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Topic Subject: The Tashunke Shank: A New Hope
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posted 03-09-07 01:18 AM EDT (US)   
Let me first start off by welcoming you all to another one of my guides, I know they can get long and boring so lets take this time to go make a sandwich or some popcorn.

Ok onto my strategy…

So Recently I went on a 24 game win streak using my Sioux Strategy Guide, I even made it to as high as 2100 cuetech, But then tragically people like Ender ward and Sephiroth decided to Trample on me with Lame strategies, After a series of Loss’s to the Iroquios, Spain, Otto, Dutch. I stopped and thought. “Wow. What happened?!”
At this point I lost COMPLETE faith in my Sioux playing ability and switched to Aztec for some time. But first I needed some build orders.. So what did I do? I did what every self respecting strat copy cat does, Look at someone else’s build order.
So I strolled on over to Beatnik Joe’s strategy guide. I heard he had created some OP loin cloth guys and I thought I might check it out. Once I read through the strat I was like “What! That’s so not possible..” but then I watched the recordings and I realized something… Loin cloth guys are OP!

So I went back to the drawing board and thought for awhile till I came up with a problem. Why do Aztec only get a loin cloth guy? I meen look at this guy! He looks like he could snap you in half if he had the chance!


I searched and searched for another Loin cloth guy, but their stealth ability made them hard to come by. I asked what seemed like thousands of people! Until finally I realized something.. Tashunke Prowlers were the closest I could find to loin cloths…

“TASHUNKE PROWLERS!! You’ve got to be kidding me!!” You scream at me. But oh no my friend, I am not kidding you. These guys are sooo much better then the regular loin cloth men, Check this out.

Not only does my guy come with the patented Loin cloth,

But he also gets a Shirt and pants! This is more of a nerf for the ladies, No more hot bodies sorry girls...

And it doesn’t stop there.. He also gets.. A HORSE! Oh yes, That’s right Mr. loin cloth man, your years of walking around on this earth are over my friend! Say hello to the Opness of a horse!

So what else is new you say, So he’s on a horse big deal.. Well guess what my friend, not only is he on a horse… but he also carries a stick! That’s right! Fresh from the ground the Indians have now adapted to using weapons instead of bludgeoning each other to death with their fists.

But that’s not all! Remember, a Certain black trench coat figure can easily murder a scout.
But with these new and improved clothes/horses/sticks the Indians have retribution!
After looking at these plain hard facts I was astounded by what I had seen
“The Indians have found a way to become more OP!” I thought to myself.

..

Ok on to the Serious parts of my strat.

The Shunke Shank
By Smear

As we all know Sioux have this horrible unit called the Tashunke Prowler. Although ES refuses to boost them in any way shape or form. I have created a strat that will utilize the strengths of the Tashunke to their fullest. But first.. “What are their strengths?” You ask me. Well lets talk about that..

Strengths
~Tashunke attack and Hp stack when grouped together, This means that the more Tashunke you have, the more attack and HP they get. The most you can get is 12 without the card and 18 with the card. (Marauders)
~Can go into stealth mode.
~Has a 2 area attack

And of course, The (apparently) Overwhelming weaknesses of a Tashunke that make them under-rated.

Weaknesses
~Cost to much
~Are not good for raiding as axe are better.
~Are completely UP when not massed together.

Now my opinions on the matter..

In My Opinion: Strengths
~Tashunke are VERY good when massed together and have the 3 cav upgrades, not to mention the farm upgrade and the support card upgrade.
~The 2 area is what makes them OP after they get the card boosts, if it wasn’t for this area attack then I would completely agree with everyone and say they are UP, In fact I wouldn’t even be writing this right now.
~Stealth mode is completely OP when used correctly.. Picture this.

Your enemy is moving to attack you, they must move across the map to get to you.. You place your Tashunke in the middle of the map at a strategic crossing. They move all their anti cav forward in preparedness for your cavalry, you let them pass…
Then his Light infantry comes by and just as they are on the side of his anti cav..
YOU ATTACK!
Bam! In one quick swing of every Tashunke’s stick, most (if not all) of their light infantry is down and out, at this point you run away out of their LOS and put stealth back on. They will be in a shamble and retreat thinking they cant take your base now, But oh no my friend we don’t let them retreat, we move our Tashunke IN FRONT of his pikes in stealth mode, BLOCKING his path back to his base!
Once your Tashunke are in the middle of his pikes then start swinging those sticks! At least half of his pikes will be knocked out before he realizes what’s going on.
At this point, Unless he has turtled or has a vastly superior eco to you, which is near impossible at 10 minutes, (by vastly I meen 300 score compared to your 130ish) Then you should have a relatively easy time taking out any villagers he has outside his base, not to mention taking out his tc/houses.

