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Topic Subject:Guide To All Guides
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O_man0
Skirmisher
posted 10-22-09 09:13 PM EDT (US)         
The Guide to all Guides

As my 1000th post, I know decide that I will hopefully change advance the community for good (AKA earn a sticky).
I dont know about all of the forummers, but I know that I certainly have not tried out every civilization in the game to a high degree, know many complex strategies with these civilizations, or even know what civilizations are weak or strong against some others. Knowing the play styles and strategies of all the civilizations is essential to becoming better at this game, since it is all about prediction and countering appropriately.

With that said, people like me, who do not know what each civilization is capable of to the most precise degree, are at somewhat of a disadvantage. Now what I knew exactly what my opponent will do and exactly what I should do to counter it? I would most likely win the match. This is where this guide comes into play.
What exactly is this guide? It will be a collection of the most popular and effective strategies for each civilization, each with its appropriate counters and strengths. This way, anybody using or playing against these strategies will know generally what the most efficient way to defeat it is, even if they are supposedly at a disadvantage by it. Thats some pretty valuable information.

But theres one problem. I obviously do not have all of the information necessary to complete this guide. So this is why I call on you, the forummers, to help me complete this guide, for the good of all the other forummers.

Heres the Basic Setup.

Civ Name & Abbreviation (Civ Abrrev. this civ is good against) (Civ Abbrev. this civ is bad against)
Strat Link Type of Strategy(most useful against these civs/strats) (least useful against these civs/strats)
Helpful hints for strategy above that are otherwise not provided, or a concise write up for the strategy if is a recording, not a write up
Same as above, et cetera, et cetera.
Short strategies that are particularly effective against civs that this civ has trouble with.


So, to start, there will be no strategies on here other that Cookies and Parfaits Crossbow Contain VODs, since these are the only two sources I have really very useful. Anyways, to submit a strategy, just link it to the thread. I would like to limit off-topic posting as much as possible. Links and anything regarding the strategies is fine. Ill also need you to tell me what civilizations are at an advantage or disadvantage to others, since I am fairly uninformed on the matter.
So to start us off...

Aztec (AZ) (CH)(DU)(RU)(SX)
Guides
Aztec Colonial Guide - [Rush] - A guide discussing the several options for the Aztecs in colonial. (FF) (BOOM)
Aztec Rush Bluff Semi-FF - [InfSemi] - This strategy takes advantage of the 'Aztec Rush' concept by furthering it to a quick age-up.


British (BR) (DU)(JA)
Guides
Rise to the British Empire - General and very thorough guide to the British

Strategies
The British Hussar Musket Combo - Well written guide to an early Hussar/Musket Combo
21 Musket Rush - [Rush] - Very hard musket rush utilizing very early 2 barracks
The British Musket Sting - Similar to 21 musket rush with only 1 barracks
Brit Native Rush A Nilla strat which takes advantage of the wood cost of natives, the natives treaty card, and the british longbow, for a versatile unit combination.


China (CH)(AZ)(IQ)
Guides
Basics of China An almost all-encompassing China guide, with details on the consolate, banner armies, cards, and more.

Strategies
Basic China Colonial - By the modest 1x1
Basic China FF - [FF] - By the modest 1x1

Dutch (DU)(PO) (JA) (SX) (IQ) (IN) (BR) (AZ)
Guides
The Rise of Amsterdam V2 - A good overview of the dutch civ with some nice strats.

Strategies
Mrmilo Dutch FF! - [EcoSemi] - The classic 3 bank ff, great strat! (FF) (BOOM)
2 Dutch Semi-FF's Very strong semi-ff strats (FF) (BOOM)
Dutch Defensive Skirms The basics of a Dutch Rush Defense, based on using you buildings as a sheild for your skirmishers. (INF)


French (FR) (PO)(SP)(JA)
Guides
A Guide to the French by __Sephiroth__ - General guide, containing many French strats contained in the other guides as well as some general French strategy tips
Crazymoose's Guide de la France - General guide, containing many French strats contained in the other guides as well as some general French strategy tips

