You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Strategy Central

Hop to:    
loginhomeregisterhelprules
Bottom
Topic Subject: The Aztec Scout Slam -- an Envoy Rush, Native Style
« Previous Page  1 2 3 4 ··· 9  Next Page »
posted 12-16-06 12:29 PM EDT (US)   
This article describes a highly unconventional, even disturbing Aztec strat. (Recorded games may be found here .) What you are about to read may shock you and offend your sensibilities. Prepare yourself. In this article, I will ask you to use a card you've never played, to make a unit you've never created, and to construct a building you've never built.

So if you love weird strats and underdog units, you've come to the right place. If you've ever cheered on an envoy rush, I was cheering right along with you. And if you want to find out what has recently gotten me called a "n00b", cussed out and even drop-tricked, then sit back, relax, and join me as I take you through... the Aztec Scout Slam.

The "Light Infantry" Problem
As we know by now, classic "light infantry" (Aennas, Strelets, Cetan Bowmen, Skirmishers, etc.) tend to dictate the pace of combat in the game. Early on, they are countered only by cavalry-type units or other, more powerful light infantry.

Sounds fine so far, but why not just make cavalry? The problem is that cavalry have pathing issues and lose to their counters hard -- units like Pikemen rip down cavalry with a vengeance. On the other hand, the skirmisher family doesn't die so quickly to cavalry. This means that light infantry with an anti-cav meatshield is one of the "safest", most popular types of force troop mixes around. Ever tried dealing with Cetan \ War Club (and the shipped Axe Riders)? Not exactly a picnic, is it?

Don't you wish there were units that could close in with those Cetans and just... and just punch their lights out? One begins to wonder if such a unit does in fact exist. Ah, dare to dream. But... I suppose it couldn't hurt to look, right?

Looking for a Hero
So let's take a peek at (of all things) the humble "Native Scout." He's a harmless-looking little chap -- he's got no shirt, some cool blue war paint, and looks like he weighs about 120 pounds soaking wet. Here are his stats:
120 HP, 5 melee attack, 5 siege, 5.5 speed, 22 LoS, 10% ranged resist, Cost: 90 wood (180 villager-seconds) (Can stealth)

Pathetic! Clearly this weenie is not the man for the job. 5 damage? So why do I even waste your time bringing this silly unit up for discussion? Because the Aztecs (and other natives) have the Advanced Scout card, which raises Scout hitpoints by 50% and their attack ability by a whopping 200%! You will be able to train these guys from your Town Center for 90 wood a piece. (Problematic on a couple counts, I know, but more on that later.)

Here are the new stats for the new and improved Scout:
180 HP, 15 melee attack, 15 siege, 5.5 speed, 22 LoS, 10% ranged resist, Cost: 90w (180 villager-seconds) (Can stealth)

Let's compare that to the Coyote Runner:
150 HP, 18 melee attack, 11 siege, 6.0 speed, 12 LoS, 10% ranged resist, Cost: 85f, 25w (163 villager-seconds) (Can stealth with card)

That's right -- in a 1v1 fight, advanced Scouts break absolutely even with coyotes. Yet Scouts do not share the usual vulnerabilities to Pikemen, Rodeleros,etc. The cost is slightly higher, and the speed is slightly slower, but aside from that, Scouts stack up well in virtually every category.

Pikemen barely scratch them. They can charge into a pack of skirms \ pikes, throwing punches like an army of skinny little Oscar de la Hoya's. The numbers are right there for your perusal and they do not lead you astray -- when appropriately upgraded, these guys can hurt people.

In addition, a batch of 5 takes only 20 seconds to build. So if you've got the wood, you can get a scout army raised in a serious hurry.

Problems and Solutions
So now that I've convinced you that the Scout might be worth your time, let's address some of the obvious problems. Namely, that these guys must be built from the Town Center and cost 90 wood a piece.

Let's talk econ first. Since the unit costs only one resource, this gives us one major advantage -- wood upgrades will be extremely valuable to us. You can think of a 20% wood upgrade as a nearly 20% increase in the speed at which you produce scouts. The next wood upgrade? Another great boost. So we'll need to shoot for constant vill production, native wood upgrades ASAP (for a total bonus of +40% wood gathering), and lots of people on wood.

