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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » Strategy Central » An Ottoman Fast Fortress
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Topic Subject:An Ottoman Fast Fortress
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stevefoot09
Skirmisher
posted 07-19-06 07:11 PM EDT (US)         
I know what you're thinking. omg a otto ff? wtf is he thinkin? BUT!! How does 15 Janisaries and 2 falconets by 7:00-7:30 sound? I've tryed all of the church card ff's,(bwkic, quatrefage, kalmuck, and grenadier) but iv'e found this one is the fasest. NOT the strongest, but the fastest, and speed kills. I prefer faster but it depends on your playing style. Anyway, here is the shipment order.

Age 1:
3 villies

Age 2:
700 gold, Palace Intrigue(unquie church card)

Age 3:
2 faclonets

From here on it depends on your shipments, depending on how much damage u inflict on them. Here is the build order.


Age 1: 4 vills to nearest hunts, the rest on wood crates. Get your explorer to the nearest trading post ASAP. It is best to play on a map that you are familiar with. Try to get your explorer buildin a tp by 30 sec into the game. After crates are all gone, have one vill build a house. First shipment is 3 vills. work your explorer hard. Get a gold tresure if u didnt get a gold crate, other wise food or wood treasures are good too. Advance at 2:00-2:30 dependin on treasures. Use the politian that gives 200 gold and a tower. Keep all villies on food during age up.

Age 2: Send 700 gold ASAP. Gather 200 gold from age up and send forward tower as close as possible to the enemy town. As soon as u have 1200 food switch all settlers to wood. Gather the 700 gold with 4-5 villies and age up. Advance with 400 wood and galley politian. Send the unique church card and build a church. Get wood treasures with your explorer. 135 wood guarded by two outlaw rifleman is a good one.

Age 3: As soon as u age, start gathering the wood from age up, send 2 faclonets, and as soon as u have 1000 wood, send the 15 jans. Don't forget to switch the home city gather point to the tower!(It stinks, i've done it)use falconets to pound military units first, use jans as meat shield. After you have killed all if any of their units, start pounding the houses to prevent shipments like 6 skirms from age up. Then go for the town center. Kill his MM. After u killed his MM, go back to you town, get your idle villies back to work. and get that galley fishing if the map has water. With all of the wood u have still, build 2 tc's with your explorer. Gain map control. After killing houses, u should have a shipment now, send the fort to gain even more map. After 2 tc's are built, switch 10 or so vills to hunts and get settler upgrades. and boom yourself to victory!!


I haven't recorded any yet but i will. I'm not sure how to post recorded games so if someone could say that would be helpful. Plz offer any HELPFUL TIPS or consturctive criticism. Thank You.


{edit}

I hope this link works, not sure if it will, so plz say something if it isnt working. It is against a moderate comp. I'll get a couple recs against real players soon!

here it is:

http://aoe3.heavengames.com/downloads/showfile.php?fileid=763

[This message has been edited by stevefoot09 (edited 07-21-2006 @ 12:40 PM).]

AuthorReplies:
Lord_Zirconia
Skirmisher
posted 07-19-06 08:49 PM EDT (US)     1 / 43       
I really like this Idea. I was just making something like this except instead of sending 2 falcs, I was working on getting 5 Spahi. I think that would be more effective because Spahi own vills and can cause huge gaps in the opponents eco if you hit the right spot. But this strat i think is very good.
Beatnik Joe
Skirmisher
posted 07-19-06 10:27 PM EDT (US)     2 / 43       
It sounds to me like you're on to a very cool idea! It's a shipment order like what you see in BWKiC, but applied to a civ that can get a trading post much more easily than the British. This is great, as any speed-oriented cannon + church merc FF is going to need that trading post.

The big challenge is coughing up 1000 wood in time, but the "Admiral of the Ocean Sea" politician will help very nicely with that. It looks like you've got this covered as well. In BWKiC that 400 wood was used to catch up on houses and fuel a manor boom \ longbow spam after the cannons and Black Watch were out the door. But with this strat, you can use it to pay for the janissaries themselves. Nice!

In my opinion you've got a very interesting build order going here. I would love to see a recorded game once you've got one. You can post them here at Heavengames, or you can post at www.savefile.com (which is what I've used in the past.)

Thanks for sharing this!


Strategies:
- BWKiC - A British Fast Fortress strategy
- The Aztec Scout Slam- An Envoy Rush, Native-Style
stevefoot09
Skirmisher
posted 07-19-06 10:59 PM EDT (US)     3 / 43       
sirconia,
mmmmmmm good idea with the 5 spahi. But there is one big problem, how r u gonna come up with 1000 wood plus 1000 food? Or are you talking about delayed spahi? Anyway, i wouldnt advise not using spahi's because u need the wood that you are already gathering to get two tc's. I think 2 tc's is better than 5 spahi. esspecially for otto's, they need a big push to get rolling.

joe,
Actually, i sorta got the idea of using the church card for another ff from the bwkic. Also, getting the extra wood at the start is what makes this ff faster than the bwkic. By almost 1 min!