Strategies
Cuirs are cool, the French Cavalry Semi-FF - [CavSemi]- Incognoto's semi- ff with hussars (CH)(RU) (FF) (BOOM)
French Hussar Semi-FF - [CavSemi] - iTech64's semi- ff with hussars, slightly different from Incy's (CH) (RU) (FF) (BOOM)
French 2x Muskets - [Inf] - iTech64's musket rush, especially good on vanilla since not many civs have anything that counters muskets without micro in colonial (CAV)
French 2x Xbow Rush - [Inf] - iTech64's xbow rush. A good general BO, but I would put ~10 cdb on wood in transition instead of the 7 he advises. (IQ)(IN)(OT)(INF)
The PHAT or Hussar Start starts you off with in colonial with hussars instead of infantry, which can be eaqsily added later.
10 Musket Semi- FF - [InfSemi] - My 10 musket semi- ff, good against civs that are going to rush with xbows (vanilla), hussars/musket, hussar semi-ff, pure musket/pure hussar rush and booming strategies. (BOOM) (CAV) (CAVSEMI)
Demonstrating 3 French BOs. 3 very good strats to start out with france. A full hussar start which add bows later, a start in which u get pikes + hussar out real quick to counter all 5 hussar semi's and a strat for a 5 hussar semi with dual stable and 2nd hunt upgrade.


German (GM)(SP)(PO)
Cookie's Xbow Contain VOD [Inf] (INF)
Parfait's Xbow Contain VOD [Inf] (INF)


India (IN)(DU)(JA)
Guides
India Guide featuring a few strategies, such as the ones below along with a FF and KarniColonial
Strategies
10/10 - [Inf] - One of the RE patch top strats; a very fast, hard hitting rush. (SEMI) (FF)(BOOM)(CAV)
The Indian Tower of Doom An Indian strategy created to aide the India non-lameness of the FP.


Iroquois (IQ) (SP)(DU)(JA)(RU)
Iroquois BB Rush - [Inf] - James146's guide to the lame Iro BB rush, the premier lame Iro strategy. (SEMI)(BOOM)(FF)(CAV)
Iroquois SemiFF Discussion - The dawn of the FanPatch and higher-tier players prove the BB rush obselete: an alternative SemiFF gives some strategy variety (BOOM)(RUSH)


Japan (JA) (PO) (BR) (RU) (OT) (IQ) (IN) (FR) (DU)
Guides
Japanese Colonial Guide A guide brought to you be Bart which shows this civ's strengths, weaknesses, and what-to-do's

Strategies
Japanese Shrine Boom - [Boom] - The ultimate lame 1.01a strat, strong vs civs who FF or Boom. (FF)(BOOM)
Japanese Consulate Strat Strong strat for defending rushes, or to rush. Can be done with yumi/clubs or ashi/shinobi
Japanese FI NOT A GIMMICK STRAT. Very popular in the Asian community. And you know how those Asians are...


Ottoman Empire (OT) (JA) (PO) (SX)
Guides
Rise of Istanbul: A Guide to the Ottomans Sepiroth's general guide to the Ottomans. Outdated, but full of general concepts for the Ottomans.
An Ottoman Winter - A beginners Guide to the Ottomans Voodoo Boss' general guide to the Ottomans. Outdated, but full of general concepts for the Ottomans.

Strategies
Spahi Fast Fortress - [FF] - Appreciate the true power of Ottoman cavalry with this FF. Crippling to some rushes. (RU)
Ottoman Jan/Abus Rush - [Inf] - Fairly recent strong rush with very early Jan/Abus combo (INF)
8 Hussar Start - [Cav] - An effective way to stray away from Jan Rushing, meant for early large raids and fending of RI defense.
Otto Semi FI - A strategy mainly used for when you don't plan to be attacked hard early on, so that you get extremely strong Spahi/Great Bombards out with shipments.

Portugal (PO) (OT)(SP) (DU) (FR) (GM) (JA)
Guides
Micky Tee's Guide to Portugal A great guide to learn the basics and the advanced strategies of Portugal gameplay

Strategies
Husky's Port Strat - [Cav] A full hussar start for ports
Sami's Strat - Straight FF (VOD)


Russia (RU) (JA) (SX) (AZ) (IQ)
Guides
The Russian complete Guide General Guide to Russia with unit stats and card comparison. Includes 3 strats aswell.
Settler Correlation - Russia My own "spreadsheet" to help you build an economy to fit your needs rather specifically, reegardless of villager count.