In My Opinion: Weaknesses
~Tashunke do cost a lot, but they are not over the top pricey, You can get all 18 of them around 11 minutes, That’s a pure Tashunke ff though, And is very succeptable to a rush, I will get to a more rush proof one.
~As for raiding, Most people do not realize this, They are not ment to be used as raiders, I know I know, “ES said blah blah blah” but seriously, when was the last time we listened to ES? Tashunke are supposed to be used as precision strike units who’s main job is to take out a whole bunch of units without losing many themselves. They can double as raiders too but only as shock and ah raiders.
~Yes they suck when you only use one of them, but let me see.. when was the last time you used one axe? Or 1 wakina? Or even 1 cuir? Many things suck when not massed, the only things that don’t are artillery

Alright so if your still with me after all of these “shortcomings” then lets proceed to a strategy.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As we all know, a FF is extremely susceptible to a rush, now let’s add in the fact that we want 18 Tashunke as fast as you can with full upgrades, there is ABSOLUTLY NO WAY YOU CAN DO THIS, without being attacked and destroyed. A pure Tashunke FF takes at least 11 minutes, the same time as an ottoman FI. Now I’ll admit that there are SOME circumstances where a Sioux “Fast “Industrial”” (were not really going industrial its just a reference to the ottoman FI) where a Sioux FI is Logical, Like if your facing a booming civ that you KNOW will sit back and boom/turtle. But lets face it.. Now-a-days almost nobody will defend for 11 minutes. So what we need is a strat. that gives us a proper defense, Eventually will get us to fortress, and will have ~18 prowlers by 15 minutes with full upgrades. First though we must know which cards we will need.


Necessary cards:
~ 3 Vills = For obvious Reasons
~ 700 gold = For aging to Fortress
~ Cavalry Damage = Without This the Tashunke will be extremely UP
~ Cavalry Hit points = Same as Cav. Damage
~ Cavalry Combat = Same as Cav. HP
~ 1k food = For a necessary eco boost when spamming Tashunke
~ 1k wood = For wood so you can research new years festival
~ Marauders = Which is better? 12 tashunke? Or 18 tashunke?

Good Support Cards:
~ 700 Food = If they rush and you need some extra food fast, this is the way to go
~ 700 Wood = If you are looking at a pro-longed colonial conflict sending 700w for cetans always helps
~ 4 Axe = A must if they are rushing
~ Both Tp upgrade cards = Very good cards late game, Always strikes fear into Europeans when a native builds tp’s right in their base during a battle.
~ Battlefield construction = Same as both tp upgrades except this time, the fear is doubled because any of the wakina fighting can make the tp’s, no villagers = OP
~ 9 wakina = If you get to fort and need an army of wakina’s fast, or just need some anti anti cav for when you attack
~ Dakota Support = Tashunke are not Fully OP unless you Send this card, 1k gold for 5 tashunke and 25 percent HP boost is not bad…
~ Command Skill = You might as well give yourself another reason to keep that warchief close/alive
~ 15 buffalo = Always a must have, If your hunt screwed or need an easy source of food
~ 3 dog soldiers = A good way to stop a ff attack/Mix in with Tashunke to absorb damage

The Anti-Rush Tashunke Shank

Ok now that you have your deck set, lets move on to the strat. This works well vs almost any civ as it is basically a Sioux defensive boom to fortress, Only use if you know your opponent is going to rush, If your opponent is FF then you FF too, Use my second Tashunke strat which is farther down.

Discovery Age:
~Send warchief to go OP treasure hunting, Gather as many treasures as you can.
~15 villager age, Use 400 wood

Transition:
~ Move 3 villagers to wood
~Once you have enough for a warhut make a warhut, If you have to wait til colonial to get the wood then this is fine, just get it up ASAP once in colonial.