Lastly, do u copy/paste the recs from the main menu? i'm still a little confused on how to post a rec. Ty for your posts.

[This message has been edited by stevefoot09 (edited 07-19-2006 @ 11:01 PM).]

Braenn
Skirmisher
posted 07-20-06 06:13 AM EDT (US)     4 / 43       
@ Steve

You must convert your gamename.age3rec to a .zip file and then upload in the downloads section if you want to post them here

I'm not sure about savefile.com maybe they allow uploads without zipping....

Oh if you need a program to put your recs into a zip file use
WinZip, just google it...


"No Rush games are the AoE3 version of the special olympics". ~ Ender_Ward
There are no stupid questions, only stupid people
sandman666
Skirmisher
posted 07-20-06 06:56 AM EDT (US)     5 / 43       
seems good but garther slow wood for tc's wtf.
just send 1000 wood after and garther food for spahi or industrial or built units whatever
Lord_Zirconia
Skirmisher
posted 07-20-06 07:54 AM EDT (US)     6 / 43       
Yeah, I am still workin on how to get 100 food and wood at the same time....But like others said this is a killer strat. Get some recordings for us to watch the Ottos own people.
Machiavelli_IUB
Skirmisher
posted 07-20-06 10:55 AM EDT (US)     7 / 43       
Sounds like a good "change of pace" Otto FF...99% of the time if an Otto player FF's, it's to bring spahis in right away, so 99% of players who anticipate this will have anti-cav prepared. My suggestion for the follow-up to the initial attack:

1) after gathering the 1k wood for the jans, all villagers go to food, unless it's a water map where you can boat boom.

2) Next card is spahis. If your opponent saw what you're doing, they're probably going to make LI/ship falcs themselves. Spahis rape this combo.

3) Next card is 1k wood. Now you can start building 2 tc's and booming.


Machiavelli_IUB
Apocalypes
Skirmisher
posted 07-20-06 11:08 AM EDT (US)     8 / 43       
Nice, i am gonna fire up my otto civ and try this.
Would u think that building a rax and upgradeing the jans be a good idea or just waste of need resources?

Welcome to democracy BITCH!
60% of the time it works every time
LO12DS_Mist
Skirmisher
posted 07-20-06 11:23 AM EDT (US)     9 / 43       
You have 1k wood by 7 minutes?

Thats pretty good.

Although, I gotta see the rec to be sure


I am Rumour Kontrol.
Beatnik Joe
Skirmisher
posted 07-20-06 11:43 AM EDT (US)     10 / 43       
Yeah, I can't see having the food for Spahi right away, but perhaps as a good follow-up attack after the cannons?

Steve, what is the housing situation usually like for you with this? It seems that you will be in a bit if housing debt with the cannons and jans out. How long until this is usually sorted out?


Strategies:
- BWKiC - A British Fast Fortress strategy
- The Aztec Scout Slam- An Envoy Rush, Native-Style
stevefoot09
Skirmisher
posted 07-20-06 03:15 PM EDT (US)     11 / 43       
Machi,
How long would it take to switch all of your villies to food, get 1000 food, then ship spahis? Your initial attack will probably be over by the time you get out 5 spahis. Mmmm... schooners as next shipment after 2 falcs might not be a bad idea. With all of the wood u will have u could probably: Send schooners,(sp?) build at least 1 extra tc, make 2 docks and mass fishing boats like a mad man, get how ever many more tp's u can find. My opinion is still 5 spahis are hard to come by and will take too long to get. Good ideas though.

Apocalyes,
I've thought about making a rax and upgrading them, but it would slow your time down by WAY to much. Only exception would be on texas. where u already have a rax.

Joe,
By the time your jans come out AFTER your falcs. Your population will look like this: 42/20. Depending on how many villies u have. Your villies are still on wood right? So, 3 houses should be no problem with 13-15 villies already on wood. I usually get 3-4 houses up at 8:30-9:00 minutes because im so concentrated on my attack, i sometimes forget.

About the recorded game, i recorded one against a comp on moderate just to start, I zipped it and uploaded it into the downloads section. But i dont see it in the recorded games section yet. I think it takes 24-72 hours to upload or something like that. I dont know if i did it right but i thought i did. Ty for of your thoughts.

[This message has been edited by stevefoot09 (edited 07-20-2006 @ 03:17 PM).]

Lc_noob
Skirmisher
posted 07-20-06 03:58 PM EDT (US)     12 / 43       
I haven't actually looked at a lots of rain replays (for those who dont know, he is a high level otto player) but I heard he was doing a lot of otto FF or otto delayed FF with fake rush. Wich make sense, a player with some kind of experience, will stop is FF if he spot 5-10 jans in is base early enough or a forward rax. You force at least a defensive card and it should not hurt that much your FF and it will give you the choice to go all out rush if he is not making enough defensive moves.