Strategies
The RUMM Rush - [Inf] - A musket heavy rush for Russia. Can work well vs cavalry starts (VAN) (SX)(GR(FR)(CAV)(CAVSEMI)
Musket Cossack Rush - [Inf] - My own concoction; exactly as it sounds. A rush with Muskets and Cossacks in the begining.(SX)(GR(FR)(CAV)(CAVSEMI)
The Russian WAR - [Cav] - Another of my own strategies, which uses Russia's cavalry to start. (CH)(RU)(AZ)(SP)(FR)(INF)
Russian Strelet+Cossack Rush - [Inf] - Solid Russian old school rush going for an early blockhouse+stable
Manchu FF - [FF] - Tired of pesky fortress cavalry and cannons stomping your colonial army? This FF is the answer!


Spanish (SP)(PO)(FR)(GM)(IQ)
Spain ATP Semi FF on Mongolia Semi FF guide designed for Mongolia, but works on any TP heavy map really.
Spanish FF BO - [FF] - Basic FF by Droideka. Not as strong as in Vanilla, but still one their best strategies.
SpaColi! - [Boom] - Named and created by Incogonoto, this strategy bypasses the usual FF for an upgraded economy with harassment and/or defense.
Spain Rodelero 2v2 Though weak on their own, Rodeleroes are a great with sturdy RI company.
Spain Eco Semi The 331 dutchies give us an eco-strong start with a varied finish!

Sioux (SX) (OT) (RU) (DU)(AZ)
Guides
Sioux Survival Guide: The Last Stand An overall guide to sioux with the generic strategies written for each, including FF, Club rush, ottoman strangle, etc.
A European Invasion: Beginners guide to the Sioux Another overall guide, with Cetan rushes and Fast Fortresses.

Strategies
Sioux Power Fortress - [EcoSemi] - A strategy that gets you to fortress early with a great economy and many shipments
The SPAR - [Inf] - Asko's Sioux Pistolerro rush can be used in mirrors, orr against brits, ottos, russians, for major success at any level. (BR)(RU)(OT)(SX)
The Sioux SAFF - [CavSemi] - A semi Fast Fortress that has you raiding with 9 axe and getting to fort soon afterward.
The Sioux Cavalry Cavalcade Has you fighting in colonial with bow riders and axes, then in fortress with Rifle Riders and Wakinas

2v2
Francisco Franco Surprise - [Inf] - Don't doubt it. Despite its appearance as a nooby 2v2 pike rush, it wrecks.


Closing Notes
This is also a great time to write up any strategies you have been writing up or write up commonly used build orders that don't have a write-up yet. I will be trying stuff too with civilizations I can play well.

[This message has been edited by O_man0 (edited 11-29-2010 @ 06:13 PM).]

AuthorReplies:
wonkwink
Skirmisher
posted 10-22-09 09:45 PM EDT (US)     1 / 151       
Interesting and very good idea.

Edit: And keep in mind every civ has some amount of versatility, even taking into account only the popular strategies, and I think if it's possible to do without making this disorganized, the guides should be given a counter/weakness to an other strategy, rather than to an entire civ.

ESO name: wonkwink

[This message has been edited by wonkwink (edited 10-22-2009 @ 09:56 PM).]

O_man0
Skirmisher
posted 10-22-09 10:01 PM EDT (US)     2 / 151       
Ok then, I'll see what I can do about that... Still a lot togher to do though. I would put your strat here but idk if it works on TAD yet.

1st Leiut. with Russia , Master Sergeant with everything else.
My skill level is incalculable!!! Its been forever since I played seriously...
Mike Sass: Culverins are like Garrichistos, only theyre cannons.
DukeLeto
Skirmisher
posted 10-22-09 10:17 PM EDT (US)     3 / 151       
Good idea

France:
A Guide to the French by __Sephiroth__ - General guide, containing many French strats contained in the other guides as well as some general French strategy tips
Crazymoose's Guide de la France - General guide, containing many French strats contained in the other guides as well as some general French strategy tips
Cuirs are cool, the French Cavalry Semi-FF - Incognoto's semi- ff with hussars
French Hussar Semi-FF - iTech64's semi- ff with hussars, slightly different from Incy's I believe
French 2x Muskets - iTech64's musket rush, especially good on vanilla since not many civs have anything that counters muskets without micro in colonial
French 2x Xbow Rush - iTech64's xbow rush. A good general BO, but I would put ~10 cdb on wood in transition instead of the 7 he advises
10 Musket Semi- FF - My 10 musket semi- ff, good against civs that are going to rush with xbows (vanilla), hussars/musket, hussar semi-ff, pure musket/pure hussar rush and booming strategies.

