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Topic Subject: Guns and Biers
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posted 04-18-07 07:00 PM EDT (US)   
Intro

This strategy was originally done after TWC 1.03 fixed some german bugs. Today german is top tier so few are looking at alternatives to the normal xbow rush or semi-ff. with FP balancing things a bit, this strategy will beome more useful.

So here I present you a German Saloon Merc based strategy Ė Guns and Biers.

German Mercenary Uniqueness

Mercenary Combat card boosts a huge 20% to all mercenaries. Most donít realise how powerful it is, if you consider mercenaries are equivalent of FU imperial units, this 20% is added to their fullest current stats, that is equivalent of +25% of normal unitís stats.

On top of that, German has more mercenaries in shipments than anyone else, allowing them to make the most use of their mercs.

How you play out this strategy, greatly depends on which merc you get. Best case scenario is getting 2 decent mercs of different type. Worst case is getting 2 useless ones. In between there are many possible combinations, sometimes you may get 2 mercs of the same type thus one will become redundant.





Game Flow

Standard age1 with 17~18 vils, age up to 400w. Chop wood for a TP in transition. Build a saloon + 2 houses with 400 age up wood, ship 3 SW. Fixed BO stops here.

You now check out the saloon mercs, and you will have to make some decisions, because the mercs you get will affect whether you should get merc combat card and whether you should take on this strategy, you also have to adjust your card order accordingly.

Anyway, the ideal situation is reaching fortress reasonably fast, at around 7:00 using Exile prince, or 8:20 using Marksman, with 100 pop provided by 3 houses (with palatine settlement as 3rd card), a good economy of 8 SW + 12~14 villager, and a shipment ready.

Your fortress game depends on what your opponent does. Your goals are:

1, send merc combat card to boost your mercs as soon as you get a breath, usually first or second fortress card, kill his army cost effectively.

2, establish map control because you need mines, possible put down another TC and boom away.

I often get a market in transition to age3, research gold mining and 2 wood chopping, then build outposts around mines. Another way is ship 1000wood early on and build TC + tower with them, this way it saves a lot of the research cost early on, allows you to get a few more units. Or you can keep heavy pressure on him by put every shipment and resource into units, attack him constantly so he can not afford to raid you back.

you will have to make barrack or stable to produce units that saloon did not provide. in most cases it is skirmishers, uhlans, or WW.

With good judgement and combat skills, helped by a bit of luck, you will win the game before both side get to late industrial Ė thatís where mercs lose their edge.


Strategy points


1, whether to commit to this strat--

the best way is to first rank mercs from most useful to least useful (from a german's point of view):

(unfortunatelu Elmiti and Mamelukes are no longer available in age3)

Highlander, 10, not only the undisputed best HI in the game, it makes up for german's lack of muskteer type unit.

Jaeger, 9, german dont get skirm upgrade cards, so 20% boosted jaeger is definitely worth getting

Swiss pike, 8, one of the most cost effect mercs, cheaper and better than dopp.

Liíl Bombard, 6, you save 300w for not having to make a foundry, they also kill cavalry well, very multi-purpose.

Hackapell, 5, not normally my perfered merc cav, but with merc combat they kill skirmishers, Wakina, FP, yumi, gurhka, arq, ckn and unupgraded pikeman in 1 hit, this is very significant when these are amongst the most common unit you will be facing.

Stradiot, 4, although normally slightly better than hackapell, i rank it lower because it donesnt standard out, and can easily be substituted by upgraded uhlans, 2 vet uhlans is quite similar 1 stradiot in over all effectiveness.

Landsknecht, 3, too slow to be useful.

Black rider, Manchu, 2, as good as they are in general, they are not useful to germans, WW is just as good as them and gone cost pure gold.


Corsair, 2, these guys should really be considered as cavalry - fast, good melee damage, low siege, only difference is they are countered by different type of units. most of their jobs can be handled by the free uhlans. and they are not good enough unless you get the merc combat boost.

Ninja, 1, completely worthless on the battle field, maybe good for raiding due to good siege.