Colonial:
~Collect 400 wood
~Queue a couple villagers
~Send 4 axe, They can be used to raid or if your enemy is rushing w/o any pikes/muskets use on their infantry
~With your warhut Queue as many cetan as you can
~Once you have around 15 then stop making them and work on getting to fortress, if you have to switch villagers off of things then do it, Obviously at this point you would take villagers off wood and put on food. No need for gold villagers unless you have less then 300 gold.
~If your enemy has rushed, Use extreme micro to beat him, If by some chance you are beaten then keep your villagers where they were for a cetan spam, This is only IF you are in dire need to survive.
~If on the other hand your opponent has opted to hem you in and not let you hunt, then send 15 buffalo as next card, if you have safe hunts then don’t bother yet
~Keep making villagers
~Once you start moving your villagers to gather for a fortress age, switch a couple villagers to make a firepit and have them use the fertility dance.
~Send 700 gold
~At this point you should have all villagers but 3 on food, unless your short gold. And a couple on firepit.
~Age to fort using the wise women, There is no need to use the fast age since if you have made it this far you should have some type of army to defend yourself during your age. 20 percent to hunting can really help too.

Transition to Fortress:
~Build a market
~Switch a little over half of your villagers to coin, You want to have at least 500 by the time you age with more coming.
~Firepit to exp. dance

Fortress:
~Send 1k wood, you will use 500 on new years festival, 200 on a stable and the rest goes towards a second tc.
~Make some wakina, If you have your villagers allocated right you can make wakina and still have 500 food and coin by the time your 1k wood arrives.
~Keep making villagers during this time. Firepit on fertility dance.
~When 1k wood arrives collect it and research the New years festival at your market, This should give you around 3 shipments,
~The first shipment to send is 1k food, Tashunke are very food heavy and to compensate send 1k food and switch most of your villagers to gold for that 75 gold cost.
~Make a corral
~Send Cav Combat and Cav Attack
~Queue as many Tashunke as you can, When 1k food arrives collect it asap so that you never run short on food when spamming Tashunke.

At this point it is completely up to you what you do, You can attack or raid or wait til you have all upgrades for Tashunke and then attack, Just make sure you get an advantage on your enemy, you don’t want to sit back and let him boom while you have a perfectly useful army at your disposal.

Some Tips:
~Eventualy you will want to send marauders and the Tashunke support card, and if the game goes late enough or you have a farm for some reason get the farm Big button
~Get a second tc asap and put a couple villagers on firepit, you should be able to boom at the same time as doing all the Tashunke upgrades.
~Spam wakina! Don’t forget, its easy to get caught up looking at these OP Tashunke creatures and your eco will start to pile up, Keep making wakina, and most importantly, USE THEM! What good is a unit if you don’t use them?
~By 15 minutes you should have at least 12 Tashunke with most of their upgrades and an army of cetan/wakina for support, Choose what you will to do with them.

Conclusion:
~This strat can be used vs all civs, IF they are rushing you, If they are FF then you should use my FF strat, which is next.
~Btw, None of these strats should be used vs Dutch, Halbs + Ruyters + Cannon = GG, its hard enough to counter as it is let alone using a strat that requires precise micro skills.

Recorded Games:
~ Game vs an Aztec on Hispaniola, shows some mace getting pwnd
http://www.savefile.com/files/540281

The Delayed Tashunke Shank

Imo this is the most viable of all these strats, If your opponent is Fast fortressing, go for a regular FF and then bring in Tashunke and an OP eco. Works really well. Except vs dutch..

Discovery Age:
~Basic 15 villagers age using 400 wood

Transition:
Collect 300 gold, Whether you do this by collecting treasures or by mining it is up to you, but just make sure you have 300 when you age.

Colonial:
~Make 1 or 2 villagers depending on how much food you have
~Ship 700 gold
~Make a tp and a warhut using your age up wood
~Age with 4 axe riders when you can, Or use fast poli if your gona be attacked before u can age

Transition:
~Switch about 6 villager to gold, rest on food

Fortress:
~Immediately raid with 4 axe and wc
~Send 5 axe
~Spam out 15 wakina for defence
~Keep raiding
~Send 1k wood
~Send 1k food
~When it arrives make a market and get the New years Festival bb
~Send Cav Combat/Cav attack/ and the last shipment is up to you, dependin on situation.
~Switch most of villagers to gold so you can spam Tashunke
~You should have around 10 tashunke at 12 minutes with all 18 coming within another 1:30, From here you can attack/raid/boom anything you can think of.