So on to the next question -- how do we produce these TC-only units without halting villager production and running your economy into the ground? The secret? The Native Embassy.

For those who've never used it, the Native Embassy allows you to build any native unit available to you on the map. Any allied minor natives can deliver units to any Embassy that you've placed. Luckily for you, Scouts fall into that category. Native Embassies cost 100 wood, but can only be built after you capture a minor native TP.

So basically, what do we need to do?

  1. Get to colonial with a good economy.
  2. Not get killed by a rush.
  3. Get lots of wood upgrades and lots of wood choppers.
  4. Capture a native TP.
  5. Build a native embassy.
  6. Make lots and lots of scouts.
  7. Punch things.
  8. Make other units too. Find more things that need punching. See step 7.

There you go! I've told you most of what you need to know to get started. I can give you a sample build order that I've been using lately, but many varieties will work. I welcome your suggestions for improvement!

Sample Build Order
Note: All vill numbers are for villagers only, not for total pop. For example, 18 vills means a pop of 19/20 for 18 vills + a Warrior Priest.

  1. 2 vills hunt, 2 vills to food crates, 1 vill to wood crate.
  2. Lay firepit, house, and perform fertility dance.
  3. All vills to food, age with 17-18 vills. Use the Messenger politician. Switch to gift dance (a step I manage to forget about half the time.)
  4. Important! Do not take unnecessary risks with your War Chief. If he dies, you will fall behind. Find your favorite local native TP and get close to it.
  5. Put 7 vills on food, 7-9 vills on wood 2-4 vills on gold. The number of vills on gold is decided by how close you are to wood chopping upgrades. The first costs 100f, 150g and the second costs 150f, 235g. Each grants a 20% increase in wood chopping.
  6. Ship 10 macehualtins when you hit colonial. Harass with them, but don't get them killed. Keep up with housing and vill production. Do not slip on this. You need wood and you need it fast. The vills must keep coming.
  7. Ship Advanced Scouts as soon as it is available.
  8. Once you have 250w free, build a native TP with your War Chief. Choose one whose units or technology you would potentially like to use down the line.
  9. When the native TP completes, build a Native Embassy, either forward if you're attacking or right at home if you are defending. It only costs 100w, so is easily spammed.
  10. Make scouts from the embassy. 5 can be built every 20 seconds. Attack and harass. Once you get a large enough group, attack large forces of light infantry fearlessly.
  11. Play econ cards such as 5 villagers, 3 trading posts, exotic hardwoods (for a total of +60% wood gathering), 3 Warrior Priests, etc.
  12. Diversify your econ as you see fit.

An alternative, perhaps more rush-proof build order is to keep your Warrior Priest on gift dance from the beginning of the match, and then age with 15-16 villagers. You can then instead ship 10 + 9 macehualtins and delay your Advanced Scout shipment.

Cards
The required cards are:

  • 3 Villagers
  • 10 Macehualtins
  • Advanced Scouts

    Recommended cards:

  • 9 Macehualtins
  • 6 Puma Spearmen
  • 5 villagers
  • Exotic Hardwoods (+20% wood chopping)
  • 3 Warrior Priests
  • 3 Trading Posts

    F.A.Q.
    Do you have any recorded games? Yes, you will see them if you scroll to the bottom -- there are five posted. You can also download them here .

    WTF! I mean... Scouts? I know.

    Come on, is a scout really that powerful? What if I make Rodeleros all day long like I usually do? Won't I pwn you then, u n00b? Scouts stand up surprisingly well to rods. Scouts kill rods in 15 hits, rods kill scouts in 14. If you have a gang of 10-19 macehualtin backing your scouts up, you can shred rods.