Fusilier, 0, the only use for this unit is raiding, but when loaded with free uhlans, i dont think you will lack raiding forces.

you add the value of the 2 mercs you get and go from there.

> 10, it is very worthwell commiting to this strat,

5< + >10, it maybe worthwell but you have to think twice, number of avaliable mines and opponent civ choice could be deciding factors.

< 5, it is not worth doing.


2, you have to decide on build order based on what mercs you get. For example if you get 2 good mercs like jaeger and swiss pike, it is very good setup, you want to ship palatine settlement and go to fortress with Exile prince, because you can make good infantry so you donít need 6 free skirms and you wont need wood for barrack, just make them as soon as you get to fortress. If you donít get ranged infantry merc, you may want to get those 6 free skirms, then you want to age up with marksman. If you get 2 average mercs, such as BR + Stradiot, you may still go a head but you donít want to focus too much on the mercs. You may want to rely on normal units more, You may want to ship 700G or 700W next, go to fortress ASAP and build barrack + stable. When you get 2 crap mercs, you will want to forgo this strat altogether, switch to a conventional German FF, which is very possible as your only loss is 200 wood on the saloon and used up a card slot that you are not going to send anymore(merc ombat).


3, Theoritically the best time to send merc combat is right before the first big battle of your mercs. sending too early means you missed out on eco boost, too late means your mercs are not as effiecient.

in reality it is very difficult, you do not know when the battle will take place and when you will have next shipment.

you just have to make judgements about the situation and calculate your chances.

against aggrasive FF, send it ASAP; against boomers you can afford send it after 1000W, and maybe even 1000G; against rushers who are likely to still be in age2 ammasing an army of LI, you may want to get 9 uhlans and combined with some existing units, kill off his army before it gets too large.


4, XP treasure always comes first, 80 XP means 2 SW arrives 40 seconds faster, which gives extra 160 VS, which is over 120 food, 3 SW could arrive 40 seconds faster, that is 180 food. So pick it over 80 food next time you see them.

5, German is very rush-able, and everyone knows, you want to scare them off rushing, and should they rush, you want to be prepared. To do this you should keep cards like Teutonic TC, 2 outpost, improved buildings, 9 xbows in your deck.

6, keep 2~3 plantation upgrades in your deck, get wood chopping upgrades when you can, you have to be prepared to use plantation heavily in late fortress, because you cant always get many mines.

7, obviously it is almost impossible to do on maps without Trade Route, as you wonít get enough XP for the shipments.

8, personally I find allowing some idle time and go to colonial ASAP is a good choice at times, German colonial economy is quite good, you can afford 1 less vil, but sometimes that 20 seconds faster colonial could save you from a rush.

9, in games where you get 300 food and 200 wood start, it is possible to chop wood, build TP first, then first house and keep vil production constant, it will take a little practice to get right, but it is definitely worthwhile.



Deck


Replay

all replays were done way back and do not work anymore, so i took them off my webspace, therfore the links dont work anymore.

this game was against a french, from his micro and control, i'd say he is around 1900~ish, no clear mistake, correct unit choice etc.

I was actually on the losing end, the game lagged which made it quite hard to countrol my units, first it was him stealling my 150 wood, i saw it coming but by there was a good half a second delay before my explorer moved forward; then lost 3 corsairs because I saw his 10+ skirms a tab too late to pull back, 600 gold down in the drain.

however you be amazed how powerful was the merc combat boosted hackapells, 145 dmg killing skirms in 1 hit, 3 of them wiped out a whole army. i think the lag helped me here a little bit, he was not able to micro his skirms against my hackapells to the fullest.

eitherway he realised the best unit to make against this combo, but he didnt find enough res for it...

we both tried to take map control, he massed normal army with his OP french eco and I massed my OP merc army with my OP saloon....


this game was against an iro, his ESO id is currently 1900~1950 region. his deck indicated a GHFI, but he turned it into a rush.

not the best rush, but this recording is to show you how to beat a rush with this strat. in all honesty saloon did NOT play a big part at all, partly due to the suckiness of the outlaws on this map and my mistake of sending 3 SW over palatine settlement.

this game was on painted desert, one of the hardest map to do this strat due to lack of trade route. this dutch did 3 bank semi FF with a small raid, possible made that army in fear of me rushing.

interestingly he employed the same saloon merc strategy, except he did not go for the merc bombard and his corsairs were considerably weaker.