Some Tips:
~Only use this if you know your opponent is going to FF
~Remember, the 15 wakina are for DEFENCE only go on offence if you think you can take him with 9 axe and 15 wakina *laughs* But yea, use your army for defense while you spam the necessary cards for OP Tashunke.

Recorded Games:
~Strat is vs an Iro who ends up turtaling after i whipe out his army, Had to go industrial to be able to beat him
http://www.savefile.com/files/544228

The Pure Tashunke FF

Now what do you do vs civs that will boom/turtle? Go for the Pure Tashunke FF of course, 18 tashunke with the eco to support wakina spam/firepit boom by 12 minutes. I like to compare this strat to the Ottoman FI because it takes the same amount of time, Although you don’t actually go to industrial.

Discovery:
~Typical 15 villager age, use the Messenger

Transition:
~Gather your 300 gold

Colonial:
~Send 700 gold
~Make a villager or two depending on food allotment
~Age to Fortress using the 800 wood poli

Transition:
~8 villas on gold, rest on food
~Build a market during age up

Fortress:
~Collect 800 wood
~Send 1k food
~Build a stable and spam tashunke
~Research New years festival once you have enough gold/wood
~Keep most of your eco on gold since the 1k food shipment can support a bit of your Tashunke spammage
~Send cav combat/cav attack/marauders
~Keep spamming Tashunke as best as you can, You should get all 18 by 13 minutes
~Send 1k wood for another tc and a firepit

Some Tips:
~At this point if your opponent is booming then go attack him and raid him and stuff, your force is more then enough to take out any type of unit he might be making, even take out a house if u can, Tashunke have some good siege.
~If he managed to make an army to attack you, then use your brain, if his army is all Li like skirms and lb, then attack it, if he has a couple pikes and some lb/skirms, then whipe out the pikes and move on to the Li. But if he has A LOT of pikes then run away. Go into stealth and wait for him to attack because he will think you have the upper hand.
~If he does not attack then try to stay up with his boom, you should be able to get 3 tc’s and keep constant production by sending cards like 15 buffalo and such.
~Eventually you will want to send the Tashunke Support card and get the farm upgrade, plus the last hp upgrade.

Recorded Games:
~Sioux vs Brits on Painted desert, shows some OP Shunke Laming
http://www.savefile.com/files/540305

Some Helpful Tactics

~When your Tashunke are not in use or you have ~10 and are making more for a total of 18, then put your Tashunke to good use. Stealth them and put them in a strategic position between your base and your opponent, Not only will you know when he attacks but like in the situation I described earlier, A good precision strike at his Light infantry can completely destroy his attack.
~If the game goes way late, send the 2 tp cards and the battlefield construction. You will be surprised how well this helps late game when you are in the middle of a battle and your wakina can build some tps to aid you.
~Another trick is to send a bunch of axe/Tashunke on a raid into his main base and take out his starting tc using the siege dance, This eliminates his tc radius protection and will allow you to build tps INSIDE his base while you are attacking! DO NOT underestimate this tactic, it can completely turn the tide if your opponent decides to turtle, Instead of making a single breach, having your attack collapse and falling back, and then having the wall repaired, you can now breach the wall, build some tps, and then defend your forward position so that your opponent will have to be the one retreating into his base or face losing his army.

In Conclusion

So I Hope you guys liked this strat, I had fun making it, I never woulda DREAMED that Tashunke could be used this well, And i love seeing people first reactions, "WTF I GOT PWNT BY TASHUNKE!!!" The steriotype surrounding them is amazing if you ask me..

As always.. If you have any comment/criticisms/suggestions they would be appreciated like always. I still need more records and hopefully this weekend I can get some but until then you will just have to live with 2.

I will be adding more to this strat..


"Smear's WarChief tumbles through the stage, leaps off of it right onto Mokon's car in front of the stage."
Full Guides:
~Sioux Survival Guide: The Last Stand
~The Tashunke Shank: A New Hope
Mini Guides:
~Sioux vs French: Napoleons Downfall

[This message has been edited by Smear (edited 03-10-2007 @ 02:58 PM).]