Iroquois
Iroquois BB Rush - James146's lame Iro BB rush, the premier lame Iro strategy
O_man0
Skirmisher
posted 10-22-09 10:24 PM EDT (US)     4 / 151       
Thank you very much duke, much appreciated. So who do you find these strats particularly effective against?

Be back in ~16 hours

1st Leiut. with Russia , Master Sergeant with everything else.
My skill level is incalculable!!! Its been forever since I played seriously...
Mike Sass: Culverins are like Garrichistos, only theyre cannons.
CrazyLunatic
Veteran Musketeer
posted 10-22-09 10:31 PM EDT (US)     5 / 151       
Good idea XD

QUACK
Fuzzy044
Skirmisher
posted 10-22-09 10:34 PM EDT (US)     6 / 151       
The NVR you nub :P

10/10 Obviously :P :P is dis for TAD?

ESO: Fuzzy044
Rank: Master Sergeant lvl 17 OP!!!!
YOU ARE SMALL!!!

1X1 is nice
DukeLeto
Skirmisher
posted 10-22-09 10:38 PM EDT (US)     7 / 151       
Cav semi- ffs own russia and may be your best option vs china in general even though their muskets/pikes still beat cav.
This also can be changed easily into a hussar start and then adding muskets/xbows.

The same is true for a 10/15 musk semi-ff. It is useful vs a naked FF to kill some vills, houses, rax, ect. and then still hit fortress quickly with a better eco or also vs a more common cav semi to protect against raiding and kill their hussars to hit fort at about the same time as them (faster/slower depending of the outcome of the 5 hussar vs 10 musket battles and therefore who garrisons villagers to defend from raiding) This can also be easily transformed into a musket (and hussar perhaps) defense/rush. I'm not sure (ie: don't try it) but perhaps a 10 musk semi to aging with 6 skirms or exiled prince would be a viable strat vs a HI rush.

Xbows are pretty much your only option vs quick HI attacks. (Iros, India, Ottos, ect.)
Would a 12/10 vil (make to 9 vils and no houses then send 3 cdb for a 15 vil ageup) then 8 xbow and a batch of xbows+ MM/ TC fire be the best option vs a quick rush at 4:40- 5:20?
Bart331
Skirmisher
posted 10-23-09 04:55 AM EDT (US)     8 / 151       
really great idea o_mano, i have thought of doing something like this myself but found out it was too much work. I will try to help u as much as possible.

SUNIL IS NUB!!!

Battle.net:Bart (227)
ESO:Bart331
Bart331
Skirmisher
posted 10-23-09 05:27 AM EDT (US)     9 / 151       
(since when does dutch have easy time vs russia and japs anyway)
Dutch (DU)(RU) (JA) (SX) (CH)(IQ) (IN) (BR) (AZ)

The Rise of Amsterdam A good overview of the dutch civ with some nice strats.
Mrmilo Dutch FF! The classic 3 bank ff, great strat!
Dutch "Stadhouder Surprise" A lame vanilla strat to turtle with 200 wood tc's and colonial militia.
2 Dutch Semi-FF's Very strong semi-ff strats

Portugal (PO) (OT) (DU) (BR) (JA)

Micky Tee's Guide to Portugal A great guide to learn the basic idea's of ports gameplay
Husky's Port StratA full hussar start for ports

For france u should really add this 1:
Demonstrating 3 French BOs. 3 very good strats to start out with france. A full hussar start which add bows later, a start in which u get pikes + hussar out real quick to counter all 5 hussar semi's and a strat for a 5 hussar semi with dual stable and 2nd hunt upgrade. Probably best french strats (together with dual rax).

Japan (JA) (PO) (BR) (DU) (RU) (OT) (IQ) (IN) (FR)
Only two strat i really found usefull while playing japs were of other site (don;t know if that is accepted?):
Japanese Shrine Boom The ultimate lame 1.01a strat, strong vs civs who ff or boom.
Japanese Consulate Strat Strong strat for defending rushes, or to rush. Can be done with yumi/clubs or ashi/shinobi

SUNIL IS NUB!!!