I did not go for palatine settelement, the reason for that was I needed every last XP i could find, so i opt to send 1000 wood on housing instead, which in turn gives me 200 XP.

against a sioux on bayou

i used this deck because it had cav HP, i thought i needed good cavalry against wakina, so i must go for uhlans.

luckily i got highlanders, they slaughtered RR and Axe.

[This message has been edited by ultimitsu (edited 04-03-2009 @ 07:55 PM).]

Replies:
posted 04-20-07 10:28 PM EDT (US)     26 / 53  
Ohh ur talking bout not having a DM in which case u have to worry bout resources then by all means dont ship the privateers. But if ur playing DM u should ship them, Caravles sucks unless u have like 4 of them and they have two cannons on a broadside compared to the privateers 4.

May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't.
- General George Patton Jr
posted 04-20-07 11:04 PM EDT (US)     27 / 53  
This will become a very useful strategy guide when I get TWC, thanks!

★ ★ ★ ★ ★

I heard distant forests all the time - CunniJA
I found my Jabra!
posted 04-21-07 00:45 AM EDT (US)     28 / 53  
this game was on painted desert, one of the hardest map to do this strat due to lack of trade route. thsi dutch did 3 bank semi FF with a small raid, possible made that army in fear of me rushing.

interestingly he employed the same merc strategy, except he did not go for the merc bombard and his corsairs were considerably weaker.

I did not go for palatine settelement, the reason for that was I needed every last XP i could find, so i opt to send 1000 wood on housing instead, which in turn gives me 200 XP.


Ohh ur talking bout not having a DM in which case u have to worry bout resources then by all means dont ship the privateers.

welcome to the world of supermacy.

[This message has been edited by ultimitsu (edited 04-21-2007 @ 00:46 AM).]

posted 04-21-07 03:41 AM EDT (US)     29 / 53  
Nice strat, makes me wish my German civ was higher than level 2. I particularly enjoyed the game with the French player on California, fantastic stuff- first the improved Hackapells completely wtf-pwning skirms as if they were no better than strelets, then the two enemy Town Centers going up right beside each other and the Minuteman war that follows... whose TC will prevail? Awesome!
posted 04-21-07 06:25 AM EDT (US)     30 / 53  
Game Flow

Standard age1 with 17~18 vils, age up to 400w. Chop wood for a TP in transition. Build a saloon + 2 houses with 400 age up wood, ship 3 SW. Fixed BO stops here.

nominated for the shortest BO of the year

about the strat, it's indeed a good way for the germans to be competitive untill the next patch
the merc combat card + saloon is why I sometimes play em
too bad randomness can screw this (useless mercs at saloon)

the 400w politician is also a must, but requires a high hc lvl


Old Indian: Once upon a time, a woman was picking up firewood. She came upon a poisonous snake frozen in the snow. She took the snake home and nursed it back to health. One day the snake bit her on the cheek. As she lay dying, she asked the snake, "Why have you done this to me?" And the snake answered, "Look, bitch, you knew I was a snake."
posted 04-21-07 09:19 PM EDT (US)     31 / 53  
I'm liking this strat

Brtnborder felt it on him earlier today . It's quite fun, I've been getting decent mercs, but the hardest part is just getting the regular units to support your mercs to have a diverse army. I love getting Lil Bombard though ^^

Feel free to post your recs in the Rec Forum, nono, it isn't dead >_> <_<


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posted 04-21-07 10:15 PM EDT (US)     32 / 53  
wreckoning

Thanks for the encouraging comment. the HC requirement is quite a turn off.

too bad randomness can screw this (useless mercs at saloon)

I am working on overcoming this problem. by trying to find a use to all mercs.

after the boost cosairs have 378 hp and 34 attack, that is similar to veteran hussars, can be used as pseudo-cavalry, and good against spanish that mass rods.