Replies:
posted 03-10-07 05:18 AM EDT (US)     26 / 99  
I just ran a test

18 tash = 4050 res + 1 card = 5050 res

vs

25 vet jan (3525 res)
11 vet abus (2050 res)
---------------------
5570 res


Sneaking up to the front of the jans and then attacking does not work -- you lose.

Sneaking up, surrounding the Jan/Abus and then attacking does work. I was able to come away with 11 Tash after it was over.


agecommunity quote of the month Ok i have payed for this game for al my moneythat i get in a month so when i go online isee these 9 year old kids that beat me that have played for 2 weeks and i have played since release of vanilla so im pretty pissed of that es dosent want to do anything about the balance of the game.
posted 03-10-07 06:12 AM EDT (US)     27 / 99  
And that is something you won't be able to do with axe riders. It will also reduce hit n run with abus.

@ Ulti:

Quoted from Mark Aurel:

For example: If you have 12 unupgraded prowlers, their hp will each be 263. If you upgrade the prowlers with the cavalry combat card, cavalry hp card, and and the Sioux big button tech at the farm, their base hp will be 238 each -- and when they're 12 together, they'll each have 368 hp. If you take the New Ways card and get cavalry breastplate, along with the Tashunke support card, you can get them up to 297 base hp, or 461 each for 12 (550 each for 18).

As you can see, tashunkes improve more from upgrade cards than normal cav, therefore it is more important to send the upgrade cards. Also, watch most sioux expert recs and they DO send the upgrade cards because they DO make a difference in a 'tight' game.

Upgrades are what makes axe riders so good, and without them, they're just plain average really.


Previously known as MoNo Ager

[This message has been edited by George_uk (edited 03-10-2007 @ 07:18 AM).]

posted 03-10-07 06:54 AM EDT (US)     28 / 99  
If you want a unit to beat abus just use DS+warchief...

Mass wakinas takes care of anything else.

posted 03-10-07 07:19 AM EDT (US)     29 / 99  
But DS are in limited supply. Tashunkes are not (well 18), but you can get them back fairly quickly.

Besides, tashunkes have area damage, which is an especially good combination with the stealth, sneak up and put everything in place. As jaafits test shows.


Previously known as MoNo Ager

[This message has been edited by George_uk (edited 03-10-2007 @ 07:46 AM).]

posted 03-10-07 11:31 AM EDT (US)     30 / 99  
The more they are, the most they kill...

Does someone know what is the increase rate ?

posted 03-10-07 12:14 PM EDT (US)     31 / 99  
why are the jans and abus upgraded to vet? if they rush you and you do the cetan block, then you will be in fortress before them imo. although maybe idk...

I love you guys, im not smart enough to do any of these calculations thanks so much ♥


"Smear's WarChief tumbles through the stage, leaps off of it right onto Mokon's car in front of the stage."
Full Guides:
~Sioux Survival Guide: The Last Stand
~The Tashunke Shank: A New Hope
Mini Guides:
~Sioux vs French: Napoleons Downfall
posted 03-10-07 12:15 PM EDT (US)     32 / 99  
Clicky here to find out.

Previously known as MoNo Ager
posted 03-10-07 02:59 PM EDT (US)     33 / 99  
Added a game vs an iro. He ended up turtaling so you only get to see the tashunke used in one battle pwning some forest prowlers but then dam great houses start to pick me off..

"Smear's WarChief tumbles through the stage, leaps off of it right onto Mokon's car in front of the stage."
Full Guides:
~Sioux Survival Guide: The Last Stand
~The Tashunke Shank: A New Hope
Mini Guides:
~Sioux vs French: Napoleons Downfall
posted 03-10-07 04:48 PM EDT (US)     34 / 99  
I tried watching but I get rec invalid?

Previously known as MoNo Ager
posted 03-10-07 05:06 PM EDT (US)     35 / 99  
hmm.. works fine for me, you sure u have the right extension?

"Smear's WarChief tumbles through the stage, leaps off of it right onto Mokon's car in front of the stage."
Full Guides:
~Sioux Survival Guide: The Last Stand
~The Tashunke Shank: A New Hope
Mini Guides:
~Sioux vs French: Napoleons Downfall
posted 03-10-07 05:32 PM EDT (US)     36 / 99  
Okay I was skeptical at first but now I'm sold. Tash are great.