    What have you inflicted on the community? Do these things have any counters at all? Don't you care about the non-native players?? Yes, they can be countered. If you download the game pack, check the game against Walker. He is the only player that has so far attempted to build a hard counter for scouts (quite impressive as he has only had the x-pack for a few days.) Since Scouts are classified as "Native" troops, spies act as a hard counter for them. If your opponent doesn't know this, well... life is much more difficult for them.

    How about falconets? Yes, artillery can be quite a threat! You certainly won't want to hang around and get blasted. I'll just address the case where you are in colonial and your opponent is in fortress, as in fortress v fortress matches, Arrow Knights are the obvious choice. I'll also assume that you have been attacking your opponent throughout his FF to slow him up and that you have a large contingent of scouts by the time his cannons are out. (You have been harrassing an FFer, haven't you? If not, start today!)

    Trick number one is to always be attacking so that if those cannons come out of the TC you can just mob them. If they are not properly shielded, his shipment goes down the tubes.

    Trick number two (the fun one) is to try to kill the enemy explorer at some point before battle commences, go into stealth mode, and walk right up to the cannons. Since scouts do 15 per shot, it takes 14 punches to kill a cannon. If you close the distance, they don't have a prayer. Walk right up to them and punch each one. Don't worry about anything else but those cannon until they are dead. Then either run or punch your way out. (I perform this in the game vs. Russia from the game pack.)

    It can also be a question of where the cannons are. You have all the line of sight and all the speed. If his cannons are turtling in his base, you can simply circle like a shark, harrass, and boom until you are fortress yourself. If his cannons are slowly trundling toward your base, he has to keep them protected at all times. You have the opportunity to raid his vills, stealth-raid his cannons or whatever else you might like to do. Overall, the journey of getting cannons to your base is fraught with peril, so you have a little time. Don't take forever though!

    Any other hard counters? Lancers, spahi, and cuirassiers are all pretty hard counters (especially lancers.) But don't be fooled -- small numbers of each can be mobbed by a huge number of scouts. Even so, I recommend employing anti-cav for these situations. I know of no other hard counters, but most cavalry units (and rodeleros) at least break even with scouts. I do not believe native civs have any hard counters to scouts. They are in general not easy to counter at all, particularly if you do not see them coming.

    Recorded Games
    You can download the Scout Slam Game Pack here. This is a rundown of the included games:

    ScoutSlamVPorts.age3rec -- This rec is against Walker's Portuguese and shows just how annoying this can be against even the best-executed FF. He takes the honor of being the first opponent to figure out that spies are a hard counter for scouts.

    ScoutSlamVRussia.age3rec -- A game against strelet spam. Notice how much sturdier scouts are against muskets (compared to coyotes.)

    ScoutSlamVOttoFF.age3rec -- A game against an Otto FF, using the 19-macehualtin build. This game shows why I really like to carry the 6-puma shipment. Spahis are inevitable and a bit problematic for scouts. Notice, though, that if catch them out alone, scouts are capable of handling straggler Spahi very well.

    ScoutSlamVSioux.age3rec -- This rec is unfortunately a bit ownage (the macehualtins do more damage than they should), but does illustrate the build against Sioux.

    ObsoleteScoutSlamVSioux.age3rec -- This rec shows a completely obsolete, experimental build order, but the one valuable thing about it is that it shows Cetan spam get reamed by Scouts. A fun recording to watch as you get to see Scouts K.O. Cetans, Axe Riders, and even Dog Soldiers.

    GL HF
    Hopefully this gives you a good picture of what this strat is all about, but please feel free to ask any questions you have. I welcome feedback on any aspect of the strat and I'd love to hear about any experiences you have while trying it out. Good luck and thanks for reading!

    Thanks to Garlef and Septimus for feedback and ideas on the strat, and to Walker for post-game feedback (and not reporting my h4x to ES.) Thanks to Destiny_Devil for taking Scouts for a spin in team games. And of course thanks as always to MNBob for his unit sheets!


    Strategies:
    - BWKiC - A British Fast Fortress strategy
    - The Aztec Scout Slam- An Envoy Rush, Native-Style

    [This message has been edited by Beatnik Joe (edited 12-22-2006 @ 09:57 AM).]

