9 min.

How can you afford the wood for a tp, wait for a shipment to arrive, wait for the pikes to arrive AND make it out with a great eco by 9. I'm not saying its impossible, I'm asking how would you do it?

If you have an old rec handy or something that would be great.

Destiny at watching your rep, I do it much differently to you. I try to mimick as much as possible stophons one.


[This message has been edited by MoNo Ager (edited 06-04-2006 @ 05:24 AM).]

posted 06-03-06 06:53 PM EDT (US)     45 / 161  
Well you dont need to be fortress til 8:20ish, and you dont need the food til around 9 min.

So you can build at tp asap, advance with 400 wood, get both market techs, click up around 6:30 (I usually go ealier) and then you dont need that 1500 food til like 8:50, when the 10 magic pikes come out, member, you can get greanders fast and it DOES NOT need to be right after fortress.

"Dutch are OP!"
"Iriquois are OP!"
"Stophon is OP!"

tEk Clan #1 US Clan
posted 06-04-06 05:30 AM EDT (US)     46 / 161  
^Is that with 17 vills or 16 vills. By both market upgrades you been the 2 for hunting and the 2 for gold AND the 2/3 for wood? I suppose that would be very good for a boom. So you would recommend doing this slower better boom version of it only against Spanish and Germans but against other civs, do the earlier attack one?

posted 06-04-06 09:15 AM EDT (US)     47 / 161  
Stophon could you please watch the 2nd rec and show me how I may improve my perfoming of the strategy please .

p.s. Do you rekcon i should submit this to the strategy central?

posted 06-04-06 10:00 AM EDT (US)     48 / 161  
I will watch later (once I get my PC back).

But dont submit it to strategy central (at least not yet, needs to be refined more and tested more IMO, I think its just an idea for you right now).

Vs Germany and Spain, they have a shipment that will just stop it in its tracks and anihilate it, which then will put you in a very bad position.

I actually tried this recently and abeat a 2175ish with it, if I can find the rec I will post.

"Dutch are OP!"
"Iriquois are OP!"
"Stophon is OP!"

tEk Clan #1 US Clan
posted 06-04-06 10:15 AM EDT (US)     49 / 161  
Well Luckily I have the common sense of a choclate cake, but thats probably insulting choclate cakes so I couldn't figure out how to send it lol so I may aswell wait now and use something else to send it.
posted 06-04-06 11:09 AM EDT (US)     50 / 161  
I think you should have 1000w in your deck. It really helps to boom after the initial attack.

And maybe if you want to really refine it for strat central you should add what you should do definitely in different situations, for example against a Mayan rush :P (which I just lost to). Add how the BO would change against Span and Germ (using stophons example). Also add how the BO would differ slightly with different starting crates. For example you only put 2 CdB if you start with 100g from crates, if you start with 0g then you need to put 3.

EDIT: meh stophon is right. I just lost to a spanish Captain (I'm 2ndlt) because of the 5 lancer card The question is, does lancer counter pikemen better than pikemen counter lancer :P

Btw is the lancer bonus against HI as well as LI?

AND this is unrelated: I've noticed in muskets the cav bonus is only next to melee mode attack. Do muskets only get the bonus in melee mode?


[This message has been edited by MoNo Ager (edited 06-04-2006 @ 01:03 PM).]

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