Last night i was playing vs a russian who turtled with a huge wall and blockhouses. Well of course I boomed and raided with tash. The funny part about it was how confused he was, cause he had men at the trade route hole in his wall, blockhouses everywhere, and after the 4th/5th raid he says "I don't understand. How are you getting in my base??" rofl

Then today I played vs a french guy who I tried to axe raid in colonial but without success. he comes into my base with cuir/skirm and just about wipes me out but bow rider/wakina save me. Then he leaves and is stockpiling skirms so I go for it, sending +50% build limit and get about 14 of them.

At this point I was completely outplayed, out-ecoed, behind in military, little map control. Then the skirms march in. Alone.

It took about 8 seconds for 14 tash to destroy 40 skirms.

"Haker" "f-in noob" "you must hack! wtf your units appear out of nowhere." LOL He said all those things. And this is a PR 33 not someone fresh to TWC. Just goes to show how underused tash are.


agecommunity quote of the month Ok i have payed for this game for al my moneythat i get in a month so when i go online isee these 9 year old kids that beat me that have played for 2 weeks and i have played since release of vanilla so im pretty pissed of that es dosent want to do anything about the balance of the game.
posted 03-10-07 05:59 PM EDT (US)     37 / 99  
Yeah, Tash = uber axe riders really. They have a higher strategic value. I'll try the rec again.

Previously known as MoNo Ager
posted 03-10-07 06:38 PM EDT (US)     38 / 99  

Quote:

As you can see, tashunkes improve more from upgrade cards than normal cav, therefore it is more important to send the upgrade cards.

mm... why do they get more improvement than other cavalry? is it because they improve on age3 values? but one can equally argue their age3 stats are sub par to axe raider's age2 stats, and they dont get the first +25% from elite upgrade.

Also, watch most sioux expert recs and they DO send the upgrade cards because they DO make a difference in a 'tight' game.

I play a lot of sioux, and i do sent upgrades too.

but that is through out the course of the game, i dont generally get a chance to send cav combat for the first 10 minutes of the game, let alone 4 cards.

Quote:

Upgrades are what makes axe riders so good, and without them, they're just plain average really.

there is nothing so good about axe raiders, they are not even better than british hussars, i'd take lancer or cuir over axe any day of the week.

they are used a lot by sioux players because we have no choice. other civs use falc for anti-LI, use culvarin for anti-falc, sioux kinda have to rely on axe for almost everything.

========


I think this thread is great, it shows us the power of a unit we all thought was completely useless - there are definitely some use in these units.

however, i think they are such a late game unit - more intended for late fortress or mid industrial, one can not apply their use in a strat where you plan to use them right from the start, it would be a bit like a strat of how to get OP cuirs in late game.

posted 03-10-07 06:51 PM EDT (US)     39 / 99  
Why did you copy a Star Wars' title?

lol im jumby
posted 03-10-07 07:01 PM EDT (US)     40 / 99  
Ok the rec worked, GJ.

Why would you take lancers? Upgraded axe riders deal nearly as much damage to infantry as lancers except are better vs everything else.

IMO late game AR > lifeguards. You could argue, british have upgrades for their hussars too, but realistically, which brit uses them? Also axe riders have 10% extra hitpoints from the big button, and a 20% HP increase with a card.

You can't really compare AR with cuirs, they're a different class (even if not so in the game files). It's like comparing falcs with HC.

Tashunkes are much cheaper than cuirs so aren't anywhere near as hard to make as them. The high requirement of shipments is what the market big button is used for. The price is quite high 1500resources, you get 3 IMO essential cards, which can give you the extra edge in battle. If you can pull through, upgraded tashunkes in fortress > upgraded tashunkes in industrial.

Besides, only the pure tashunke strat focuses on getting them asap, the others you get them around 13-15 mins ish. Thats past FF standard attack and rush obviously so is going late game.


Previously known as MoNo Ager
posted 03-10-07 07:20 PM EDT (US)     41 / 99  

Quote:

Why would you take lancers? Upgraded axe riders deal nearly as much damage to infantry as lancers except are better vs everything else

they cost only slightly more yet has about 50% more ranged HP, do about twice as much damage (considering i'd send x4 vs infantry card for your extra 20% hp card).

and they get upgrades on veteran stats.