  • Replies:
    posted 12-18-06 06:17 AM EDT (US)     26 / 215  

    Quoted from Spectruz:

    I watched the record games, it was very impressive, Im working in one counter for scouts, Im trying a dutch's spies counter.


    Your counter sounds like it would be a good approach to take. With banks it doesn't seem that you'd have any trouble affording some spies to use for fighting back.

    No one really knew to do this before (except for Walker) so it wasn't something I encountered much. I knew it from reading the unit charts, so I did expect to see it at some point. Never really happened though! So this is something I'll be learning about as this information gets out there and people start playing back in this way. It adds a new, quite unusual set of elements to the game.

    Quoted from Just a player:

    Either way, congratulations for your strategy. Although the possibility of a Scout rush had been mentioned before (first time I saw it was in a post made for Ossian), no one figured they could be built in Embassies. Very well written post too.


    Thanks, I really appreciate that.

    Quoted from Just a player:

    We should play more games though. It was an... interesting way to meet you, but I'm sure you can play very well using more conventional strategies


    Yeah, I really enjoyed playing you! I have to apologize for making such an odd first impression. What people can't see in the replay is that Walker was making funny cracks throughout the match, compared to how rattled \ angry some players get. (Such as the fellow who attempted to drop-trick me yesterday.) By the way, anyone thinking of performing this strat may want to bone up on their drop-trick counters.

    Quoted from Just a player:

    Don't worry. I'm still developing my own weird strategies


    Now this I can't wait to see!

    Quoted from The_Garlic_King:

    I was wondering if it would be worth sending the 3 TP card instead of building a native Trade Post naturally (perhaps in place of the 2nd Mac card)? I'm not sure how it would shape up in terms of possibly being a waste of a card, or if it might take too long, but if the time difference was minimal and it didnt present too much of a problem with sending the other important cards then you could have a native Tp up for free, and 2 more bringing in XP?


    Absolutely, this could work great, particularly if you play around with the gift dance! I think it all comes down to what kind of pressure you're going to be under and what units you're going to be facing. If your opponent is going to be sitting back and you have the chance to take the trade route uncontested, you could even consider starting with the 3 TP card first thing in colonial. An upgraded trade route bringing in wood is a major step closer to victory.

    On the other hand if you're likely to get rushed or will be facing rodeleros, a sturdy contingent of macehualtins to back up your scouts will be just what the doctor ordered.

    Quoted from wreckoning:

    Cool strat... the other native civs could benefit from it as well I'm sure, both having more wood to spare than Aztec. With the weakest melee cav in the game (and lacking European spies of course), Aztec also seems like the most vulnerable civ to a Scout Slam attack... as you said, Coyote Runner at best breaks even with an Advanced Scout.


    It's absolutely true, Aztecs could also be one of the greatest victims of this strat. Aside from mercs and big-button jags, scouts tear through anything in the Aztec colonial arsenal. Jaguar Prowler Knights don't do as well as you might expect since they don't get their anti-heavy infantry bonus in this situation.

    Quoted from wreckoning:

    Yet Aztec is the one who most needs some kind of short diversion before they can get their bonus working for them.


    You've nailed it. Many of their bonuses in fact. Your econ, units, Warrior Priest contingent and Big Button techs all get better with time. Getting through colonial can be hard sometimes, though, and this strat is an additional tool that can be used for doing that.

    Strategies:
    - BWKiC - A British Fast Fortress strategy
    - The Aztec Scout Slam- An Envoy Rush, Native-Style

    [This message has been edited by Beatnik Joe (edited 12-18-2006 @ 08:15 AM).]

    posted 12-18-06 10:55 AM EDT (US)     27 / 215  
    Can this be countered by natives in any other way than counter scout spamming?

    If peeing your pants is cool, consider me Miles Davis.
    posted 12-18-06 01:58 PM EDT (US)     28 / 215  
    posted 12-18-06 03:23 PM EDT (US)     29 / 215  
    I'm pretty sure 2 Scouts would punch an Axe Rider to death!

