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Topic Subject: The Francisco Franco Surprise
posted 05-07-07 01:10 AM EDT (US)   
Now I know most strategies are made for 1v1 and some/a lot can be applied to team games but this is purely for a 2v2, possibly even a 3v3 team to have some fun with.

Introduction:
First of all, where this strategy came from.
KingsRansom and I had been having a bad string of games, 7 losses I think it was. I had been tossing the idea of just pike rushing people around before the loss streak, and we figured we might as well try it since we were probably going to lose. The team we first used this against was players we just played and had lost to, so we tried it and brought our 7 game losing streak to an end with the silliest idea ever in a 2v2.
A Pure Pike Rush
Any team-players here will probably agree that both players making the same unit is in itself stupid but for both of them to be pikes is just insane.

Francisco Franco was the revolutionary war general in the Spanish Civil War (1936-1939) and facist leader of Spain (1939-1975) and Franco also just means French. So combined we have the Spanish French Hidden Pike rush or -
The Francisco Franco Surprise

I cannot stress this enough:
The entire purpose of everything you do is to throw the game into confusion. Make the enemy second guess themselves and second guess their next move
Make the enemy go WHAT THE HELL JUST HAPPENED
Make them cry that they lost to a pike rush.



Why this strategy actually works:
1. Spain's Archaic training coupled with Frances eco capability is devistating.
2. What you kill with your pikes. (TC's, Houses, TP's)
3. Your opponents have a judgement call. They can push their rush onto your base and only kill one of your TC's and half of the base or they can lose both theirs and their vills.
4. Deception. Everything about this strategy is about deception.

Things to know:
Run your villagers around the perimiter of the map or close to it, they cannot be found otherwise they'll know you're rushing and not trying to FF.
Make it appear that you're FF'ing. If spain isn't high enough lvl for 500 food age up, put the tower in a defensive position, they'll scout your base, see the villagers gathering crates, the tower in defensive spot, and how your deck is set up (FF, 5 Lancers, 2 falc, etc.) will expect you to hit fort instead of rushing.
Once you've got 15-20 pikes, they're usually moving their units to attack you, once you see their units hit LoS send your pikes in, by the time they reach your TC, you'll have set upon theirs with a fiery rage of 30-40 pikes all with a 15% siege boost.

Strenghts
Element of Surprise
Conversion of Pike and Crossbows to Rodeleros and Skirmishers
High Siege damage means their TC's drop in less than 30 seconds each, can get both even under minutemen fire.

Weaknessess
Leave yourself open to attack.
1(hopefully) of you will POSSIBLY lose your TC.

Maps:
Any map will work, although some work alot better than others. Saguenay is great because you can sneak in behind the top-back guy and rush downward. GreatLakes works nicely too since no one expects a rax to be on the other side of the Trade Route.
If you play a map like Painted Desert where their TC's are very far apart, the game has been handed to you on a silver platter. You can get behind and between both TC's, and theres a large distance for their units to catch up to your pikes once the TC has been dropped.
Spain's Build Order
Written by: LordKivlov

Required Cards:
Three (3) Villagers
TEAM Archaic Infantry Training
Seven-Hundred (700) Wood
TEAM Hand Infantry Attack
Seven-Hundred (700) Coin
Two (2) Falconents
Five (5) Lancers

Recommended Cards:
Tercio Tactic's
Five (5) Villagers
Colonial Estancias
Caballaros

Discovery Age

1. 2 Villagers unpack crates, rest to food, all subsequent villagers to food.
2. Build a house with starting wood, or two if you start with 200.
First Card: 3 Vills
3. Once at 15 villagers, gather till 800 food and age up with either tower/200 coin or 500 food.

Transition: Discovery Age -> Colonial Age

4. 5 Villagers remain on food, 8 move onto wood and 2 begin to walk around the edge of the map.
5. At 300 wood, build a house and then shift 3-5 vills back onto food depending on who you aged with.
Second Card: TEAM Archaic Infantry Training

Colonial Age
Third Card: 700 Wood
6. Build a rax and shift the vills onto wood, begin producing pikes untill you have 20-25 or go with how many you have when they attack. (Never go with less than 15 each)
7. Keep vill production as constant as you can.
Fourth Card: TEAM Hand Infantry Attack
8. Attack!

If all goes right, only your TC should be dead if at all, both of theirs should be dead. Once you kill the first ones TC, immediatly get to the next guys and drop his TC, then you can clean up and take TP's and houses down. If and only if you feel confident you can take the other guys TC without trouble, kill villagers with your pikes when the 1st TC drops.

If they proceed to your teammates base they will be met by crossbows and wardogs, get your TC back up ASAP, ship 700 coin and get to fort and bring out the falcs while still producing pikes.

The great part of this is if you keep your pikes alive, you run em back to your base for later harassment and then once you get around 50-70 convert them to rods.