Ninjas seem to be good at raiding, huge siege damage 72 take down outposts in no time, 24 dmg is similar to kanya and cossack, decent enough to kill villagers. after that they can either run away at speed of 6 or disappear into smokes..

the only merc i still can not find any use, is fulisers. 300 gold for a weaker highlander? what did ES have in mind when they created this unit?


Brtnborder felt it on him earlier today . It's quite fun, I've been getting decent mercs, but the hardest part is just getting the regular units to support your mercs to have a diverse army. I love getting Lil Bombard though ^^

you are doing quite well with it I see, 5 wins in a row. one dutch resigned as soon as he saw your 3 elmeti, Heee...

[This message has been edited by ultimitsu (edited 04-21-2007 @ 10:21 PM).]

posted 04-21-07 10:48 PM EDT (US)     33 / 53  
Fusiler is not a better msukteer,
higlanders are better msukteers.

fusilers have a nive speed of 5, and can hit n run really well.

they have multiplier 1.5x multiplier vs ranged cav in volley mode, just as a Xbow attak.

so they can take out ranged cav in range, and in melee.
(so i think they are very useful vs Eagle Runners)

they can take out hand cav just as any muskteer.

and they can take out pikes, rodeleros, dopplsoldners, halberdiers, with good hit n run.

so i find higlanders better, but Fusilers arent crap.

posted 04-21-07 11:05 PM EDT (US)     34 / 53  
The problem of Fusiliers is that you are paying 50% more gold and getting 25% less HP back. Not to mention one fourth of the melee armor, which just by itself is way more significative than 1.5 vs Dragoons.

If they costed the same, then they might have been a good option, due to higher speed.


ESO - Walker

>> Napoleonic Era --> Visit their Homepage!
"Holy *****" > Thunder (Ensemble Studios)

Retired from AoE3. But I do play AoK HD in Steam now and then.

[This message has been edited by Cherub Walker (edited 04-21-2007 @ 11:06 PM).]

posted 04-21-07 11:15 PM EDT (US)     35 / 53  
you are doing quite well with it I see, 5 wins in a row. one dutch resigned as soon as he saw your 3 elmeti, Heee...

Haha ya, they are good but expensive.

It'd be a longer streak but the one versus Aztecs my connection failed me and vs. The French I trie the Outlaw defense but I had no idea what I was doing .

Either way, the saloon can be quite effective, just luck of the draw on mercs and what your opponent is doing.


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posted 04-21-07 11:17 PM EDT (US)     36 / 53  
I agree with you walker,
i am not saying that Fusiler is ThaPWonZrOPiKiLLyouALL unit.
highlanders are better IMO.
Higlanders areone of my Favourite unit in the game.
i am just saying Fusiler are a balanced unit, not OP not UP.
i think Corsairs and Ninja are the worst mercenaries, and Lasketchenet are not too good IMO.
posted 04-22-07 04:00 PM EDT (US)     37 / 53  
i am just saying Fusiler are a balanced unit, not OP not UP.

show us a recording of you using fulisers effectively then we will take you seriously.

The French I trie the Outlaw defense but I had no idea what I was doing

against xbow + pike rush, Teutonic TC owns, 135 dmg 1 hit kill both Xbow and pike, TC is also boosted by 30%.

using CM is also good, you trade 30% HP for extra 15 MM. good if he goes for an all-out one-time-blow rush.

imo outlaw defense is also a draw of luck, only pistol and rifle are useful, rider and pirates are completely useless against rushes.

which is what you get on sanguney.


If they costed the same, then they might have been a good option, due to higher speed.

Even at the same cost, you get 33% less ranged HP, half the melee HP, all for 10% more damage and 1 more speed.

5 speed may sound good, but they range is still crap at 12, so they cant hit and run anything properly. add the fact that they are HI, trading shots with LI is always bad.

posted 04-22-07 04:20 PM EDT (US)     38 / 53  
i am just saying Fusiler are a balanced unit, not OP not UP.