    ESO - Walker

    >> Napoleonic Era --> Visit their Homepage!
    "Holy *****" > Thunder (Ensemble Studios)

    Retired from AoE3. But I do play AoK HD in Steam now and then.
    posted 12-18-06 03:43 PM EDT (US)     30 / 215  
    Man I just saw the game against Walker. That poor guy.

    While Spies counter Scouts hard, they're quite abit more expensive for non Dutch/Ottomans and get creamed way too easily by light infantry, such as Joe's Macehualtin.
    By the way, Joe, I know it's easy to play hindsight general, but consider building Macehualtin earlier to shoo away those annoying Dragoons.

    This strat is surprisingly viable.


    "One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
    posted 12-18-06 04:59 PM EDT (US)     31 / 215  
    about what time do you have what amount of scouts out? Also im wondering if scouts cost pop. im not sure if they do cause they are natives...

    also could iro perform this better than aztec?

    posted 12-18-06 05:36 PM EDT (US)     32 / 215  
    <snip>
    throwing punches like an army of skinny little Oscar de la Hoya's.
    <unsnip>

    Best quote evah!

    Nice job Joe. I looked at em before and noticed they come out the embassy, but I really didnt compare the stats to the Coyote runner. Pretty darn close, and GJ on the build.

    BTW, second best quote evah?!

    <snip>
    you can still research the Black Watch, and miracle of miracles, they still show up (presumably to sleep in boxes under an overpass.)
    <unsnip>

    posted 12-18-06 05:36 PM EDT (US)     33 / 215  
    Oh, one thing you forgot to mention. At least I think you did...

    Scouts do NOT slow down units on hit. That means faster ranged units such as Dragoons or any Ranged Cavalry can do a good job. Notice the can. In that game I still lost because my only Dragoons came from shipments... But I'm sure a larger army could have done better


    ESO - Walker

    >> Napoleonic Era --> Visit their Homepage!
    "Holy *****" > Thunder (Ensemble Studios)

    Retired from AoE3. But I do play AoK HD in Steam now and then.
    posted 12-18-06 05:39 PM EDT (US)     34 / 215  
    posted 12-18-06 07:46 PM EDT (US)     35 / 215  

    Quoted from donkee:

    Can this be countered by natives in any other way than counter scout spamming?


    The most effective way is to kill the scout slammer before he gets the full slam in motion. A great Iro or Sioux rush, if it puts you away before the scouts come into the picture, is a viable option. Once it gets going, though, it's tough to stop. A solid Iro FF could also be very tough, of course, so it's important to beat on and harass those players so that they cannot FF unmolested. An unmolested Iro FF will kill an Aztec pretty much every time anyway, so this is not a new rule.

    Quoted from Just a player:

    I'm pretty sure 2 Scouts would punch an Axe Rider to death!


    Axe rider: 250 HP, 35 attack
    Scout: 180 HP, 15 attack

    So for 2 scouts vs. 1 axe rider, let's say one scout dies in 6 shots. Each scout lands 6 shots, for a total of 12, so the axe rider is left with 70 HP. At that point, you are left with a healthy scout versus a 70 HP axe rider, who dies in 5 shots. It's a close fight, but the scouts are probably a slight favorite. And this is against their best counter unless you include the really special stuff like dog soldiers and grizzlies. Looks like the statement above is correct!

    Quoted from Ender_Ward:

    By the way, Joe, I know it's easy to play hindsight general, but consider building Macehualtin earlier to shoo away those annoying Dragoons.


    I very sincerely appreciate the feedback on my game, and I definitely agree. I was too in the groove with scouts and just kept churning them out. Fortunately they are powerful enough to still at least get the threat chased away, but light infantry (as you suggest) is much better to actually kill efficiently.

    Quoted from Ender_Ward:

    This strat is surprisingly viable.


    Thanks, I was pleased that such a thing was possible. It's no silver bullet (as there are counters), but I think it's an amazing tool for this civ (and probably the other natives too.)

    Quoted from steve09:

    about what time do you have what amount of scouts out?