If he goes for defence, you will rumble through is town with many jans and falcs againt is colonial army... wich is pretty much GG. Also, more time means more ressources, since you can always ship five of those jans and leave you with a forward rax to support you falc attack early fortress.

And, the 12 jans are 1k wood ? I would tend to think that getting some food with some gold to make in house jans, with the surviving jans of the fake rush, would be better economically since you are saving a card, and the rax for the church is a toss up in wood cost, but the forward rax will support you much more, once those fals are running through is town.

Lc_noob
Skirmisher
posted 07-20-06 04:00 PM EDT (US)     13 / 43       
oh and I am not trying to get an argument going, just trying to see another oprion, since I find that not using otto great bonus of strong colonial goes against my beliefs.
Machiavelli_IUB
Skirmisher
posted 07-20-06 05:33 PM EDT (US)     14 / 43       
On average, the Otto player's 5th overall shipment (2nd in fortress) comes at ~9:00, give or take a bit. Spahis are called then, and arrive at 9:40.

Getting the 1k wood straight away is not that hard, if you choose the 1caravel/400W politician for age-up. Then you have to gather a total of 850W (600+250 for church) for the jans, which happens by about 15 seconds after fortressing. Falcs are shipped immediately, both arrive at ~7:45, making the attack happen at ~8:00. This would face ageup skirms+2 falcs, although ageup skirms+dragoons would be more likely unless they saw your church and figured out what you're up to (which wouldn't necessarily happen, since you might have just built the church too early before you needed the vilmax upgrade). Vs. Spanish, it might be 16 pikes+2 falcs, in which case whoever micros falcs best wins.


Machiavelli_IUB
stevefoot09
Skirmisher
posted 07-20-06 05:50 PM EDT (US)     15 / 43       
lc_noob,
Imo, it makes no sense to fake rushing, if u want to do a FAST fortress. It will make your attack be by...what, 10 mins? This ff is meant to be FAST!! Although i have thought about faking a rush, it would make your ff a slow fortress. Ty for your input.
xSephirothx
Skirmisher
(id: xMatt the Greatx)
posted 07-20-06 05:52 PM EDT (US)     16 / 43       
In the case of spanish vs. Ottoman, the player who would be defending would almost certainly win. Access to MM and TC fire would pretty much assure victory as well as the LOS advantage.
Sumer317
Skirmisher
posted 12-24-06 03:28 PM EDT (US)     17 / 43       
This is a great FF!
I tried it and won all 4 out of 4 battles
But the changes I made were after I got the 15 jans my next shipment was schooners

I made 2 docks and started booming that way
Then I shipped in 1000 wood and made the 2 tc's so I came out the winner because on my third battle this guy had a lot of outposts and cavalry my jans too care of some cavalry but then the cav got mad at the falcs so they heaaded for them
I lost my falcs and my jans
But back at the base I had a lot of recources and 2 barracks
I started making janasaries and made a artilery foundry and got some more falcs
It worked great

VooDoo o_O
Skirmisher
posted 12-24-06 11:37 PM EDT (US)     18 / 43       
This looks good at a first glance but ask yourself
15 Jannisaries die extremely fast 2 8-9 skirms, and a player with good micro can easily take our your Jannisaries without getting into falc fire, and after janns gone, Cav or melee Infantry will rip apart your Falconets.
Also even if you do manage to inflict alot of damage, once your initial army is gone you have nothing!
1. A church.
2. A TC.
3. A couple houses.

Hmm alot of options...
Also not to mention no mili buildings means he can easily swamp your base with only 1 shipment in his way, which is most likely the 5 abus/8 janny card (most useful age 3 shipments for fending off Infantry attacks).
Sorry man, until you get a rec against REAL PEOPLE you don't impress me... I mean seriously, how are people supposed to take you seriously when you show a record against MODERATE computer, which as a ~10 minute Colonial time?

Gomezd
Skirmisher
posted 12-25-06 02:04 AM EDT (US)     19 / 43       

Quote:

This looks good at a first glance but ask yourself
15 Jannisaries die extremely fast 2 8-9 skirms, and a player with good micro can easily take our your Jannisaries without getting into falc fire, and after janns gone, Cav or melee Infantry will rip apart your Falconets.
Also even if you do manage to inflict alot of damage, once your initial army is gone you have nothing!
1. A church.
2. A TC.
3. A couple houses.

Im not so sure about that, Most civs wont age up at 7:30 unless they have the excile prince, so how exactly are you ment to take out 15 jans + 2 cannons with a bunch of Xbows, Muskets or hussars?. I dont see how you will be able to take out his jan meatshield with skirms withuot getting within the range of his Falcs, I just dont see it happening.

