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Topic Subject: Ottoman NWNT Fast Fortress
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posted 03-01-07 07:02 AM EDT (US)   
Before we start, here is some interesting math.

1+2=3 (wtf?)

1+2+3 = 6 (whats your point?)

1+2+3...+9+10= 55, (hmmm)

1+2+3...+14+15 = 120 (mmmk.. but what this got to do with ottoman?)

What do ottoman complain the most about their civ?

"crap on maps with no water and no tp"

why?

"eco is crap"

ok. but why?

"vils train too slow, vil count too low"

really?

....enters the NWNT (pronounced nawnt)fast fortress, i think you know what "NWNT" means by now.

The first vil train speed upgrade is the best of the lot, it only cost 300 food and it takes off 8 seconds off each vil. it may not sound much but you have to realise it also means every next vil, is 8 seconds faster plus all the time you have saved before.

this is where the math at the top matters.

consider if you had this upgrade at the point where you had your 10th vils, how much benefit you you get out of it until the 25th vil?

120 x 8 = 960 VS, and this is only for the first 10 minutes.

thats about 770 food, 650 gold, or 480 wood.

"but it takes a lone time to pay back"

maybe, maybe not. its negative impact is very minimal because you do it while you fast fortress, you generally have to wait for your 700 gold anyway.

you get it paid back somewhere after the 10th "faster vil", from there on it is pure profit.

"but it needs a mosque"

you have been given a good 400 wood at the start of the game for this very purpose.

"Whaaat? you are telling me to build a mosque at AGE1!!!? are you a noob? it is the ultimate tried and true ottoman fact that building mosque in age1 is BAD"

what exactly are you going to use it for then? you cant build TP or dock, you realise if you dont use it, it just sits there and devalues. most likely you will keep it until age2. by which time it would have depreciated immensely.

bulding mosque will speed up your first shipment by 20 seconds, you get quite a bit res out of that too.

"you are not suggesting we get that vil train time upgrade in age1 are you?"

no i am not, you get it during aging. it usually completes while the 10th vils is being made, at 3:00.

this means you get the full amount of that 920 VS bonus i promised you as early as 13:00, even faster if you boom with second TC as soon as you hit fortress.

but what is truly amazing about the mosque is that you can get spys. this is extremely powerful for against the natives and civs who rely a lot on their explorer.

"ok, i still dont get it"

Alright, here is what i do:

- build a mosque and 2~3 houses in age1, send gold trickle card, age up 400 wood.

- after mosque built, GET A SPY, KILL THE ENEMY EXPLORER/WC, take all the cows on painted desert, take all the treasures on orinico.

- get the first vil train time upgrade as soon as you have another 300 food.

- build a barrack(or foundry) with aging wood to speed up shipment, if second shipment was ready because you got some XP treasure then dont bother. either way send 700 gold and FF.

- from there on its just a normal ottoman FF, except it is slightly faster than normal due to 700 gold arriving ealier than usual and my eco grows 17% faster. Oh, and i havent even touched my mines.

I played a few games with this approach, lost a few because spanish is till too damn good, and won a few which i think are largely contributed by my "better than before" frotress speed and economy.


DECK

a Janissary orientated deck, for against spanish

a Abus Gun orientated deck, for against dutch


REPLAYS

this one was against a dutch, who was happliy booming with his 4 banks.

this one was a british who was preparing for a rush that never arrived.

I guess one could argue i would have won both even if i did not use this approach, personally i felt empowered by my eco a lot better during the game, which given me more confidence , secondly I was in a position where if the game dragged on for another 10 minutes i would have done OK because of my matching eco.


this one is against a german, who expected a rush from me, then turned into a pike rush - not a great one. i repelled it with a fortress army. after which my eco was definitely better than his, out come is quite predictable.

this one is against the same guy, this time he FF-ed with me, as you can see, my FF time was considerably better even with the the mosque + vil training upgrade, my eco was also quite on par.

with my eco I was able to locally produced most of my jans, their build XP in turn got me shipments pretty quick as well. only 4 OP abus guns involved.