    This is a good question (for which it's hard to give a good answer.) It seems to vary depending on which build I go with. If I ship both sets of macehualtins (to keep a rush off of me) then I'll obviously get my scouts much later. If I went straight to scouts, it would be faster but could leave me with a bit more rush vulnerability. I'll have to peek at the recorded games and see.

    Quoted from Squints:

    Nice job Joe. I looked at em before and noticed they come out the embassy, but I really didnt compare the stats to the Coyote runner. Pretty darn close, and GJ on the build.


    Thanks! Quite honestly, in the colonial age against natives, I can't think of any good reason to favor coyote runners over scouts (aside from having to play the Advanced Scout card.) Oh, heh, thanks for reminding me of the BWKiC quote about housing. With all their big button techs, the Aztecs make BWKiC's modest pop limit abuse look like nothing!

    Quoted from Just a player:

    Scouts do NOT slow down units on hit.


    Wow. I did not know that! Do... do you know why that could be? I don't see anything special on the scout's unit chart, but in this case I don't quite know what I'd be looking for!

    Strategies:
    - BWKiC - A British Fast Fortress strategy
    - The Aztec Scout Slam- An Envoy Rush, Native-Style

    [This message has been edited by Beatnik Joe (edited 12-18-2006 @ 07:47 PM).]

    posted 12-18-06 07:59 PM EDT (US)     36 / 215  

    Quote:

    Wow. I did not know that! Do... do you know why that could be? I don't see anything special on the scout's unit chart, but in this case I don't quite know what I'd be looking for!

    I would assume this is because of the French starting scout. If it caused units to slow down, enemy explorers would almost automatically die when facing french opponents.

    posted 12-18-06 08:29 PM EDT (US)     37 / 215  
    The no slowdown thing is also same with War Dogs and most pets/converted/tamed guardians. As Matt says, it's so you don't can't as easily kill the enemy explorer with them.

    "One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
    posted 12-18-06 08:39 PM EDT (US)     38 / 215  
    I wish the Sioux could be as good at this. Because I'm not good as the Aztecs, and I don't really like their units either. (Besides the slings and some knights anyway)

    [This message has been edited by Formless (edited 12-18-2006 @ 08:39 PM).]

    posted 12-18-06 09:13 PM EDT (US)     39 / 215  

    Quote:

    So for 2 scouts vs. 1 axe rider, let's say one scout dies in 6 shots. Each scout lands 6 shots, for a total of 12, so the axe rider is left with 70 HP. At that point, you are left with a healthy scout versus a 70 HP axe rider, who dies in 5 shots. It's a close fight, but the scouts are probably a slight favorite. And this is against their best counter unless you include the really special stuff like dog soldiers and grizzlies. Looks like the statement above is correct!

    It's closer than I imagined. Anyway, Axe Riders can still be countered, while Native Scouts can't (at least by most convencional units). What I mean is that X Scouts + Y Pumas > X Axe Riders + Y Anything you can make in Sioux Colonial.


    ESO - Walker

    >> Napoleonic Era --> Visit their Homepage!
    "Holy *****" > Thunder (Ensemble Studios)

    Retired from AoE3. But I do play AoK HD in Steam now and then.
    posted 12-19-06 07:31 AM EDT (US)     40 / 215  
    Ah, thanks for explaining the reason for scouts not slowing units down. That seems totally logical. Anyone know what is in the proto.xml file that gives a unit that characteristic?

    Quoted from Formless:

    I wish the Sioux could be as good at this. Because I'm not good as the Aztecs, and I don't really like their units either. (Besides the slings and some knights anyway)


    I believe the Sioux could excel at this as well. With free housing they have a built-in economic bonus of their own that may be very well-suited to unit spamming. I bet that if you try a fairly similar build with the Sioux you'll find that it works quite effectively. Heck, you get a wood politician and everything!

    Quoted from Just a player:

    It's closer than I imagined. Anyway, Axe Riders can still be countered, while Native Scouts can't (at least by most convencional units). What I mean is that X Scouts + Y Pumas > X Axe Riders + Y Anything you can make in Sioux Colonial.