Battle.net:Bart (227)
ESO:Bart331

[This message has been edited by Bart331 (edited 10-23-2009 @ 06:24 AM).]

mathemagician198
Skirmisher
posted 10-23-09 09:25 AM EDT (US)     10 / 151       
Ottomans:
Rise of Istanbul: A Guide to the Ottomans Sepiroth's general guide to the Ottomans. Outdated, but full of general concepts for the Ottomans.
An Ottoman Winter - A beginners Guide to the Ottomans Voodoo Boss' general guide to the Ottomans. Outdated, but full of general concepts for the Ottomans.
Ottoman Jan/Abu Rush fairly recent strong rush with very early Jan/Abu combo

British:
Rise to the British Empire General and very thorough guide to the British
The British Hussar Musket Combo Well written guide to an early Hussar/Musket Combo
21 Musket Rush very hard musket rush utilising very early 2 barracks
The British Musket Sting similar to 21 musket rush with only 1 barracks
O_man0
Skirmisher
posted 10-23-09 02:29 PM EDT (US)     11 / 151       
thanks bart.

for the dutch thing, they do indeed have an advantage v. japs, but against russia I havent seen much trouble (from my end). If I let the game get too long then yeah I sure do. Not with my really fast musket-cossack push I used against you though

I would add those fuzzy but idk where the BO's are.

Thats for the strategies again guys!

1st Leiut. with Russia , Master Sergeant with everything else.
My skill level is incalculable!!! Its been forever since I played seriously...
Mike Sass: Culverins are like Garrichistos, only theyre cannons.
CrazyLunatic
Veteran Musketeer
posted 10-23-09 03:33 PM EDT (US)     12 / 151       
they don't have an advantage vs japan, they just can fair better vs japan than other civs can

BTW, for sioux i would recommend linking cookie's other vods since his build orders are pretty well shown in those XD

QUACK

[This message has been edited by crazyLUNATIC (edited 10-23-2009 @ 03:34 PM).]

mrscientistman
Skirmisher
posted 10-23-09 05:15 PM EDT (US)     13 / 151       
Interesting - nice to have an angle on some of this. One question: Are the Germans a neutral civ in TAD? I know they own Ports and Dutch and lose to Ottomans in Nilla, but I'm not sure about TAD.

-Please tell me if you know a clan that accepts Level 2 Conscripts for vanilla (sigh, why do I insist on playing when I know I don't have enough time to finish my game)
O_man0
Skirmisher
posted 10-23-09 08:22 PM EDT (US)     14 / 151       
yeah they are pretty average, as far as im concerned.

ill try to find cookies other vods as well.

oh btw any general strategy guides (like basics for all civs) will be put on here as well.

I think I'm going to make a when/how/which FF Guide, because I never know when to or when not to do it.

1st Leiut. with Russia , Master Sergeant with everything else.
My skill level is incalculable!!! Its been forever since I played seriously...
Mike Sass: Culverins are like Garrichistos, only theyre cannons.
CrazyLunatic
Veteran Musketeer
posted 10-24-09 01:11 AM EDT (US)     15 / 151       
i think germany's considered the best european civ on TAD but of course is quite weak in comparison to japan, india, iro, aztec

QUACK
wonkwink
Skirmisher
posted 10-24-09 08:07 AM EDT (US)     16 / 151       
I would assume that in TAD:

Spain (SP) (PO)(FR)(GM)(IQ)

The Semi FFs of those 4 civs should beat semis of spain in TAD. And staying in colonial with France, Iroquois, and Germany is better too.

ESO name: wonkwink

[This message has been edited by wonkwink (edited 10-24-2009 @ 08:09 AM).]

CrazyLunatic
Veteran Musketeer
posted 10-24-09 02:35 PM EDT (US)     17 / 151       
mods, it would be a shame if this isn't stickied...

QUACK
wonkwink
Skirmisher
posted 10-24-09 02:56 PM EDT (US)     18 / 151       
I'm not completely sure how xbows are in TAD but I'm still fairly sure that archaic inf beats skirms.

So I would say Dutch (DU) (OT)(GM)(IQ)(CH)(FR)(BR)

Apparently dutch beats china though, I wouldn't trust my opinion here.

Dutch beats ottos because of skirmishers early on, then because of ottos having no strong counter to ruyters.

ESO name: wonkwink
Ha_Luke
Sig Award Winner
posted 10-24-09 03:29 PM EDT (US)     19 / 151       
Dutch - French is a very fair match up, I don't think one civ is better than the other.
I'm not completely sure how xbows are in TAD but I'm still fairly sure that archaic inf beats skirms.
If standing still yes. But you can use the longer range of the skirms, even in Nilla I didn't have any problems vs xbow rushes.

