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Topic Subject: My little guide to India
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posted 12-05-07 12:42 PM EDT (US)   
A little guide to the Indians

Hi everyone, I’m new to the forums but have read them with interest since a long time, so I have decided to join it with my little guide to the Indians. My English is not the best so I apologize in advance.

Many players have troubles with India because they are slightly up. During my long time playing with them I have discovered some strats that helped me a lot. I don’t know if the following was there like this before or was discovered the same way by some others. I don’t have a special name for it, but here it is:

Basic semi-ff:

First 3 vils go to food the other 2 collect crates (leaving the gold ones) then they go also to food, all new vils too
-till you have 800 food. Meanwhile the 2 explorers collect all treasures (food for a quicker advance, or wood to build more vils faster) for some exp or the important herdables.

When you have 800 food one vil begins to build the taj mahal while the rest immediately goes to wood, after that he follows the wood choppers.

During this your first card should be the wood trickle card (other possible cards are mentioned below). While aging, train vils and build one or two houses. As soon as the wood card arrive leave 5 vils on wood (this is enough for constant vil production + some houses) and the rest go to food until you have 5 or 6 on it. Then all new ones go to gold - crates then mine. Your 2nd card should be the 4 sowar card. Use them to raid constantly like some Dutch doing this with their 3 hussars while performing an ff.

Then you should be able to go to the 3rd with the masabdar thing using 4 of your vils from a resource you have enough. Your goal is to send the 7 urumi card immediately in the 3rd age. Between aging build a barrack and some houses. After arriving you should build a consulate choosing the Brits for hp boost and the muskets. Also you should build gukhas for the rest of 500+ food or sepoys (sepoys against Chinese (disciples) and Spain for (rods and lancers), ghurkas against Dutch (ryuter and skirms) for example.

Your next card should be the two mahouts because they are doing very well against skirms and falcs. The intervention card giving your some muskets is also a good card for all purposes (meatshild or a bit for sieging). As soon as you have the 400 export, send also muskets (or wait till you have 450 for some petards which do very well against an Agra fort, or a normal Europe fort). If you think your enemy is going to get you with falcs then you should send the two siege elephants as your card after the urumis or the 2 mahouts. The micro is very important to get his army beaten, so drive your mahouts from the front away while your musks/gurkhas/urumis are killing his units. Then your mahouts are able to get his li or his falcs. Against Spain you should send the 2 howdahs against his lancers, just choose your cards to counter his army. The urumis do very well against all units and while mostly your enemy is focusing on your big mahouts. I would recommend to put the 2nd urumi card in your deck too because against hi you are going to get big problems without them.


If you are going to fight on a water map and you think he is going on water (deck check and exploration) send the 2 caravel card (setting the arrival point near his coast) in order to distract his eco.

If he is going to attack you early and the map you are fighting on is great for map control (like Honshu and Dekkan I think) you should move one vil before aging to a choke point building the agra fort while sending 5 sepoys as your first card. In this case you should reorganize your vils so you are able to produce sepoys and gurkhas constantly. Attack early distracting his eco and fight him off in colonial. I recommend this against an ottoman player where a good defense/forward base is very important. On maps like Honshu you should be able to produce caravels and sepoys/gurkhas to fight him by land and while distracting him by sea. Also important to say is that you should add sowars against abus guns.

If you don’t know if he is attacking early and you have already chosen the taj mahal send the tigerclaws and build a barrack immediately while calling cease fire in case of an attack. Build gurkhas or sepoys in order to counter his army. You should be able to get the gold from the tigerclaws back safety. Try to find a balance between defending and advancing to the 3rd. In age 3 the urumis help a lot against everything while having the mahout as a good meatshild.

If you are in the 3rd age and you got a good defense but you haven’t the right force for an offence, try to focus more on food and build a holy field with as many cows you can afford. I recommend this also for late game because this allows you to send more cards like the elephant attack/defense or the sepoy/gurka attack/defense cards while having some good military shipments.


The cards you choose - and if you play one card, are a matter of the situation and a matter of your exp. If you think you cannot manage to send the 4 sowars or the 2 caravels immediately as soon as you arrive in the 2nd age you should spare your 1st card having 7 vils on wood (instead of 5). As your 2nd card you should send the bigger wood tickle card, leaving 3 vils on wood after it arrives.