    Exactly right. And with the wood upgrades and a better production rate, even just going scouts could work just fine. In Aztec vs. Sioux, I will accept a stalemate if it gets me to fortress with a good econ and my big button techs "fattened."


    Strategies:
    - BWKiC - A British Fast Fortress strategy
    - The Aztec Scout Slam- An Envoy Rush, Native-Style

    [This message has been edited by Beatnik Joe (edited 12-19-2006 @ 07:31 AM).]

    posted 12-19-06 09:17 AM EDT (US)     41 / 215  

    Quote:

    Ah, thanks for explaining the reason for scouts not slowing units down. That seems totally logical. Anyone know what is in the proto.xml file that gives a unit that characteristic?

    I searched in the proto and didn't find anything. So I suspect this information could be in the Data\tactics file... I compared a Pikeman and a Musketeer hand attack code with a Scout type unit and noticed a difference. The Musketeer and the Pikeman have these two lines:

    <targetspeedboost>1</targetspeedboost>
    <speedboost>1</speedboost>

    Maybe it has something to do with it? I don't know for sure, so I'll ask Kastor later.


    ESO - Walker

    >> Napoleonic Era --> Visit their Homepage!
    "Holy *****" > Thunder (Ensemble Studios)

    Retired from AoE3. But I do play AoK HD in Steam now and then.
    posted 12-19-06 01:55 PM EDT (US)     42 / 215  
    Solid strat. To fight cav (spahis, cuiraiseers, lancers) try skull knights as aztec. Will render brit lbow/musk or port church xbow/cassador ineffective. The germans crumble under a skull/macehualtin/scout attack. Russians are probably cursing right now, the strelet is inseperable from any russian army. I'll say it again, skulls are vital to this combo. Otherwise Ottomans, French, Spanish fort rushers kill this combo. Don't use against ottomans.

    Axes can be upgraded. An elite axe might fare better against a scout. A legendary axe kills two scouts without a ton of diffuculty (just a guess).

    [This message has been edited by design and help (edited 12-19-2006 @ 02:08 PM).]

    posted 12-19-06 02:24 PM EDT (US)     43 / 215  
    darn good thing the dutch have a build limit on envoys don't u think

    even an envoy "slowdown" rush has worked for some dutch players, so a advanced scout rush, with units that are much better than envoys but cost twice as much sounds very viable. too bad I don't play natives anymore.

    however, i think i'm gonna stick that 5 spy card back in my decks!



    Currently retired from AOE3... moved on to LOTRO... yeah an MMO... but a fun one!
    Hockey fan for Life:
    "I believe the Canucks of Vancouver are formidable warriors." -Teal'c, Stargate SG-1
    posted 12-19-06 03:04 PM EDT (US)     44 / 215  
    Watch out for ninja. Ninja are powerful and the 12 ninja card is popular. On a ninja in saloon map this is less effective. Maps without natives or where your opponent controls all natives kill this tactic. This could potentially become a trade monopoly tactic with the required native and the speed of moving 80% of your forces at 5.5 speed. Put the advanced TP card in your deck and monopolies are quite possible.
    posted 12-19-06 08:42 PM EDT (US)     45 / 215  

    Quoted from Just a player:

    Maybe it has something to do with it? I don't know for sure, so I'll ask Kastor later.

    That might indeed be it... interesting! Seems like there's always something new to find out about.

    Quoted from design and help:

    Solid strat. To fight cav (spahis, cuiraiseers, lancers) try skull knights as aztec.

    Thanks! Skull knights are awesome units but tricky to mass up. Scouts really do great in colonial, help out in many situations in fortress, and generally (for me at least) leave the field by industrial. Since I'm playing Aztecs, I'm very happy with my late game army, but not as jazzed about colonial, so scouts are really great during that time period.

    Quoted from ZION_CDawg:

    even an envoy "slowdown" rush has worked for some dutch players, so a advanced scout rush, with units that are much better than envoys but cost twice as much sounds very viable. too bad I don't play natives anymore.

    Never too late to come back.