Once the initial army is gone he can always follow with spaih, and keep the opponent on the defensive while he tries to regain some economic strenght.

I actually see alot of promise on this strat, IMO Ottoman FF's are underated.

micky_tee
Skirmisher
(id: micky_t)
posted 12-25-06 09:09 AM EDT (US)     20 / 43       
Sorry to disappoint you, but I have been doing this several months, my matem steve09 devised it, it's been around for ages.

armyballer - Another 3v3, this time my team is winning, (about an hour into it). One of the other team players admits defeat and resigns, then out of no where I get OOS message. I'm pissed, I again log onto agecommunity and see I have been given a LOSE. How did this happen?

AceOfKings - ender_ward hacked into your game and made it go OOS

Unban JamesLock
VooDoo o_O
Skirmisher
posted 12-25-06 07:53 PM EDT (US)     21 / 43       
Im not so sure about that, Most civs wont age up at 7:30 unless they have the excile prince, so how exactly are you ment to take out 15 jans + 2 cannons with a bunch of Xbows, Muskets or hussars?. I dont see how you will be able to take out his jan meatshield with skirms withuot getting within the range of his Falcs, I just dont see it happening.

Once the initial army is gone he can always follow with spaih, and keep the opponent on the defensive while he tries to regain some economic strenght.

I actually see alot of promise on this strat, IMO Ottoman FF's are underated.
---------------------------------------------------

Ya you forgot about dutch aye?
Also Lbows pwn that whole army.
Do you realise how long it takes to get spahi after you just lost your whole army? Even if yoou have a spare shipment you will probably have 1-300 food at the most.
And even 5 hussars can take out these cannons before they are all killed, then your opponent can just pull his army back and tcfire will murder the janns, which are not even upgraded.

You are right, Ottoman FFs are powerful if thats what you mean but not underrated, they are already considered one of the most powerful FF civs so I don't know why you think they are underpowered...

Ranger General
Skirmisher
posted 12-25-06 11:06 PM EDT (US)     22 / 43       

Quoted from voodoo:

Ya you forgot about dutch aye?
Also Lbows pwn that whole army.
Do you realise how long it takes to get spahi after you just lost your whole army? Even if yoou have a spare shipment you will probably have 1-300 food at the most.
And even 5 hussars can take out these cannons before they are all killed, then your opponent can just pull his army back and tcfire will murder the janns, which are not even upgraded

Ok, lets break it down to pieces.

Quote:

Ya you forgot about dutch aye?


Quote:

Most civs wont age up at 7:30 unless they have the excile prince,

Dutch has the exile prince!

Quote:

Also Lbows pwn that whole army.


Nerfed!

Quote:

Do you realise how long it takes to get spahi after you just lost your whole army?


Nope, switch all your vil(around 18-19 by the time you age up) to food, the age up galley to fish, you can get 1000 food by 8:20, a shipment would be ready by then(due to the TP), 5 Sphais would arrive by 9:00.

Or you can chop wood and build a barrack to produce back up forces.

Quote:

And even 5 hussars can take out these cannons before they are all killed


Only beacuse you don't have any idea about square defense formation, which blocks hussar totally thanks to their stupid path-finding.

This start is not OP, not a match for ender's IOR. But it is a good start.

Quote:

Also even if you do manage to inflict alot of damage, once your initial army is gone you have nothing!
1. A church.
2. A TC.
3. A couple houses.

You forgot 19ish vils and a tower that provides map control.



Ulti's word of wisdom :

since the start of aoe3, every unit that can move has been a direct counter to grenadiers, even villagers(since they have bonuses against siege troops)

[This message has been edited by Ranger General (edited 12-26-2006 @ 10:27 AM).]

LaveY
Skirmisher
posted 12-26-06 04:17 AM EDT (US)     23 / 43       
I just got raped by this

Proud member of EO66
Gomezd
Skirmisher
posted 12-26-06 05:47 AM EDT (US)     24 / 43       
regardless of what you might think bot lbows and dtuch skirms die to cannon fire, and I dont see how you cannot protect your cannons from 5 hussars....

Note: and I ment that Ottomans FF's arent used enough, considering how strong they are.

[This message has been edited by Gomezd (edited 12-26-2006 @ 05:52 AM).]

LordKivlov
Royal Guard
posted 12-26-06 01:07 PM EDT (US)     25 / 43       
8-9 skirms pwn 15 jans and 2 falcs

You sir are hilarious.

You think the skirms could kill the jans without falc fire? think again, all he has to do is drop the jans back to just behind or ontop of his falcs and you can't even get close to them without getting shot.


I'd like to actually see it against dutch, because with 2 falcs they're not going to freely send their skirms in close to kill jans if they're gunna get hit for 300x2 damage before they get a shot in.


Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan
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