You don't even have TWC :s

imo outlaw defense is also a draw of luck, only pistol and rifle are useful, rider and pirates are completely useless against rushes.

Where's the luck involved in that? after a while, you know by heart what maps offer which outlaws.

posted 04-22-07 04:44 PM EDT (US)     39 / 53  
I can assure you he does have TWC Medio, I played him in last nights FFA...

Nice strat ulti btw

posted 04-22-07 04:46 PM EDT (US)     40 / 53  
Then I apologise for my words.
posted 04-22-07 04:54 PM EDT (US)     41 / 53  
Nice strat Ulti.

Ceres 629's strategy guides

Vive la mort, vive la guerre, vive le sacre mercenaire.

0 A.D
posted 04-22-07 05:11 PM EDT (US)     42 / 53  
Where's the luck involved in that? after a while, you know by heart what maps offer which outlaws.

you cant choose map, if you end up with a bad map, then you just cant do outlaw defense despite alrwady have a saloon.

i m not taking about Outlaw defence in general, i m talking about it in use with this strat.

[This message has been edited by ultimitsu (edited 04-22-2007 @ 05:14 PM).]

posted 04-22-07 05:13 PM EDT (US)     43 / 53  
Corsairs are way better than both Ninja (nearly useless, IMO) and Fusiliers. With the proper upgrades, Corsairs can kill their own counters. Germans can have Corsairs with 409.5 HP (40% hand resistance) and 33.6 attack. For 200 gold. That's a steal.

And as for Fusiliers being a good idea against Eagle Knight spam, try it and you'll go broke in a few minutes. At 300 gold a pop they are one of the least cost effective Mercs available at the Saloon.


P.S.
Ultimitsu, have you completely ruled out Ronin?
I was thinking about the Church tech that makes all infantry 20% faster for 10% more cost. That gives you 5.4 speed Ronin for 440 gold a piece. Send the 20% merc combat card, research Infantry Breastplate at the Arsenal, and you got a unit with these monstrous stats:

Speed: 5.4
HP: 702 (!)
Resistance: 40% hand
Attack: 69.6 in area of 3, x3 vs cavalry
Cost: 440 gold

Does take 3 cards to get to that point, though. But those cards will come with 7 Uhlans so that's a little better.

Get enough of these little monsters, and with the free Uhlans you won't need much else to fight off anything. Your only real danger is light infantry, which with the slowdown effect from the Uhlans will be caught up to and annihilated.
Viable, you think?


"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
posted 04-22-07 06:54 PM EDT (US)     44 / 53  
Ultimitsu, have you completely ruled out Ronin?
I was thinking about the Church tech that makes all infantry 20% faster for 10% more cost. That gives you 5.4 speed Ronin for 440 gold a piece. Send the 20% merc combat card, research Infantry Breastplate at the Arsenal, and you got a unit with these monstrous stats:

not to say that is not impressive stats, here is my thoughts on the matter:

1, the shipment scarce german need every shipment to be a real boost right now. Sending 3 cards does take a lot of time and cost oppotunities. from my expereince of using this strat, the most vunerable time is early fortress, i have to decide on what to use and set up a decent army ASAP, i dont have the time to wait for 3 or even just 2 non-militery/resource cards to kick in.

2, i would only want ronin if i dont get a decent HI merc, i could just do with veteran dopp - not as good as ronins but close, i can send infantry combat (over dancing hall) to shrink the gap, which in the long run is better becasue as soon as i reach age4, guard dopp is of better deals than ronin.

3, With no good HI from the saloon, i also stand a chance (small but does exist) of not getting decent merc at all. in which case i may forgo merc combat altogather, which makes ronins even less of a bargin compared to dopp.

4, I find as german, I often dont have to have melee HI, for anti-cavalry i have a lot of free uhlans, veteran uhlans do 44 dmg to other cavalry, failing that i have 9 BR shipment; agaisnt fast melee HI, BR + jaeger + skirmish shipment seem to do the trick (see the painted desert game where my skirms + jaegers annaliated hords of corsairs and swiss pikes), merc bombard and highlanders from the saloon will both do fine job; German's play style to me is more of the kill the army type than siege down the base type.

