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Topic Subject: Aztec ZAP! Rush
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posted 01-20-07 10:57 PM EDT (US)   
Introduction

Yes, here it is. The strategy that puts the Aztecs in the big leagues. This, my friend, is the one-way ticket to 1v1 supremacy. It beats any strategy out there... almost. If your enemy is really, really good, and sees it coming, and makes walls and banks, he has a slight chance. He may even have a bit of an advantage. But that's it.

It beats an Iroquois rush. It beats an Iroquois FF. I might even go so far as to say it beats a spanish FF. It even fares well against a rod rush. I know you're antsy to see what it is, so...

Cards Needed(In Order)
•3 Settlers
•10 Macehualtin
•11 rodeleros
•9 Zapotec Lightning Warriors
•6 Janey the Pet Jaguars
•6 Puma Spearmen
•9 Macehualtin

Recommended cards:
•700 food
•700 wood or 2 war huts
•5 settlers
•3 War Priests
•8 settlers
•10 coyote runners
•All three Knight Combat cards, and any other good age 3 cards.

Objective

There are three unique aspects of the Aztec that this strategy relies heavily upon. Their starting firepit, their no-pop military cards, and their big button jaguar prowl knights.

The aim of this strategy is to sacrifice a good economy in order to get TONS of units out there in a short period of time. Tons of great, high quality units; not maces or coyotes. All of them coming from shipments and big buttons.

Upon reaching age 2, ship in 10 maces, followed by 11 rodeleros. While the rodeleros are shipping get the first big button. Send that army at the enemy, and ship 9 zapotec when you get enough XP. Queue the second big button by the time the zapotec arrive. Send these guys in. Ship 6 Janeys, and after the janeys arrive you should have enough resources for the third and final big button. This third big button should be clicked any time between 9 and 10 minutes. You will probably win the game when these guys arrive. If not, make a forward warhut and ship 6 puma and 9 mace, and make whatever units needed.

You must have your War Priest on the XP dance the whole game, until your age 2 shipments are used up.

Build Order

Discovery Age
•Collect crates, hunt, make a firepit ASAP, and set War
Priest to XP(Gift) dance. Leave any gold crates for later.
•Collect as many treasures as you can. Get any good
treasures, as all resources, including XP, are valuable
in this rush.
Send 3 Settlers
•Advance with 16 settlers (17 population) with the Messenger Politician.
-Transition-
•Shift most of your food gatherers to coin so you have 4
on food.
•If you haven't made a second house yet, gather 100 wood
for it and make it. If you already have this wood from
starting crates/treasures, all the better.
•Once you have that house, shift all your wood gatherers
to coin, for a total of 12 on coin, 4 on food.
Colonial Age
Ship 10 macehualtin. You should be at 27/30 population.
•While the maces ship, queue another settler. Put this
settler on food (for 5 total) when it is trained.
•You should have 500 coin by the time the maces arrive.
Send 11 Rodeleros as soon as possible.
•You should have 450 food before the rods arrive. Click
the big button "Aztec Scouting Party"
in your Town Center.

When you have an army of 3 jags, 11 rods, and 10 maces,
send them to your enemy. Have your explorer (who was busy
getting treasures)and his pets meet the army in the enemy
base.

•When you have enough XP for your next shipment, send 9
Zapotec Lightning Warriors
for 500 coin. Don't worry-
you'll easily have this much by now, and they take no population.
•Once ZAPotec warriors are clicked, shift some goldies off of the mine and onto food. You should have 8-10 on food and 7-9 on coin, depending on how much of either you need for the next big button.
•When you have 450 food 450 coin, click the second big
button at your Town Center.
The Jaguar Prowl Knights
should arrive about when the Zapotec warriors arrive.
•Send the Zapotec and jaguar knights in to attack as soon as they arrive.
•Shift some food and gold settlers to wood so you can get the 3rd big button as soon as possible.
Send 6 Janey the pet Jaguars. This card requires no pop and is surprisingly effective as they have a lot of HP and no counter.
•As soon as you have 450 food 450 wood 450 coin, click the third big button.
•Shift all mining vills off of coin and on to wood for houses and an eventual forward warhut. The sooner that hut goes up, the sooner you can press your advantage and make pumas/coyotes/maces to harrass the enemy.
Ship 6 puma spearmen for your next shipment (good siege).
•Make a forward warhut, and some houses
Send 9 macehualtin to your forward hut.
•Shift your settlers around however you see fit so you can pump out units at the warhut.
•Begin settler production again.
•Send whatever cards needed to end the game.