Quote:

IMO late game AR > lifeguards. You could argue, british have upgrades for their hussars too, but realistically, which brit uses them? Also axe riders have 10% extra hitpoints from the big button, and a 20% HP increase with a card.

I use them. I even use hussars as dutch without extra 2 cards and RG.

hussars are already better than axe 1v1 head on (28% more hp, 16.7% less attack), they get same 3 combat card, for your big button 10% they get it in RG, for your 20% brit can get one of their many excellent eco card to make hussars cheaper than axe.

the best british player - naturepheonix uses a lot of hussars.


Quote:

Tashunkes are much cheaper than cuirs so aren't anywhere near as hard to make as them. The high requirement of shipments is what the market big button is used for. The price is quite high 1500resources, you get 3 IMO essential cards, which can give you the extra edge in battle. If you can pull through, upgraded tashunkes in fortress > upgraded tashunkes in industrial.

cuirs are much stronger than tashunkes, you'd be kidding yourself if you'd think tashunkes are in the same class. cuirs can be very powerful even if there is just 1 of them. tashunkes arent any good once the numebrs fall to below 5~6.

that big button is crap, it is slightly better than mercantilism (which sucks at 1500 gold) but still. sure you get 3 shipments faster, but your every next shipment is slower than they would have been. the overall benefit doesnt justify 1500 res.

posted 03-10-07 08:32 PM EDT (US)     42 / 99  
Just finished a game where I did a bit of axe rider colonial to Tashunke fortress, and the French and Russia strelet/musket/cuir/skirms had no idea what hit them.

18 of them with attack dance going and their 3 combat cards makes them an incredibly overpowered unit in fortress, they've got the same HP as a vet cuir but the attack of an imperial cuir and not to mention a huge speed bonus if you get your warchief in them.

I wish I had recorded the game cause I stealthed into their base after dropped a TC in 6 seconds (2 throws) and then proceeded to kill 50 villagers in less than 10 seconds.

I'm really glad Smear brought them up in general discussion, before I just looked at them and went "Well they're like really shitty cuirs" but looking into their bonus's from their combat cards, they're incredibly powerfull units and much cheaper than a cuir too

Found my new favorite raider in intense games (But theyll never replace my imperial opri raids hehe )


Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan

[This message has been edited by LordKivlov (edited 03-10-2007 @ 08:32 PM).]

posted 03-10-07 08:39 PM EDT (US)     43 / 99  
holy crap, 18 tashuke with upgrades can kill 30 pikes easily without being seen right away.

too bad for attack-move

other wise great strat smear, i cant wait for people to start saying:

TASHUKE OP!!!

JK


quoted from jafit talking smack about ender in regards to the abus nerf: "He's probably in a fetal position on the floor holding an action figure abus gun."

[This message has been edited by steve09 (edited 03-11-2007 @ 10:37 AM).]

posted 03-10-07 08:56 PM EDT (US)     44 / 99  

Quote:

Why did you copy a Star Wars' title?

Because nobody used tashunke and now alot of people are so its like a new hope for sioux players.

@steve, iv coined the fraze "tashunke are OP" many times in my games before beat ya to it bud.

also. realistically i dont know anyone who uses attack move, my friend who is a colonel even said "what the hell is attack move?" so i told him and hes like "what a useless tactic"

@ultamisu and george

Guys guys stop comparing hussars to axe, there two different units. Thats like this guy on my tashunke guide at GR, he's comparing dog soldiers to tashunke. its like dudes. there two different units. with two different purposes. and even though they are similair, of course one is better then the other,

in this case sioux dont get hussar, so what are we sposed to do? make axe and tashunke
:]


"Smear's WarChief tumbles through the stage, leaps off of it right onto Mokon's car in front of the stage."
Full Guides:
~Sioux Survival Guide: The Last Stand
~The Tashunke Shank: A New Hope
Mini Guides:
~Sioux vs French: Napoleons Downfall
posted 03-11-07 12:26 PM EDT (US)     45 / 99  

Quote:

they cost only slightly more yet has about 50% more ranged HP, do about twice as much damage (considering i'd send x4 vs infantry card for your extra 20% hp card).

But they suck vs everything else. Which is fine, because they're supposed to specialised.