Overall i'd say the first point is the strongest reason that i never tried the ronins.

Get enough of these little monsters, and with the free Uhlans you won't need much else to fight off anything. Your only real danger is light infantry, which with the slowdown effect from the Uhlans will be caught up to and annihilated.
Viable, you think?

You will need quite a few ronins to achieve this effect. remember Ronins are very hard to mass due to the cost, even if you just needed 8, that is over 3500 gold, take into account of first 3 shipment after palatine settlement did not give eco boost ( dancing hall -> merc combat -> UC), maybe viable against an FI who dont have an army early on. if you were attacked when you only have 3 ronins and >10 uhlans, you will not stand much chance surviving it.

[This message has been edited by ultimitsu (edited 04-22-2007 @ 07:16 PM).]

posted 04-22-07 10:12 PM EDT (US)     45 / 53  
Fusiliers are more just a ploy to have 9 speed musketeers that shoot for over 100 :P

Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan
posted 04-25-07 08:36 PM EDT (US)     46 / 53  
I think the 2 most important aspects of this strategy are the commitment to use it, and the timing to send the merc combat card. so i will make some deeper analysis on both subjects.

--whether to commit to this strat--

the best way is to first rank mercs from most useful to least useful (from a german's point of view):

Elmiti, 10, most powerful unit in the game, makes up for german's lack of durable melee cav. monstours stats with merc combat.

Highlander, 10, not only the undisputed best HI in the game, it makes up for german's lack of muskteer type unit.

Jaeger, 9, german dont get skirm upgrade cards, so 20% boosted jaeger is definitely worth getting

Swiss pike, 8, one of the most cost effect mercs, cheaper and better than dopp.

Liíl Bombard, 6, you save 300w for not having to make a foundry, they also kill cavalry well, very multi-purpose.

Mameluke, 6, very good unit, makes up for uhlans's low health, useful for killing artilleries, but as in general anti LI, you can rely on the volume of uhlans.

Hackapell, 5, not normally my perfered merc cav, but with merc combat they kill skirmishers and unupgraded pikeman in 1 hit, this is very significant when these 2 are amongst the most common unit you will be facing.

Stradiot, 4, although normally slightly better than hackapell, i rank it lower because it donesnt standard out, and can easily be substituted by upgraded uhlans, 2 vet uhlans is quite similar 1 stradiot in over all effectiveness.

Landsknecht, 3, inferior to swiss pikes, but better than dopps. do very well against other LI.

Black rider, Manchu, 2, as good as they are in general, they are not useful to germans, WW is just as good as them and gone cost pure gold.


Corsair, 2, these guys should really be considered as cavalry - fast, good melee damage, low siege, only difference is they are countered by different type of units. most of their jobs can be handled by the free uhlans. and they are not good enough unless you get the merc combat boost.

Ninja, 1, completely worthless on the battle field, maybe good for raiding due to good siege.

Fusilier, 0, the only use for this unit is raiding, but at loaded with uhlans, i dont think you will lack raiding forces.


if you add the value of the 2 mercs you get, and it is over 10, then it is very worthwell commiting to this strat,

between 10 to 5, it maybe worthwell but you have to think twice, number of avaliable mines and opponent civ choice could be deciding factors.

under 5 i'd say it is not worth doing.


---when to send merc combat---

Theoritically the best time to send merc combat is right before the first big battle that your saloon mercs are involved in. sending too early means you missed out on eco boost, too late means your mercs are not as effiecient.

in reality it is very difficult, you do not know when will the big battle take place, and you do not when when will you have the next shipment.

you will have to make judgements about the situation and calculate your chances.

against aggarasive FF, such as iro and spansih, send it ASAP; against boomers like british and port, you can afford send it after 1000W, and maybe even 1000G; against russian and aztec, who are likely to still be in age2 ammasing an army of LI, you may want to get 9 uhlans and combined with some existing units, kill off his army before it gets too large.

posted 05-02-07 01:07 AM EDT (US)     47 / 53  
here is another rec in case anyone is interested.

against a sioux on bayou

i used this deck because it had cav HP, i thought i needed good cavalry against wakina, so i must go for uhlans.

luckily i got highlanders, they slaughtered RR and Axe.