In TAD cav beats xbows much more, so there is no need to compare xbow vs skirms. In fact cav is so strong that most players do a cav start (both sides).
Dutch (DU)(PO) (RU) (JA) (SX) (CH)(IQ) (IN) (BR) (AZ)
I don't think Dutch > Japan. Yes you can win if the Japanese player doesn't overboom, but if he plays it right it's very hard for the Dutch.

I'm not so sure about China either. If the China player goes for old han + only a shipment of steppes, than yes it's easy. But if they do something different it's much more harder.

"There must be some way out of here," said the joker to the thief
[TΣ]_Ha_Luke_331



"All murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets."
-Voltaire
"A good decision is based on knowledge and not on numbers. " - Plato
No_nickname
Skirmisher
posted 10-24-09 04:20 PM EDT (US)     20 / 151       
Good idea O_man.

I'll have to finish my Otto turtle-Fast Revolt strategy so I can post it here

And my other crazy but surprisingly effective strats

Check out my YouTube channel for AoEO videos!
ESO2: No_nickname | AoEO: NoNick331
"anything less than 40 hours is nub men, me i go for like 76 hours the best as i can get to imp in 14 mins then go on holiday for 2 days then come back and make some mil or w/e" - bloodoats
Bart331
Skirmisher
posted 10-24-09 06:50 PM EDT (US)     21 / 151       
Dutch (DU) (OT)(GM)(IQ)(CH)(FR)(BR)
And dutch dont loose it against german, they are actually quite good vs german. Ruyter own uhlan, and they have better skirms.

SUNIL IS NUB!!!

Battle.net:Bart (227)
ESO:Bart331

[This message has been edited by Bart331 (edited 10-24-2009 @ 06:52 PM).]

CrazyLunatic
Veteran Musketeer
posted 10-24-09 07:07 PM EDT (US)     22 / 151       
I'm not so sure about China either. If the China player goes for old han + only a shipment of steppes, than yes it's easy. But if they do something different it's much more harder.
damn, that's the only thing i know how to do with china

so what else can be done vs dutch? going standard is suicide if they cav start (likely) since steppe get wtfpwned by hussar.

QUACK
Conquerer_MAG
Skirmisher
posted 10-24-09 07:20 PM EDT (US)     23 / 151       
I don't think Dutch > Japan. Yes you can win if the Japanese player doesn't overboom, but if he plays it right it's very hard for the Dutch.

I'm not so sure about China either. If the China player goes for old han + only a shipment of steppes, than yes it's easy. But if they do something different it's much more harder.
Dutch vs. Japan is easy because Jap is so predictable, since if a Dutch player picks the exact right strat, its pretty much gg IMO.

Dutch vs. China is easy because of the China weakness for cav - they don't have much vs a 5 huss semi, and if they go old han, just go defensive skirms. Not much to it.

GR acc name: Ultraviolet [egn]
'hey l0bst0r3r!! r u j3w!sH ?? c@n U t3LL m3 wH3r3 t0 g3t s0m3 k0sH0r r3c!p3s?
i l!k3 k0sh0r f00d th3r3's a j00ish r3st4ur4nt 4r0uNd t3h c0rn0r but it's s0 3xp3ns!v3'
-l33th4x0r
CrazyLunatic
Veteran Musketeer
posted 10-24-09 07:28 PM EDT (US)     24 / 151       
Dutch vs. Japan is easy because Jap is so predictable, since if a Dutch player picks the exact right strat, its pretty much gg IMO.
hmm idk about that... on FP i guess so since dutch is pretty strong but on RE patch japan> dutch since they can just go yumi+ consulate units(probably clubs as anticav) to beat the skirms

QUACK
dOPplesaurus
Skirmisher
posted 10-24-09 08:28 PM EDT (US)     25 / 151       
IMO dutch vs china is really quite difficult to deal with, mainly because of colonial skirms. If you go old han your pikes get owned by skirm faster then they can damage hussar, and your ckn end up getting pwned. If you go standard your steppe get torn to shreds because of low hp and you have no protection from hussar. And if you do a combination you still lose since half of your army (ckn) can't do anything while the other half gets microed to death on account of (surprise!) low hp.

Only chance IMO is either to attack before the banks come up and the dutch can get enough hussar out, or do some kind of semi-ff

Or then again it could all be because I'm a noob and pro china players can own dutch.

[This message has been edited by dOPplesaurus (edited 10-24-2009 @ 08:30 PM).]

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