Against Japanese and Ports you should think about not sending the 4 sowars because these civs are able to collect resources very safety. Let the map decide but it is important to say that an early attack with the sowars distracts very well, leaving you enough time to advance.

When your sowars got beaten or you think a little defense is necessary to fulfill the advance send the 5 sepoys after them. This plus your cease fire should be enough to hold him off till you have the mahout and your urumis arriving. Just remember that the pressure you create is important to give you enough time.

Another possible thing is to send the 1st age consulate card (I don’t know the English translation) as your first card, which allows you to send all technologies from allies cheaper. Your 2nd card should be the 300 export. Choosing the French, allows you to send 2 crates and the 3rd crate after a short time. These 2 cards give you an amount of 1500 resources which is a great boost in age 2 or 3. But it is just an idea.

I have also added some recs, 2 versus a Dutch and one against an Ottoman. I´m not the best (constant vil production and so), but they show the thought of my strat very well. The times for aging are round 4:00 for the 2nd and around 9:00 for the 3rd age (arriving).

Against Dutch on Prairie(2000+):

Against another Dutch on Painted Desert(2100+):

Against Otto on Honshu colonial fighting (2000+):

So I know I have written it very long and not structured as it should be, but I hope the recs and this little guide helps some of you the same way it helped me. I am also interested about your comments, but always remember I am not the best!

Best regards
posted 12-06-07 11:15 AM EDT (US)     1 / 37  
I watched all 3 recs and was amazed by the mahouts aswell as the urumis (great use of consulate btw)

I think Indias strenght lies in its age3 shipments + charminar gate --> mansabdar units rock

I think the Taj Mahal gives you a safe transition to age3 and thanks to the fairly early age up , your opponent might suspect a rush. Great strategy

"You cannnot discover inhabited land , If not i could go and 'discover' England" - Iroquois Chief
posted 12-06-07 11:44 AM EDT (US)     2 / 37  
Thank you for your comment!
You are right, i forgot to mention that the opponent suspects a rush
And the masabdar units do rock, but i also choose it for the mahout which arrives with it.
The taj is great, but i also forgot to mention that buildings are able to fire while the cease fire is called.
Wait till he comes close, call cease fire and they retreat not wanting to be a target for 15 seconds.
This gives you nearly 30 seconds for preparing a defense or advancing.
posted 12-06-07 11:49 AM EDT (US)     3 / 37  
I was going against a russian on greatplains as india, (i know, historical innacuracy), we were both in fort and I was advancing to industrial. My reasonable small army was out treasure hunting, meanwhile 20 opris decended on all my hunters, He typed GG and then i hit the taj button...

lets just say he probably shat himself..

"So, what do you guys think? What's theverdict? OP, or do I need to stop smoking crack?"
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[This message has been edited by Kiverly Spears (edited 18-12-2008 @ 9:21 PM).]
posted 12-06-07 12:01 PM EDT (US)     4 / 37  
thats one great usage of the taj!
It has many good purposes. For example you are able to hunt safety (not the slower berries) or you can call it and getting your army near his falcs. And another good usage is calling it to land safety on his coast with your army, without getting disturbed by his ships!
posted 12-06-07 01:30 PM EDT (US)     5 / 37  
Good Write up and Great Recs! I added it to the news :P

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[This message has been edited by Myll_Erik (edited 12-06-2007 @ 01:31 PM).]

posted 12-06-07 01:59 PM EDT (US)     6 / 37  
Great strategy! I've been playing with the possibilites for an India FF in SP for some time, I suppose that's what I've been looking for.

Urumis are quite weird units. They are some kind of Skirmishers who fight only in melee... and if I'm not mistaken, they deal ranged damage! I guess many players won't know exactly what to do against them.
Another possible thing is to send the 1st age consulate card (I don’t know the English translation) as your first card, which allows you to send all technologies from allies cheaper. Your 2nd card should be the 300 export. Choosing the French, allows you to send 2 crates and the 3rd crate after a short time. These 2 cards give you an amount of 1500 resources which is a great boost in age 2 or 3. But it is just an idea.
I wonder how much one can play with that idea. You are getting 1500 resources, which is amazing, but at the cost of two cards. Anyway, can't wait to get a few more levels and try it out. Oh, and your english is quite good, don't worry

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posted 12-06-07 02:39 PM EDT (US)     7 / 37  
I believe the card is good faith agreements. I wanted to do an FF with china using this card and 300 export after 700 coin, but then your next shipment is too slow for an agressive china mirror (The only FF match I ever faced). I haven't properly read it (I cba really because I'm not using india and it's quite long, but it seems nice) but if you can beat 2.1k dutch with it it can't be bad