NOTES:
-Zapotec Lightning Warriors, are, if you didn't know, good against cavalry and buildings.
-Rodeleros are not very good against buildings anymore, but they are great for killing small groups of ranged infantry such as crossbows or skirmishers. Keep them away from muskets unless they outnumber them.
-Rodeleros do the same siege in cover mode, so use it!
-Usually it is best to take out vulnerable villagers, then barracks/war huts, and then houses and outposts, before attacking town centers.
-Be sure to use a couple units (preferably a group of rods) to catch any far-off hunters.
-If the enemy tries to wall and turtle hard against you (maybe dutch/brit) go around the wall at first then, if the distance is unreasonable to go continually, take down part of it in the middle while the enemy army is dead or hiding.
-Janeys have no siege so use them for minutemen/other units only.
-Since you have a low vill count, do whatever you can to bring his down also.
-This is an all-or-nothing strategy, so have fun when you win (all of the time, right?) and don't get too mad if you lose.
-There is also a 9 Maya Holcan Spearmen card for 500 coin, no pop. If you want your deck to be even more deadly try adding this in! But to be truthful, mayans are only good for siege.
-Try mixing up the cards for different effects. 6 puma instead of 10 maces, and zapotecs instead of rods will make a super-siege army. Great for taking down a plain FF.

Now go have Fun!

Recorded Games

F1RÉ_FLÝ vs CraPuLa CraPuLa plays Iroquois and goes for semi-FF. You know what I do . He is a very good player, a lot better than I, but this strategy is just THAT good.

F1RÉ_FLÝ vs Worldeater Worldeater is ports and goes for defensive TC placement, and tries to mass muskets. He doesn't use CM...

F1RÉ_FLÝ vs Swejoker A large difference in skill levels, I know, but it shows how good treasure gathering can speed things up quite a bit. XP treasures are great.

All recs are from 1.02 so don't worry about them not working. I used AgeSanctuary so there is no hassle in downloading them. Sorry, but I find that Heaven's replay system is just too much work for 3 replays. Especially since I'm not much of a computer geek so I don't know how to do it. I forget.

And special credit goes to steve09 for being my first guinea pig!


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ESO: F1RÉ_FLÝ
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[This message has been edited by F1RE_FLY (edited 01-21-2007 @ 05:52 PM).]

Replies:
posted 01-20-07 11:37 PM EDT (US)     1 / 102  
Are Rods any less good against buildings in 1.02? Was their siege damage changed? It's my understanding that "Reduced Rodelero building bonus" refers to the XP generated by producing them. Am I wrong?

The strat looks good, remind me not to play against your Aztecs anymore.


If peeing your pants is cool, consider me Miles Davis.
posted 01-21-07 00:43 AM EDT (US)     2 / 102  
thanks for the strat. i imagine ill be seeing this.

yeah donkee, rods siege reduced from 20 to 10, although it is still 10 in cover mode. zapotec dont have splash but they siege pretty well, 30. the puma really bring the hurt with siege though. granted they are siege troopers.

posted 01-21-07 01:11 AM EDT (US)     3 / 102  
have you tried this against a russian? i can see strelets totally blowing your strat here

[This message has been edited by far_easterner (edited 01-21-2007 @ 01:15 AM).]

posted 01-21-07 02:02 AM EDT (US)     4 / 102  
Very intersting. And I'm gonna watch the game against Crapula (no offense intended, but the other guys are just not good enough to be real test subjects).

How would you deal with a mass of Jans supported by some Abus Guns? Especially on a TP map, with the Ottoman player being capable of hit and run? Most of your forces are melee infantry, that's abit problematic. Especially when you can't afford to produce new Macehualtin, beyond your initial 10 (housing issues).