[This message has been edited by ultimitsu (edited 05-02-2007 @ 03:41 PM).]

posted 05-02-07 09:36 AM EDT (US)     48 / 53  
im interested. the link is to the game vs the french player though.
posted 05-02-07 11:09 AM EDT (US)     49 / 53  
Great strat, very effective.

When I used it last night I got fusiliers and ninja though. Needless to say I got poned


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posted 05-02-07 01:11 PM EDT (US)     50 / 53  
Great strategy! I been playing Germans lately and losing more than winning trying to make outlaws work in Colonial. I find a barracks is more useful in Colonial than saloon + Palestine settlements and using all outlaws for defense. I know when I play against a German, I always go for the throat in Colonial. Even if they have a deck like you described, sending Teutonic TC, 2 outpost, improved buildings, etc. will slow down the old Germen economy and they can reach Fortress just as powerful. Of course if you donít make an early saloon, it is tough to decide to use this strategy.

It is too bad outlaws are so terrible and improved mercenaries does not effect them. Having to send a card just to be able to use outlaws is not very effective. I find crossbows better than riflemen on a cost basis in Colonial and outlaws are to population heavy (even with Dance Halls) for late game (the +35% Wild West is a joke compared to Guard units). If they just took away the set-up animation on outlaws allowing hit and run and possibly lowered the population of each outlaw unit by 1 or 2 (and 2 more with Dance Halls), Germany would stand a very good chance and historically you could argue that is why they have some of the best beer in the world (early saloons).

I suggest that you edit the main post with your recent ranking of mercenaries. I find that very useful from a Germans perspective and most people reading the strategy are not going to scroll to the 5th page to find information.


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AOE3 TWC TAD UNIT COMPARISON SPREADSHEET: Unit Comparison Spreadsheet

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posted 05-02-07 01:36 PM EDT (US)     51 / 53  
Btw, as Germany you could do the following vs non FFers:

17-18 vills/Sws in age1 (pop wise), age with wood guy. While aging, get a market+upgrades, then chop wood for 2 houses and send most guys on food, few on wood, some on gold.

Upon aging, make a rax with age up wood and start training 5 xbows. Ship 9 xbow card.

If he isnt rushing, go harras him a bit with your 14 xbows 2 Uhlans, if he is, just stay in your base and switch all vills to food/gold to get enough res for age3. Next shipment 3 SW, then age up.

14 Xbows+2 Uhlans+MM+age up skirms should be enough to deal with most rushes imo.

posted 05-02-07 04:17 PM EDT (US)     52 / 53  
You should be able to get Wild West in fortress age, or it should be better in the industrial age.

"Apparently, arguing for the right to do something no-one wants to do is the lifeblood of HG." - TaylorFlame

"Whatever happened, BFME2H did it better. No Exceptions." - EnemyofJupitor
posted 05-02-07 04:54 PM EDT (US)     53 / 53  
kuzyk - link is now fixed.

Catabre - which civ were you playing against when you got ninja and fusiliers ?

Cyclohexane - I have now edited the original post

Voltiguer - personally i dont feel the 9 xbow is worth sending for raiding, because it slows me down a lot more than him. i perfer to send it only after opponent started sieging my TC.

Regarding wild west - this card would be good if outlaws had auto upgrades. because pop is a much bigger factor in age4 than it is in age2. so even if outlaws were massively powerful they would still not ruin the balance.

Regarding outlaw defense. I feel that pistol is definitely the best of the lot, lowest pop and cost, best all rounder, very good HP. rifleman seems a bit too frigile especiall since he cant hit and run. outlow pop really needs to come down for them to become viable options.

[This message has been edited by ultimitsu (edited 05-02-2007 @ 04:57 PM).]

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