My grandmother slaps harder than the Agra Fort shoots. And she's dead. ~ Ender_Ward

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posted 12-06-07 02:51 PM EDT (US)     8 / 37  
Thank You VERY MUCH!!!
Im very happy that my guide has made it to the news
...and im also happy that my english is not so bad Y

Yes 2 cards for only 1500 is not that great but it is ok for 2nd age, and you can maybe think of playing the royal green jackets giving you gurkhas in age 3 with every tech?!
posted 12-06-07 04:26 PM EDT (US)     9 / 37  
Dang, this makes me wish I could play online, I lost my CD-Key and forgot my pass+user :P. India is one of my favorite civs (along with ottos)and this is great.

I ask too many questions?
Hey, I think I'm back :P
posted 12-06-07 05:06 PM EDT (US)     10 / 37  
nice write up. It is simple, and effective.

I was watching the rec game vs ottos, and was confused at your card choice, after you began to build sowars to counter the abus guns. Why did you pick desert terror? (which only increases attack vs archers and skirms which the ottos dont have)
I would have thought that the card which gives camels +15% attack would have been more suitable for this situation. Or am I missing something?

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Real men play without walls." LordKivlov
posted 12-06-07 05:37 PM EDT (US)     11 / 37  
scriv - I believe that desert terror should also increase damage against Abus. Why wouldn't it? It says increases against archers and skirmishers in the text, and Abus aren't (graphically) either, but they do fall under the category of infantry (which the bonus is against, but then cancelled out against heavy infantry).

And the upgrade card is 30% damage, not 15%. A good card, which may have been a better send, but it doesn't increase damage as much as desert terror would against Abus.

Edit - I've had a bit of a question about a specific Indian card, which maybe you could answer for me Grottenmolch. You certainly are an expert with the Indians anyway (nice rating). I've wondered about the 'Grazing' card, since I haven't actually tried using it yet. I didn't want to use it until I know exactly what it does, and have yet to find that out. Do you know how much resources this card gives you per camel/elephant per second? Or if you don't know that answer, have you used the card at all? If so, did it seem worth it? Sorry for all the questions. Good advice for Indian players, and top-notch recordings (thanks for sharing them with us, I've been looking for something like these). Also, your English is quite good, and probably a good deal better than I could speak your native language (German?).

[This message has been edited by Mune84 (edited 12-06-2007 @ 05:47 PM).]

posted 12-06-07 05:55 PM EDT (US)     12 / 37  
I dont know the exact numbers for the cards
(like in TWC where it is mentioned).
My thought was that abus are li, the desert terror meaning li (ok archers and skirms, but they are li - so i think this is a little bug not saying it precisely). Thats the reason i choosed it. Due to the the fact that i dont know the exact numbers it make no difference for me which card i should use

...Oh there are the numbers
Thx mune84 for your compliments! Yes i have used the graze card sometimes. It aided me great for turteling. The gathering rates are mentioned in the specific unit information, i dont have them in mind (for elephants they were 10 wood per second i think). With this card you are able to get some more res while having a defence force in your base (so they are like a shrines able to fight, but unfortunately also able to die). And also yes i am german

[This message has been edited by Grottenmolch (edited 12-06-2007 @ 06:05 PM).]

posted 12-06-07 06:57 PM EDT (US)     13 / 37  
Nice start, i would have tried it if you wrote it 1 week before (i dont feel like playing India now), but i think i'll give it a try in some days

don't read the sucky description, what Desert Terror does it increase multiplier vs Infantry to x2 and decrease multiplier vs Heavyinfantry to x0.5.
Abus are Infntry, Abus aren't HeavyInfantry, then the card does affect the damange for Sowars vs Abus.

But i'll still get the +30% Card first.. think of it.. 30%! thats a hell lot.
Maybe it doesnt increase the attack vs LI* as much as Desert Terror does, but it incrases attack vs ALL units +30% and i think HP too.

good job Grotten, you'll be a nice addition to the community, welcome.
posted 12-06-07 07:43 PM EDT (US)     14 / 37  
Eicho - Only 30% to attack, if it was both then it would be the best upgrade card in the game by far (60% increase). As it is, it matches the usual 15/15% increases of the European 'Combat' cards.
posted 12-06-07 09:22 PM EDT (US)     15 / 37  
I tried a quick search but could not find the exact numbers for the Grazing card, but I recall seeing the numbers and a discussion showing that it was really poor - it took a number of elephants and camels to equal the gathering of a single villager.
Yet another wasted unique card - ES /BHG seems to always make these interesting cards without enough strength or value to make them worthwhile.
posted 12-06-07 09:26 PM EDT (US)     16 / 37  
Excellent work!