Or what about walled Abus Guns (perhaps even double wall)? Does your initial attack come early enough to break through a single or double wall, and rip into the Abus?

The reason for my interest in these scenarios should be obvious.

EDIT:
Ok, just watched the game against Crapula. You're right, I think, this is the most dangerous Aztec rush I've seen yet. Good work, and damn you for making me have to think of a counter to yet another strat, just when I thought I had Aztec all figured out.



"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."

[This message has been edited by Ender_Ward (edited 01-21-2007 @ 02:16 AM).]

posted 01-21-07 07:29 AM EDT (US)     5 / 102  
O-M-G is all I can say... that sounds indeed VERY dangerous.

And another OP strategy, here it comes .

Why do people all have to develop new, super strong strategies?! First FP FF and fast halb spam, now this! Takes away all the balance and importance of micro/tactic...


Anyway I guess its time for me to level my Aztec HC: Lamers, here I come!!

posted 01-21-07 07:46 AM EDT (US)     6 / 102  
i just tryed it twice in non rated games, both vs dutch who supposedly pwn aztecs and after the game they said "f*** you noob, F*** laming piece of S***"... thanks for the anti dutch lamer strat fire fly

p.s. i just re read i and i sent the zapotec worriors before the rods, thats why it didn't pwn them sooner


eso name: _XploSionS__

===quit due to the many many whinge and whine topics===

[This message has been edited by XploSionS (edited 01-21-2007 @ 07:47 AM).]

posted 01-21-07 08:00 AM EDT (US)     7 / 102  
Good to know that the lamers are getting beat. It is my lifelong dream come true!

@Voltiguer: If this becomes OP, I'll delete it! Honestly. But I'll save it on microsoft works for when it isn't OP anymore.

Kidding.


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ESO: F1RÉ_FLÝ
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[This message has been edited by F1RE_FLY (edited 01-21-2007 @ 08:01 AM).]

posted 01-21-07 08:03 AM EDT (US)     8 / 102  
Hahah, this looks pretty nice, it's just so aggressive

Well done with the strat, normally I'm very hesitant on rushes that neglect economy so badly but this is so weird it might just work.


•Qazitory•
•AoE3 rating: Qazitory
My AoE3:TWC mods: QazUI - Treasure - Main Menu - Low Lag HC - Deck selection•
•Guide my keystrokes, keep my programs alive, protect me from viruses, back up my drive.•
posted 01-21-07 10:48 AM EDT (US)     9 / 102  
WOW!

I've been doing Serge's Jaguar rush, with some mace and janeys. But this seems much more powerful

I was actually coming onto HG today hoping to see another Aztec strategy for me to try out or I'd have to start thinking Great job, i'll watch the recs then go onto ESO and give it a whirl. Thanks


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[][][][][][][][][][] Stonewall J [][][][][][][][][][][]
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posted 01-21-07 11:21 AM EDT (US)     10 / 102  
I haven't got zapotecs yet but I tried it with maya to great effect.

Very nice rush. It hits hard and fast and you can keep it up a while.


ESO : Pcfreak8
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is." -Jan L. A. van de Snepscheu
A pessimist is usually right and never disappointed.
Any history buff knows that nothing stops a cannon like a good uppercut. - BeatnikJoe

[This message has been edited by somme (edited 01-21-2007 @ 11:26 AM).]

posted 01-21-07 11:37 AM EDT (US)     11 / 102  
i just showed one of my m8s this whose in my clan, he wanted to challenge me because were having a clan tourney and after the game he asked if he could take back his challenge pwnage tactic, i love it

eso name: _XploSionS__

===quit due to the many many whinge and whine topics===
posted 01-21-07 11:40 AM EDT (US)     12 / 102  
i read this earlier and wondered if u had used it xplosions. im going to haveto use it no ive seen how powerful it is. great stratedgy.

