You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Strategy Central
Moderated by Maffia, LordKivlov, JimXIX

Hop to:    
Welcome! You are not logged in. Please Login or Register.81 replies
Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » Strategy Central » Most Underrated Units
Bottom
Topic Subject:Most Underrated Units
« Previous Page  1 2 3 4  Next Page »
CunniJA
Skirmisher
posted 05-23-08 07:56 PM EDT (US)         
So, what do you guys think is the most underrated unit in the game?

For me, I'm going to go with Steppe Riders. Those guys really are fierce. After all, they deal double the damage to Ranged Infantry pop-wise as Hussars too and can siege very well right off the bat. Not to mention, add just one card, and you've basically got Colonial Oprichniks. I think what is underrated most about these dudes is their *LI killing ability, which is excellent contrary to popular belief.

A_S: "Cunni's pic wins thread otherwise failing due to being 5-7 years behind the times."
"Brilliant cunni simply brilliant"
C_MAG: "CunniJA's post is epic win."
AuthorReplies:
As_Saffah
Scenario Reviewer
posted 05-25-08 06:10 PM EDT (US)     26 / 81       
Tru dat. I just spent the last hour kicking the crap out of someone on an unrated map with only a couple wolves, they were all I could afford at the time but they tore the crap out of his first batch of strelets.

They aren't as OP as they used to be though. I guess that's why they're underrated now...

Crunkatog on ESO
Bart331 balance suggestion: aztec: remove civ
Voltiguer: Ender, Sioux in 1.04 will be a top civ, no matter how many layers of Sioux goggles you put on
schildpad on Elephants: ...their mansabdar unit sucks so hard it looks like a black hole
Crunkatog on Steam.
ultimitsu
Skirmisher
posted 05-25-08 08:17 PM EDT (US)     27 / 81       
pet coyote was never underrated, people used them to great effect, i started using them just about every game back in TWC.

as of TAD 1.01 they have been nerfed into oblivion, completely useless now.

I dont think there is such a thing as "underrated", if a unit get low usage, the only reason is it is not cost effective.

late game fast dopp are good, sure, but how many games actually last into that late to allow them to be upgraded to that point?
CunniJA
Skirmisher
posted 05-26-08 00:39 AM EDT (US)     28 / 81       
I wouldn't say Flamers are overrated, they are rated exactly where they should be I think. For the most part, they really suck because they get focus fired really easy and they have to do their damage from jack squat range, so they die really easily to anything ranged. Skirms and Archers can just hit and run the things.

I would agree that Flail Eles are underrated though.

Another unit I think are underrated are Cav Archers. They used to suck, but they got patched up pretty good not so long ago.

A_S: "Cunni's pic wins thread otherwise failing due to being 5-7 years behind the times."
"Brilliant cunni simply brilliant"
C_MAG: "CunniJA's post is epic win."
ingin_burner
Skirmisher
posted 05-26-08 02:45 AM EDT (US)     29 / 81       
Gren's are under-used for a reason. They require a building that costs 300 wood, that most civs will not need until the third age. Pikemen are a way better alternative. You can build 2 pike for less cost than 1 gren. These 2 pike have greater seige than 1 gren. The pike can also provide a good cover from cav. Gren's, doing less seige cost effectively to pike, also require some sort of cav cover. Pike's do more seige damage, which is the gren's bread and butter. And more benefits to pikes against military rather than buildings, the pikes are way better.
LordKivlov
Royal Guard
posted 05-26-08 02:52 AM EDT (US)     30 / 81       
So Ingin, tell me how Ottoman and Russia will make these guys with the lil' pointy sticks to burn stuff? A few Grenadiers compliment a Russian army very nicely. Granted you could use Oprichnik's but chances are they're expecting that and will have some goons or pikes at the ready if you try. Russia has essentially the British improved card for Grenadiers, only it's slightly less sieged damage and no normal attack, but it affects all your infantry. Play that, tech Incendiary Grenades and stick a little group of them in with your strelet horde and you'll be tearing down their buildings left and right.

Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan
Maffia
AoE3H Seraph
(id: fred_ernie)
posted 05-26-08 10:26 AM EDT (US)     31 / 81       
When i get into my opponents town as Russia i always try to get a few grens in with my musks and strelets. The advantage over Opris is they hide well among the other units so arn't subjected to much focus fire, and they absolutely rip through towns.

This month I have mostly been playing Dishonored Death of the Outsider and Darkest Dungeon
Steam - Maffia GFWL - Maffia01 YouTube - HGMaffia Twitter - @HGMaffia
Age of Empires 3 Heaven Seraph

What is this life if, full of care, We have no time to stand and stare.
[This message hasn't been edited by fred_ernie (or Maffia) (not edited 12-29-2005 @ 09:57 AM).]
CrazyLunatic
Veteran Musketeer
posted 05-26-08 09:47 PM EDT (US)     32 / 81       
as otto I generally make a foundry for abus guns also so what's the harm pumping out 5 or so grenadiers... they can break buildings down so well they're worth it... especially useful if the enemy has walls...
As_Saffah
Scenario Reviewer
posted 05-27-08 00:34 AM EDT (US)     33 / 81       
Clubs and pikes are cheap, and most times are enough. I'd rather have five grens than 12 clubs though when I'm sieging someone's tc. they just have more ranged resistance. But that wood is harder to come by for civs that used to have it ready to hand *coughottocough*

Crunkatog on ESO
Bart331 balance suggestion: aztec: remove civ
Voltiguer: Ender, Sioux in 1.04 will be a top civ, no matter how many layers of Sioux goggles you put on
schildpad on Elephants: ...their mansabdar unit sucks so hard it looks like a black hole
Crunkatog on Steam.
Lord_Richjp
Skirmisher
posted 05-27-08 04:43 AM EDT (US)     34 / 81       
Grens have most ranged resist - but I agree, it is a lot better if your siege unit actually functions as a part of your army (in this case anti-cav)

My grandmother slaps harder than the Agra Fort shoots. And she's dead. ~ Ender_Ward

By the same token, if I attempt to operate the mouse using nothing but my butt-cheeks, micro will also come down to "luck." ~ Beatnikjoe
Giskard
Skirmisher
posted 05-27-08 05:04 AM EDT (US)     35 / 81       
I personally think that the problem with grenadiers is that they are designed to be played in a very specific style that simply doesn't work in multiplayer. Against the computer, they are massively useful because their area of effect attack takes out half the computer's army. Against a human who will actually micromanage his/her troops, your chances of getting those perfect opportunity shots that make grenadiers cost-effective is very slim, and as already stated other units like pikemen are far better than them for any other purpose.

Giskard: BrianManahan = Tsar_Ivan_VII? Discuss.
Giskard: BrianManahan = Tsar_Ivan_VII. It's no longer a question.
Giskard: Isn't BrianManahan liable to be banned anyway for being the smurf of a banned forumer (Tsar_Ivan_VII)?
BrianManahan: I'm not sure who that is, Giskard, but I see what you is trying to do. I don't smurf >:O

(One day later) Moderator Announcements: Tsar_Ivan_VII / BrianManahan Banned Permanently - IP Match
LordKivlov
Royal Guard
posted 05-27-08 05:34 AM EDT (US)     36 / 81       
I personally think that the problem with grenadiers is that they are designed to be played in a very specific style that simply doesn't work in multiplayer. Against the computer, they are massively useful because their area of effect attack takes out half the computer's army.
Yes, they are designed to be used in a specific situation, it's called Sieging, as they're Siege Troops. They're not designed to be troop killers, that's just a bonus, they're designed to take out buildings. They compliment your army, they don't consist of it.

Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan
Giskard
Skirmisher
posted 05-27-08 09:43 AM EDT (US)     37 / 81       
@ LordKivlov:

Yes, but as ingin_burner and many others have stated, pikemen are far superior for seige purposes. Admittedly there are some civilisations that don't get pikemen, but that doesn't make grenadiers a decent unit even for them.