ESO: JarlNick

Want to talk OP? AOE3 Abus Guns at release were nightmares. But I knew how to take care of them! Beware my Culverins you artillery bastards! Oh wait...- MNBob

posted 12-07-07 01:10 AM EDT (US)     17 / 37  
One India-related thing I don't hear mentioned often; what do you all think of Jat Lancers? I always found the 8 Jat lancer card to be quite powerful, giving you a small army of merc-equivalents of Spanish Lancers (with much higher damage). Of course, I don't get to send it often since it's an Industrial card. Thats when I thought of using that card which lowers outlaw population (with the nice addition of letting you build Jat Lancers, of course).

I was disappointed with the fact that the Lancers weren't available until the 3rd age (even though it's a 2nd age card) and that they cost a whopping 400 gold. But if they were available 2nd age, I think it would be a bit broken. So anyway, I just played a game (against one of our forumers, actually) where I used a FF for Jat Lancers, using the card mentioned above and the 1000 gold card sent first thing age 3. I ended up with a first wave of 5 Jat lancers at about 9:30 (with about 10 Ghurka for backup) with another wave of Lancers coming in at about 10:30 (only 4 this time, had many villagers on gold but just not enough). My opponent was Sioux, and did a sort of FF for a mix of wakina, rifle riders and warclubs (I estimate roughly 20 wakina, 20 clubs and 10 riders).

The combo of warclubs and rifle riders made for a rough situation for my lancers, but the 4 or 5 that I had took a good number of units down with them before they died. The ghurka's held their own, and were soon supported by my second wave of Lancers which turned the tide. The battle went towards his base (which had 2 TC's near eachother as well as warhuts) so I pulled back and went industrial. The 8 Lancer shipment plus roughly 4 I already had, along with a good mass of Urumi's I had shipped (7 in Fortress, 9 + 1 mansabdar in Industrial) and Ghurka's I hade made (about 30 plus 1 mansabdar) won the battle handily. The Lancers, although somewhat fragile, were able to easily defeat or atleast break even with every unit he could produce, perhaps with the exception of the rifle riders. Wakina were 1 hit killed even, with the warclubs only taking 2 hits.

Another sidenote - Does anyone know specifically the effects of the mansabdar units? I seemed to notice a increase in attack, but don't know how much (some small amount rounded off). Anyone know the amount, or if there are other effects?
posted 12-07-07 01:45 AM EDT (US)     18 / 37  
I tried a quick search but could not find the exact numbers for the Grazing card, but I recall seeing the numbers and a discussion showing that it was really poor - it took a number of elephants and camels to equal the gathering of a single villager.
Yet another wasted unique card - ES /BHG seems to always make these interesting cards without enough strength or value to make them worthwhile.
The grazing card gives 0.05 food per second from each camel and 0.1 wood per second from each elephant. The values are weak. If you had 10 elephants (not likely), it is 1 wood per second (2 villager equivalent), 20 camels is 1 food per second (2 villager equivalent if farming, less than that if hunting).
Another sidenote - Does anyone know specifically the effects of the mansabdar units? I seemed to notice a increase in attack, but don't know how much (some small amount rounded off). Anyone know the amount, or if there are other effects?
Grants +10% damage & hit point aura (to total value, not the base) to a similar unit in a 24 range (if Gurkha Mansabdar, effects other Gurkha)

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[This message has been edited by Cyclohexane (edited 12-07-2007 @ 01:51 AM).]

posted 12-07-07 05:03 AM EDT (US)     19 / 37  
It seems like pretty good strat, however the fact that India is really sucky civ at the moment makes it inferior to other FF strategies. Also India´s fortress shipments are honestly crap. 8 gurkha? 3 howdahs (woth maybe 1400 res) for shipment AND 1000 food? Siege ele shipment actually costing food... howdah shipment costs food... You dont get real fort, and the list goes on.