[This message has been edited by mastermuir (edited 01-21-2007 @ 11:43 AM).]

posted 01-21-07 11:44 AM EDT (US)     13 / 102  
thank you firefly!
As an aztec player im very happy to see this. I ran up a 12 game losing streak last week while trying out new strategies for aztecs......
None were close to this good. Nice work!
posted 01-21-07 12:14 PM EDT (US)     14 / 102  
Thanks for the nice replies! I'm sure that mixing up the cards can make several different options, such as 6 pumas as first card and then 9 zapotec (or 9 mayans). 6 puma, 9 zapotec, and 3 jags will tear through outposts and houses in a naked FF.

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ESO: F1RÉ_FLÝ
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posted 01-21-07 12:18 PM EDT (US)     15 / 102  
Hey, now this is some good stuff! Hits hard, makes great use of the Aztec civ bonuses, and causes your opponent to spout profanity. My kind of tactic!

I tried this out a few times today and I was very impressed with it. There are a few interesting "sticking points" in the strat that required a minor amount of improvisation. After shipping the 10 maces, if you don't snag an XP treasure, you're going to wait on those 11 rods. Putting a few vills on XP dance to correct this problem worked fairly well. (Aztec flexibility makes this possible, another reason they are such a great choice for this sort of strat.)

The places where I think this strat would run into trouble is against civs that can spam a lot of hit-n-run skirm infantry. Russia and Dutch (and maybe Otto to an extent) are the primary examples here. I didn't face any Russian players, but my gut feeling is that a 14-vill up to strelet spam is going to be annoying to face. You could see 23 strelets by 5:30, and 43 strelets by ~6:30. I fear that against an army of nearly 100% heavy infantry the strelets will just do much too well. The Janeys are good against the strelets, but they come a bit later on.

It sounds like you had success against Dutch, but I was wondering how this would go against a skirm spammer with good hit-n-run. You don't have skirm counters until the Janeys are out and I'm afraid they'd deal too much damage to all of the heavy infantry. How did this work for you in practice?

Anyway, those question marks aside, this is a great strategy! Thumbs up.


Strategies:
- BWKiC - A British Fast Fortress strategy
- The Aztec Scout Slam- An Envoy Rush, Native-Style
posted 01-21-07 12:53 PM EDT (US)     16 / 102  
Very similar to Serge's strat except a few changes which I don't understand.

You'd need the 30 pop cap to ship rods and the xp to do it. This won't always happen, so what do you fall back on? Do you chop the extra 100 wood for the 30 pop cap?

As merc shipments, rods will arrive slow and you will be standing on a mace/3jag defense early which will get destroyed by a fast rush or really any rush that employs LI. The 500 gold requirement will delay the second jag button by a considerable length of time. When I get the 30 pop cap I prefer 10+9 maces, it gives a more sturdy backup to the jags and is FREE. Even 10 mace+6 pet is better i think. that way you can get out all your jag shipments faster and add the janeys sooner to deal with LI. I don't see the value in the rod shipment until after all of these free ones are sent, since rods overlap on the job your first 9 jags would be doing anyway, and will get countered by the same units. you can get a more rounded army out faster with the free shipments.


ESO: Naevius
posted 01-21-07 01:50 PM EDT (US)     17 / 102  

Quoted from Roark:

I don't see the value in the rod shipment until after all of these free ones are sent, since rods overlap on the job your first 9 jags would be doing anyway, and will get countered by the same units.


IMO Rods have more value. The Jaguars are unfortunately a lot slower and will spent most of their time catching up to Skirmishers. Rodeleros on the other hand move substantially faster and will quickly catch/overwhelm low numbers of Skirmishers.

Yes, technically both get countered by the same units, but Rods do quite a bit better against these counters.

That said, against Skirmisher/Strelet opposition I would look for ways to cut down on the Jaguar Knights, and instead ship 5 Coyote Runners and train more. With 6 Janeys, 10-15 Coyotes, 3 Jaguar Knights and 11 Zapotech, you'd have both enough seige and enough anti-light infantry units to overwhelm a Russian/Dutch. Then might as well follow up with more Jaguar Knights for extra seige.

The thing to do with the Zapotech/3 Jaguars is take down Blockhouses and houses, while the Strelets attempt to hit and run Coyotes/Janeys.