this one was against a french, he also thought i was going to rush, walled off his half quite early on(nice move - if I was really planned to rush then i'd be f$&*#d), lots of xbows and even raided me. soon realised what i was doing and went fortress as well. unfortunately xbows didnt pay off, all got slaughtered by spahis and hussars, 8 goons died fast to veteran janissaries.

after the big battle he resigned - might as well because i got 2 falcs arriving and was about to break his wall and the fort-being-built.


this one I actually lost, to a otto rush. afterwards i thought about it, the rush was not particularly strong, my biggest mistake was my deck, one 700 res give it away.

i have since included 700 wood, two towers and IB in my deck. maybe i should have 700 food and CM as well.

Best demo of this strat is here. I got the perfect map it was unbelievable - 100 gold 100 food 400 wood start.

I killed his WC 3 times! fat 300 xp and all the treasures. without his WC he was definitely slower, despite my several mistakes i still managed to defeat an IRO FPFF on a NWNT map.

[This message has been edited by ultimitsu (edited 03-08-2007 @ 03:50 AM).]

Replies:
posted 03-07-07 08:51 AM EDT (US)     26 / 45  
Never ever FF in an Otto mirror. Never do it, on no map. Not even on Texas.
posted 03-07-07 09:11 AM EDT (US)     27 / 45  
Ignore this post. Really.

[This message has been edited by Cherub Walker (edited 03-07-2007 @ 01:54 PM).]

posted 03-07-07 10:48 AM EDT (US)     28 / 45  
Cerby u boon come on msn and ima show u a rec that shows why you have to rush in an otto mirror.

FF is just not viable. And walling is useless vs jan rushes.. I mean what will you have when you age up anyway? 4 abus and your TC has something like 1000 HP left.

3 hus go in, abus dead, TC down, gg

posted 03-07-07 12:52 PM EDT (US)     29 / 45  

Quoted from Cerby:

voltinoob

Quoted from Cerby:

nubcake

I believe Voltiguer knows what he is talking about.

posted 03-07-07 01:55 PM EDT (US)     30 / 45  
@cyspur

For abbreviations, check The Official Guide on Being a Forumer

@CeRbY

You've already been warned once, so keep it nice, because the next step is a ban.


ESO - Walker

>> Napoleonic Era --> Visit their Homepage!
"Holy *****" > Thunder (Ensemble Studios)

Retired from AoE3. But I do play AoK HD in Steam now and then.
posted 03-07-07 04:25 PM EDT (US)     31 / 45  
"Never ever FF in an Otto mirror. Never do it, on no map. Not even on Texas. "

I think this is rock paper Scissors like matt said before.

I was hoping to beat his rush with my spahi + abus or something, but my limited otto mirror expereince i didnt think i'd have that much trouble beating the rush. All i needed was a better deck.

posted 03-07-07 06:55 PM EDT (US)     32 / 45  
1. Jan rush > spahi FF. Reasons should be pretty obvious...

2. Spahi FF > abus rush. This is a bit more tricky, but unless the spahi FF'er is massively outplayed he isn't gonna lose. Spahi rape abus pretty hard...

3. Abus rush > Jan rush. Any light inf rush is gonna beat any heavy inf rush lol, so long as said LI are used correctly.

The trouble is, both the FF and the jan rush look EXACTLY THE SAME until the first shipment is sent; therefore, in an otto mirror, the game is nearly completely luck. Sad, but true.

posted 03-07-07 08:37 PM EDT (US)     33 / 45  
the mosque slows down your rush. Even in the worst maps the best way to win is to rush.

ESO Nickname: Eisenhower
Favorite Age 3 character: Sahin the Falcon
Unban James Lock!
posted 03-08-07 02:03 AM EDT (US)     34 / 45  
Ulti, wouldn't it be an idea to, if you start with 100 gold, grab a beaver or two and build a spy in age 1, and then use it to kill the enemy explorer? The population isn't any problem, and he won't be able to grab treasures or scout. And you make the enemy VERY afraid, because now they expect masses of spies (since they can't scout they have no idea what you're actually up to).
posted 03-08-07 02:49 AM EDT (US)     35 / 45  

Quote:

v Ulti, wouldn't it be an idea to, if you start with 100 gold, grab a beaver or two and build a spy in age 1, and then use it to kill the enemy explorer?