Ive played india to lvl 71, and TBH it makes me wonder wth were ES testers smoking when they made India. ATM i play propably about major skills (cba to increase rating and india factor makes it even lower), well yesterday i played vs some China, i do semi FF, and so did he. Nothing special, and not big screws from him or me, (I didn´t do any special BO, he obviously did) 8ckn shipment to harrass and FF, then 7 hand mortars and spam changdao&arq(and ofc disciples), i got some mahouts and howdahs, while he sieged my buildings, and by the time i was ready (and had to attack due to my base disappearing fast)got my army wiped off, and he happily destroyed my base... This guy was master serg ~15 if i remember correctly.

So yeah, losing to people half your PR just doing some strict BO makes you wonder if there is something wrong with the civs

Well, I guess its time to return to Sioux till next patch ^^
posted 12-07-07 09:22 AM EDT (US)     20 / 37  
Thx Eicho and jarl nick for your compliments!
In my opinion jat lancers arent that good at all. They cost like an elmeti but dont do their job like them.
I also think that 3rd Age cards are powerful. They cost food, but you gain a benefit for it. A fortress card is 1000 res worth, so if you send for example the 3 Mahouts for 1000 res you get for this 2000 res 3 units worth of 1950 res (one Mahout costs 400food and 250wood i think)and so on...
So it is worth sending age 3 cards with India.
And i also think that ES did a great job with India, which is a totally different civ, but the balance in comparison to other civs is not as it should be. This makes them slightly up, but not so horribly as mentioned by some players.
posted 12-07-07 01:43 PM EDT (US)     21 / 37  
Congratz pwning some dutch lamers! I loved the recs.
But is this strat feasible against civs which can rush hard? Is your economy not completely screwed up by not having constant vil production?
Gonna try it soon anyways.

[This message has been edited by Nuco2005 (edited 12-07-2007 @ 01:48 PM).]

posted 12-08-07 09:52 AM EDT (US)     22 / 37  
@Nuco 2005:
Thx first of all!
I think you can take the otto rec as an example for someone who rushes hard. I also have mentioned under the "exceptions" situations for beeing rushed/early attacked
(cease fire, tigerclaws and so).
I was able to hold the otto off, but exploration and knowing the civs habbits (otto prefering rushing for example) is essential for being prepared properly.
A bit of luck is in every game though.

The lack of constant vils production in the beginning is not that worse because it is not that long (treasures help there) and you are getting one vil with one card.
posted 12-08-07 05:06 PM EDT (US)     23 / 37  

Lol... you have better English than a lot of Amnericans I talk to! Anyways, I am a India player too but not very good (btw I love your modesty) and I have some questions for you.

First: why do you go all vils to food and not gather wood in age 2? you get maybe 1:00 to 45 secs faster age up but you leave your eco shot? Just wondering why you do that.

Second: What do you build late game? If the game goes late for me I'm usually going to lose.

Third: why the Taj Mahal? and not the tower of victory? is it just so you get the 15-30 secos of defense? i'm not quite sure.

I appreciate your time and am looking forward to watching your games!

[This message has been edited by b_bop (edited 12-08-2007 @ 05:07 PM).]

posted 12-08-07 05:23 PM EDT (US)     24 / 37  
Late game i mostly get mahouts and sepoys , they r both quite good , imo specially after a few upgrade cards an perhaps a mansabdar unit in there aswell , + if you got tower of victory = mass ownage

"You cannnot discover inhabited land , If not i could go and 'discover' England" - Iroquois Chief
posted 12-08-07 08:02 PM EDT (US)     25 / 37  
Hello b_bop,
thx for the compliment, my dictonary is my best friend!

First: Im getting this quick to 2nd age because i am able to raid faster (4 sowar card), letting him think I could rush and because the damage of my eco is not that bad (mentioned above).

Second: Late game is very difficult with India. They have huge problems against hi (Jannies, Aishigarus and Halbs are a nightmare lategame) because the gurkhas are too weak alone and you are unable to get urumis massively. So the best is not letting it come so far or if it does produce, as Sjiniet pointed out, Sepoys+Mahouts. I would mix in some Sowdahs, Siege elephants and Gurkhas. But i conquered an Inian a while ago using Rajputs+Mahouts (just two res) and he fought with them very well...

Third: I think The Taj is very important because of the 500 gold it brings and the cease fire you have mentioned fits perfectly. The tower is a very good option for lategame as
also Sjiniet said and you could use it for an aggressive colonial with the wood it brings.

I hope this helps!
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