"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
posted 01-21-07 02:16 PM EDT (US)     18 / 102  

Quote:

It sounds like you had success against Dutch, but I was wondering how this would go against a skirm spammer with good hit-n-run. You don't have skirm counters until the Janeys are out and I'm afraid they'd deal too much damage to all of the heavy infantry. How did this work for you in practice?

its quite annoying i managed to hit the dutch players fast enough to get their raxes down before they were built, they re-made them in hidden locations next which was reasonably annoying as every 5 skirms that came out took about 5 of my men with them, then i got a war hut up and some janeys and managed to kill the skirms reasonably easily but untill then i was suffering and i had very few remaining jags from the first and econd waves of jaguars, even the rods and zapotecs were dieing quickly.

the strange thing is that this strat worked extreemly well against higher lvl people then me but when i played vs my clan mate who was 5 pr below me he fared by far the best, his musket held me off reasonably well and since he had 2 barraks i had a difficult time killing them as they made musks at alternate times and each time i had to mob them with my zapotecs and rods while he microed and killed my jags, i think its HI that is the problem with this strat, not LI (still pwned him though )


eso name: _XploSionS__

===quit due to the many many whinge and whine topics===
posted 01-21-07 03:08 PM EDT (US)     19 / 102  
i think this stradedgy would have trouble agianst a dutch hit and runner who realised that his settlers kill jaguars well.
posted 01-21-07 03:16 PM EDT (US)     20 / 102  

Quote:

You could see 23 strelets by 5:30


While strelets are potentially a problem, 11 rods can melee them to great effect, allowing jaguars to catch up to the strels and maces to rip em up.

I often see russians going 10 strel/5 cossacks nowadays too. And rodeleros are very effective at getting light infantry, and hit and runners can only go so far before they are trapped (usually). Barracks go down relatively fast. You don't really need coyotes because you have rods to kill early LI and janeys once the rods are dead. Whatever maces you have left work too.

Yes, a good LI+wall spam may be the only thing to stop this, so at least it isn't too OP.

@Roark: yes, you must chop the wood/get treasures if you don't start with 300 wood.

I suggest you try it before comparing it to a big button rush. Rods are a lot better than jags against hit and run, and it allows you to get more units quicker. Sure they take a while to ship, but the wait is well worth it. They are still as OP now as before, except they have less siege.

@ Ender: Do you think it's possible to do that coyote idea? It sounds good. The card is 9 zapotec though, if it makes a difference. I really think russia is too slow to pose much of a threat. Dutch isn't, but many FF and even if they mass skirms/8 pikes, your army is probably enough to overwhelm.


~·························································~
ESO: F1RÉ_FLÝ
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posted 01-21-07 03:31 PM EDT (US)     21 / 102  
Doesn't work vs iro on texas... So many damn warhuts...

Oh and put rods in cover mode. ES forgot to change it. So they have the same siege.


ESO : Pcfreak8
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is." -Jan L. A. van de Snepscheu
A pessimist is usually right and never disappointed.
Any history buff knows that nothing stops a cannon like a good uppercut. - BeatnikJoe

[This message has been edited by somme (edited 01-21-2007 @ 03:36 PM).]

posted 01-21-07 04:20 PM EDT (US)     22 / 102  
Wow you weren't lying when you said it was good. Nice job, well done.

armyballer - Another 3v3, this time my team is winning, (about an hour into it). One of the other team players admits defeat and resigns, then out of no where I get OOS message. I'm pissed, I again log onto agecommunity and see I have been given a LOSE. How did this happen?

AceOfKings - ender_ward hacked into your game and made it go OOS

Unban JamesLock
posted 01-21-07 04:58 PM EDT (US)     23 / 102  

Quote:

his settlers kill jaguars well

He would be putting his settlers in danger, and they don't actually kill jags THAT well. It takes a lot of shots to kill one.


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ESO: F1RÉ_FLÝ
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posted 01-21-07 05:25 PM EDT (US)     24 / 102  
*AH HEM*

F1RE FLY, i dont see my name in there...

posted 01-21-07 05:50 PM EDT (US)     25 / 102  
Oh fine. I kept putting it off...and I never got around to putting it in. Probably because I couldn't think of a reason to.

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ESO: F1RÉ_FLÝ
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