Giskard: BrianManahan = Tsar_Ivan_VII? Discuss.
Giskard: BrianManahan = Tsar_Ivan_VII. It's no longer a question.
Giskard: Isn't BrianManahan liable to be banned anyway for being the smurf of a banned forumer (Tsar_Ivan_VII)?
BrianManahan: I'm not sure who that is, Giskard, but I see what you is trying to do. I don't smurf >:O

(One day later) Moderator Announcements: Tsar_Ivan_VII / BrianManahan Banned Permanently - IP Match
Maffia
AoE3H Seraph
(id: fred_ernie)
posted 05-27-08 10:12 AM EDT (US)     38 / 81       
As a Russian player my strelets and musks are terrible at siege, so if i throw in a few cheap grenadiers i can then rip through an enemy town like a knife through butter, therefore in my opinion the grenadier is a good unit when used correctly.

This month I have mostly been playing Dishonored Death of the Outsider and Darkest Dungeon
Steam - Maffia GFWL - Maffia01 YouTube - HGMaffia Twitter - @HGMaffia
Age of Empires 3 Heaven Seraph

What is this life if, full of care, We have no time to stand and stare.
[This message hasn't been edited by fred_ernie (or Maffia) (not edited 12-29-2005 @ 09:57 AM).]
Giskard
Skirmisher
posted 05-27-08 12:39 PM EDT (US)     39 / 81       
@ Maffia:

I agree with what you're saying, my point is simply that just because Russians and Ottomans don't have a decent alternative to grenadiers, that doesn't make them a good unit. That would be like trying to prove that a sword is a competitive alternative to a rifle by travelling back in time and stabbing Neanderthals with it.

Giskard: BrianManahan = Tsar_Ivan_VII? Discuss.
Giskard: BrianManahan = Tsar_Ivan_VII. It's no longer a question.
Giskard: Isn't BrianManahan liable to be banned anyway for being the smurf of a banned forumer (Tsar_Ivan_VII)?
BrianManahan: I'm not sure who that is, Giskard, but I see what you is trying to do. I don't smurf >:O

(One day later) Moderator Announcements: Tsar_Ivan_VII / BrianManahan Banned Permanently - IP Match
mjsnyder
Skirmisher
posted 05-27-08 02:46 PM EDT (US)     40 / 81       
If we are talking about Grenadiers and seige.....the Russians have Opris and the Ottos have Bombards

Those are even better alternatives to grenadiers. Except, I think for colonial they don't have an alternative unit. Grenadiers come in colonial I believe. Opris are fortress and bombards industrial. So, nevermind


EDIT: WOW, so I can't read....just ignore all of that ^^^
That would be like trying to prove that a sword is a competitive alternative to a rifle by travelling back in time and stabbing Neanderthals with it.


interesting

"In war, resolution; in defeat, defiance; in victory, magnanimity." -Winston Churchill

ESO:mjsnyder
Play:TAD
Civ: Spanish
Rank: Lance Corporal

[This message has been edited by mjsnyder (edited 05-27-2008 @ 02:52 PM).]

adamh43524
Skirmisher
posted 05-27-08 02:57 PM EDT (US)     41 / 81       
Since reading this thred i have actualy started using the grenadiers, i play brits an if you mix some grens in with mush they totaly pawn a HI army! the only thing is im not realy sure how to use thm correctly, would it be better makeing a archer/musk army and them throw about 10 grens in for icing on the cake or go with a gren musk army like i have been trying.

Also i have been losing a hell of alot more using this techinic than my usual musk archer army. Should i put this down to lack of experience making them or what???

cheers, i was gunna open a new thread but i thought this would slot in quite well here.
Myll_Erik
Seraph Emeritus
posted 05-27-08 02:59 PM EDT (US)     42 / 81       
I'm surprised no-one said petards. Sneak a few in to someone's town to just wreak a ton of havoc for very little cost. Most people don't even both with them though.

Veni, Vidi, Vici
Trample the Weak - Hurdle the Dead!
"It's kind of a...persnickety magic." Atzy
End of Nations!
End of Nations Community Manager
Maffia
AoE3H Seraph
(id: fred_ernie)
posted 05-27-08 03:44 PM EDT (US)     43 / 81       
@ adamh43524
I find the best way to use grenadiers is to compliment your army with 5-10 of them rather than make an army of them.