    Strategies:
    - BWKiC - A British Fast Fortress strategy
    - The Aztec Scout Slam- An Envoy Rush, Native-Style
    posted 12-19-06 09:29 PM EDT (US)     46 / 215  
    This is truly an innovative, fun strat. I've used it three times but lost to a Russian rush on Painted Desert. Problem was I had to go to far for wood and lost a fair amount of vils. However, I do look forawrd to using it more now that I'm leveling my Aztecs

    [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    [][][][][][][][][][] Stonewall J [][][][][][][][][][][]
    [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    posted 12-20-06 02:42 PM EDT (US)     47 / 215  
    I may be blind - but where on Earth do you find that Adv. Scout card

    I looked everywhere, but came up blank ?


    TORDENSKIOLD(1690-1720)

    During the Great Nordic War (1700-1720), he was commander of the danish navy, which defeaded the swedish army at Kristiania (modern Oslo). After the war, he was killed in a duel on Nov. 12, 1720 just outside Hamburg, Germany, during a travel to England.

    ESO: TORDENSKIOLD
    posted 12-20-06 03:19 PM EDT (US)     48 / 215  
    Aztec Scout Slam - A.S.S.
    I love it!!!

    I will try this next time I get a new card on my aztec HC.

    Do the scouts get auto upgraded when you age up?


    Counter the attack, then Counter Attack!!!
    posted 12-20-06 03:39 PM EDT (US)     49 / 215  
    No they don't auto-upgrade.

    agecommunity quote of the month Ok i have payed for this game for al my moneythat i get in a month so when i go online isee these 9 year old kids that beat me that have played for 2 weeks and i have played since release of vanilla so im pretty pissed of that es dosent want to do anything about the balance of the game.
    posted 12-20-06 06:12 PM EDT (US)     50 / 215  

    Quoted from Stonewall J:

    This is truly an innovative, fun strat. I've used it three times but lost to a Russian rush on Painted Desert. Problem was I had to go to far for wood and lost a fair amount of vils. However, I do look forawrd to using it more now that I'm leveling my Aztecs


    Excellent, really glad to hear you like it! Yes, the ol' "faraway wood" problem gets me every time. Wood is typically one of the easiest resources to protect, but you get those occasional maps where there is no close wood and none behind your base. Quite a nightmare! In such situations I've generally been going 10 macehualtins - 6 puma - advanced scouts. It's a tiny bit longer before you get scouts, but if you just raise a 2nd Native Embassy you can make up the lost time very quickly.

    What I've recently realized is that with the low cost of a native embassy, it's really not necessary to get in too much of a hurry with the scouts. Get yourself nice and comfortable that you won't get killed, and then just go with 2 embassies. That'll get you a serious army of scouts in no time, assuming your wood production is at full steam.

    Quoted from Tordenskiold:

    I may be blind - but where on Earth do you find that Adv. Scout card


    It has a bit of a strange icon -- it's just this guy kind of... standing there holding a pole I guess. It may be found in the Market section of your cards. MNBob comes through again, this time with his card guide.

    Quoted from justiw:

    Aztec Scout Slam - A.S.S. I love it!!!


    Ha ha... no one is ever going to believe me on this one, but the acronym is entirely unintentional. But at this point, I have no choice but to embrace it. If you need me, you can find me on ESO, using my A.S.S. to try to defeat my opponents.

    Quoted from justiw:

    Do the scouts get auto upgraded when you age up?


    I agree with jaafit -- I don't believe that they get upgraded when you advance in age. But oh how wonderful "Legendary Scouts" would be.

    Strategies:
    - BWKiC - A British Fast Fortress strategy
    - The Aztec Scout Slam- An Envoy Rush, Native-Style

    [This message has been edited by Beatnik Joe (edited 12-20-2006 @ 06:15 PM).]

    « Previous Page  1 2 3 4 ··· 9  Next Page »
    Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » Strategy Central » The Aztec Scout Slam -- an Envoy Rush, Native Style
    Top
    You must be logged in to post messages.
    Please login or register
    Hop to:    
    Age of Empires III Heaven | HeavenGames