OMG! this is so evil, and effective.

this is not that useful in bayou because the treasures are very hard to get, but is very useful in painted desert because of the cows, and very useful in orinico because of the treasures..

not to meantion he will have no means of knowing you are to FF, the benefit of this well pays back the 125 gold.

posted 03-08-07 03:11 AM EDT (US)     36 / 45  
Nice idea.

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posted 03-08-07 03:25 AM EDT (US)     37 / 45  
its not just nice, it is bloody awesome!

here it is! I got the perfect map it was unbelievable - 100 gold 100 food 400 wood start.

I killed his WC 3 times! fat 300 xp and all the treasures. without his WC he was definitely slower, despite my several mistakes i still managed to defeat an IRO FPFF on a NWNT map.

gg no re.

posted 03-08-07 08:17 AM EDT (US)     38 / 45  

Quote:

@cyspur
For abbreviations, check The Official Guide on Being a Forumer

cheers Cherub Walker

I found the VS in the The Official Guide on Being a Forumer, but not IB its not serious though thx. I initially had a look in the Quick reference guide "sticky" for these before posting my Q, thinking theyde be there

posted 03-08-07 10:52 AM EDT (US)     39 / 45  

Quote:

its not just nice, it is bloody awesome!

I just realised I destroyed my only hope to defeat Ottomans

Glad I could be of help though.

posted 03-09-07 00:11 AM EDT (US)     40 / 45  
nice strat ulti. ive always felt the mosque was the reason the early wood was given to ottos anyway.

An ender, a lot of people chose civs and strats to play based solely on what looks interesting and fun. not on what is the absolutely most effective in order to achieve and maintain some rating. frankly, i dont know how people can ever do the same old otto rushes over and over and over.

posted 03-09-07 00:49 AM EDT (US)     41 / 45  
^^^ that , for me, it ABSOLUTLY TRUE.
i get SO BORED, of just slik road rush ot jannie rush.
so i go for otto FF, for dutch, for rusian for british for aztec and for sioux.
I play this game to have ->FUN<- cuase this is A GAME.
so im always changing strats and civ, so i dont get bored with one strat.

[This message has been edited by Eicho (edited 03-09-2007 @ 00:50 AM).]

posted 03-09-07 10:15 PM EDT (US)     42 / 45  
well heres a thought ulti and you others for the otto mirror matches on maps with tps. If you get the 100 gold start which will allow a spy to take out native WCs why cant it be used to take out the otto explorer also? Probably would be hard to cetch him before he builds the first tp but should be easy to stop him from building a 2nd. Then he will have to either pay 100 gold or rescue the explorer with shipped jans and protect him from the spy while the explorer builds the next tp or build the tp with vills. Any and all of those will slow down a little to a lot a tp fueled otto rush.
posted 03-10-07 02:44 AM EDT (US)     43 / 45  
unfortunately on maps with TP, you are much better to spend that wood on TP itself than mosque, by the time you get agent out, he already has got 1 TP, which you cant take out with just an agent.

he only needs 1 TP in age1 anyway, after you killed him, he can just leave him there, then send 5 jans once he aged and have the 5 jans cover the explorer while he build more.

but, if you can get agent out by the time he finishes 1st TP, then you have scored big, you can take down the half built TP, which will cost him huge amount of wood.

posted 03-10-07 08:42 AM EDT (US)     44 / 45  
I like the sound of that strat alot. Personally tho id ship 3 vills but coin tricle and eco thery cards are good.

In long run. I wounder tho perhapps if u ship nothing age 1. In age 2 ship 700 coin 700 food and use the food for 2 upgrades from church. hat shouldent take to long to get back what u lost from not doing coin trckle or 3 vills. Might be worth a try.

posted 03-10-07 11:23 AM EDT (US)     45 / 45  
ya, i suppose its a big gamble. if the agent can get the explorer before the first tp is completed then its almost gg from that point. If not then the only advantage is slowing up the acquisition of the 2nd tp.
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