This month I have mostly been playing Dishonored Death of the Outsider and Darkest Dungeon
Steam - Maffia GFWL - Maffia01 YouTube - HGMaffia Twitter - @HGMaffia
Age of Empires 3 Heaven Seraph

What is this life if, full of care, We have no time to stand and stare.
[This message hasn't been edited by fred_ernie (or Maffia) (not edited 12-29-2005 @ 09:57 AM).]
Flair
Skirmisher
posted 05-27-08 05:26 PM EDT (US)     44 / 81       
People are calling Grens useless for anything but siege, but they are also a good HI counter. 65 ranged resist is just amazing. However, you need to have some sort of a meatshield, usually some sort of musketeer unit, in order to prevent the HI from sneaking up and meleeing your expensive grens. They can supplement your RI nicely, while packing in the siege power that xbows and skirms severely lack.
CrazyLunatic
Veteran Musketeer
posted 05-27-08 06:43 PM EDT (US)     45 / 81       
i agree with everything on grens said... don't go all grenadier, but put about 5 or more in your army but with other troops also preferably HI such as musks/jans
adamh43524
Skirmisher
posted 05-27-08 06:46 PM EDT (US)     46 / 81       
@ Maffia cheers dude ill try it out!

Ultimitsu : james, can you please understand the counter system first before making comments on the "what counters what" subject?

Lordkivlov : Do you just like to see your own posts? Because 90% of them are pretty much useless.

"Generall every civilisation has it easy time with British." - James246
ESO: retribution1423
Emperor_Kyle
Skirmisher
posted 05-27-08 10:32 PM EDT (US)     47 / 81       
Grens are good in small numbers. They're the icing on the cake, not the cake itself.

Another underrated unit is the Cav Archer. I don't know about other people, but I find their high hitpoints to be worthwhile.

ESO2: Kyle_The_Brave
Clan: Proud Officer of Trỉρℓε ΣņτễηţϠ, [TΣ]

"Why make your own inspirational quotes when you can just read the side of O_Man's Ssips juices?" - A wise prophet
"The best way to die is to spontaneously combust during a drum solo battle with Lars Ulrich" - The Blair
Myll_Erik
Seraph Emeritus
posted 05-27-08 10:50 PM EDT (US)     48 / 81       
Cav archers just dont counter cav all that effectively and they cost a lot. Whereas goons counter cav hard and since they have a gun, you can mirco them like no other.

Veni, Vidi, Vici
Trample the Weak - Hurdle the Dead!
"It's kind of a...persnickety magic." Atzy
End of Nations!
End of Nations Community Manager
Simia
Skirmisher
posted 05-27-08 11:07 PM EDT (US)     49 / 81       
Cav archers are waay better than goons. The whole point of ranged cavalry is to counter heavy cavalry, so that you can protect your cannon or light infantry-- both very stationary units. So if you hit and run cuirassiers with your goons, you are just opening up a big path to your cannon and light infantry for the cuirs. Cavalry archers, although they may not kill cav as fast, can act as a meatshield that you can shelter your cannon behind.

Maybe FU portuguese dragoons would have enough HP to stand toe to toe with cuirasiers. But veteran/guard dragoons and ruyters? nooo

Rushing With France
the french ar general an bad civ. bcause they know what the enemy can do!
as an french u must luck that u have more crossbows then pikes. pikes ar only for buildings or cav. the deck should have in 3 hussars. thats the way to winning! a nother good card is 700 wood and 700 food. have fun by capture the enemy -Loessli

[This message has been edited by Simia (edited 05-27-2008 @ 11:07 PM).]

Lord_Richjp
Skirmisher
posted 05-28-08 05:46 AM EDT (US)     50 / 81       
If you need a meatshield against large amounts of cavalry you make HI. And you do run LI* around alot if cav is chasing them.

My grandmother slaps harder than the Agra Fort shoots. And she's dead. ~ Ender_Ward

By the same token, if I attempt to operate the mouse using nothing but my butt-cheeks, micro will also come down to "luck." ~ Beatnikjoe
« Previous Page  1 2 3 4  Next Page »
You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Hop to:    

Age of Empires III Heaven | HeavenGames