Quote:

hussars are already better than axe 1v1 head on (28% more hp, 16.7% less attack), they get same 3 combat card, for your big button 10% they get it in RG, for your 20% brit can get one of their many excellent eco card to make hussars cheaper than axe.

1v1 hussars beat axe riders. But hussars cost more. And by the way, Sioux have a card which make axe riders (all cav infact) 10% cheaper. @ smear, I know they are different units, but with the available upgrades, I'd rather have axe riders compared to hussars.

Quote:

the best british player - naturepheonix uses a lot of hussars.

lol ok, and the best Sioux players use a lot of Axe riders...

Quote:

cuirs are much stronger than tashunkes, you'd be kidding yourself if you'd think tashunkes are in the same class. cuirs can be very powerful even if there is just 1 of them. tashunkes arent any good once the numebrs fall to below 5~6.

I never stated that tashunkes are in the same class as cuirs :S. My comment on being much cheaper than tashunkes is because you said something along the lines of "its like trying to mass cuirs earlier on".

Yes but in certain situations it does. For example sending 300 resource crates is almost always a bad decision. But in some strats it's a good thing.

I don't want to argue and fill the topic with offtopic stuff. If you want to carry it on further, start a topic called Lancers vs Hussars vs Axe riders or something. Though lancers really have a different purpose.


Previously known as MoNo Ager
posted 03-11-07 01:27 PM EDT (US)     46 / 99  

Quote:

But they(lancer) suck vs everything else. Which is fine, because they're supposed to specialised.

thats what people used to say, but 15 month has gone past and most should have realised by now : you should use other units for everything else.

and truth is, lancers do OK against artillery and raiding, not as good as other cav but they get the job done.

Quote:

1v1 hussars beat axe riders. But hussars cost more. And by the way, Sioux have a card which make axe riders (all cav infact) 10% cheaper. @ smear, I know they are different units, but with the available upgrades, I'd rather have axe riders compared to hussars.

yes i realise hussar cost slight more.

my point being for your extra axe raider boost card brit can send as eco card to make hussars cheaper. thus overall they are still more cost effective.

for your -10% cav cost brit can sent yet another eco card which boost any given res by 20%.

Quote:

lol ok, and the best Sioux players use a lot of Axe riders...


not just the best siocu - all sioxu do that (I had stated in my first post in this thread).

again the reason for that is not axe is great but sioux has no alternative.

Quote:

I never stated that tashunkes are in the same class as cuirs :S. My comment on being much cheaper than tashunkes is because you said something along the lines of "its like trying to mass cuirs earlier on".

let clarify n my points:

1, cuirassier is a better unit, than both tashunke and axe.

2, unlike tashuke, cuirs can be useful even in small numbers.

posted 03-11-07 01:42 PM EDT (US)     47 / 99  
Ok, well thats settled then. I am definitely aware that cuirs are better units, but tashunkes also have their advantage, of stealth. I think tashunkes can make much more use of their stealth function than jag knights or prowlers.

Cost comparison: for the price of 18 tashunkes you can make 12 cuirs.

In fortress I would probably take 18 tashunkes, but after that I would probably go for cuirs.


Previously known as MoNo Ager

[This message has been edited by George_uk (edited 03-11-2007 @ 01:43 PM).]

posted 03-11-07 03:55 PM EDT (US)     48 / 99  
Maybe you should put this in your Sioux guide, to have it all in one place.
posted 03-11-07 04:25 PM EDT (US)     49 / 99  
I'll do it eventually, but the tashunke shank is 3 different types of strats and bo's so its more of a guide on its own, if i put it into my sioux guide then I'll have to edit it down to just the bo's and maybe the tactics.

"Smear's WarChief tumbles through the stage, leaps off of it right onto Mokon's car in front of the stage."
Full Guides:
~Sioux Survival Guide: The Last Stand
~The Tashunke Shank: A New Hope
Mini Guides:
~Sioux vs French: Napoleons Downfall
posted 03-11-07 05:38 PM EDT (US)     50 / 99  
I'm sorry, but how the hell does Sioux get owned by Otto? Ottos biggest weakness is a good raider, which is Sioux. Then you have RR, which own Ottos altogether, except for abus. That will change next patch for sure ... but until then you still have one of the best melee cav in the game.

Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
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