French Build Order:
Written By: KingsRansom

Required Cards:
3 Coureur de Bois
700 Wood
700 Coin
2 Falconets

Recommended Cards:
Tiralleurs
Wilderness Warefare
Long-Ranged Infantry Hitpoints
TEAM Ranged Infantry Attack
8 Crossbows
Colonial Militia
3 Hussars
4 Coureur de Bois
700 Food

Dicovery Age
Standard French DA.
3 Vills unpack crates, rest to food.
Build 1-2 Houses pending starting wood
First Card: 3 Coureur de Bois
Age with 14 CdB.


Transition: Discovery Age -> Colonial Age
5 CdB shift to wood, 2 begin to sneak around to the designated hidden rax spot Rest stay on food.
Build a market and research hunting dogs and lumber.

Colonial Age
Second Card: 700 Wood
Put a rax up beside your teammates rax and begin to pump out pikes. Don't house yourself.
Put a rax up locally and once you reach 15-20 pikes begin to make crossbows for defense. Send your pikes in with your teammates and take TC's out first.
Keep CdB production constant.
Third Card: Wild Card - 700 Food, 4 CdB, 8 Crossbow, 3 Hussar, Long-Range Infantry Hitpoints Your job is to defend against their attack, if the crossbows you're making can do the job ship 4 CdB and continue to boom, otherwise get the 8 crossbow or 3 hussars or 700 food to spam xbows.

Once you've successfully defended their attack, your teammate should be heading to fort and you should be right behind him. Spam out crossbows for conversion, your teammates pikes will be rods and your xbows will be skirms giving you a very very strong army (50-70 Rods and 50-70 skirms)


-----------

This rush works vs everyone, any civ combo will fall to this although France and Britain combo will put up a fight since CdB can rape your pikes and Brit's have plenty of wood to put their TC back up immediatly.
I find it works the best vs Otto since you take their TP's with them and then they're screwed.
If enough people, or anyone really I can post where I hide my rax and good places to hide them as a SS of the minimap.

Records:
Kiv+King vs 2 Captains on Andes
Kiv+Satchmo. Britain can do it too!

If you've downloaded one of the recs before you see this message, add .age3xrec to the end otherwise you can't watch it

Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan

[This message has been edited by LordKivlov (edited 05-17-2007 @ 06:37 PM).]

Replies:
posted 05-07-07 06:54 PM EDT (US)     1 / 24  
hahha you beat me n maqa with this -_-

how many villagers to have in your deck? i cant read..oh! five (5)

well explained kivlov

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posted 05-07-07 07:31 PM EDT (US)     2 / 24  
Nice strat, nice writting, very neat and tidy, well explained.

but i dont like the name... Franco was Hi**** "friend" (i am jewish... )

but teh strategy is good
posted 05-07-07 08:14 PM EDT (US)     3 / 24  
well written and looks like an awesome strategy. two thumbs up

ESO2: mista_mista
"Baby, you like shopping? Well, I like sieging town centers and raiding villagers..." -DONofCHRON
"Then theres the aztecs. With their 35 guys on the pit they can spit out vills faster than george bush can spit out troops into Iraq." -Cookiecrisp13
posted 05-07-07 09:37 PM EDT (US)     4 / 24  
Ever consider switching French to Dutch? This would be a great time for a South Sea Bubble sling...

This also works well with the early Dutch skirmishers. Besides, who expects a Dutch player to rush? The Dutch also have some infantry upgrade cards if I remember correctly. Good luck.
posted 05-07-07 09:52 PM EDT (US)     5 / 24  
Great team strategy! I love to see more team strategies out there as I find team games a lot of fun. I may post the one me and a clan mate been collecting wins with soon (completely different).

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posted 05-07-07 10:41 PM EDT (US)     6 / 24  
well archaic has always been one of the best team rushing cards in the game. the only civs that cant get a benifit from it are otto and russia.

the idea of a pure pike rush is kinda neat though as long as they dont see it coming.

I would probably suggest not sending archaic that early though. I send it almost every time I play spanish but its not usually until at least the third card, usually the 4th. Reason being it does nothing for you yet in age 1 where shipping 300 wood as 2nd shipment will allow you to get a jump on the first rax and a house or grab a tp.
Archaic as third card still doesnt help a lot as at least i'm not ready to really spam pike eco wise. Ideally 700 wood comes next and archaic as the 4th card, but then again your ally should probably be in a slightly better position to spam so getting archaic out of the way early can be more beneficial to them.

the great thing about achaic is that if your rax gets spotted you can both switch to fast xbow at that point and still have a good shot at winning the rush.
I also think a highly recommended card should be fencing school though. If it drags out into a colonial struggle 90% faster xbow and pike is a huge advantage.
posted 05-07-07 10:44 PM EDT (US)     7 / 24  
Well the core of the reason I have the two civs picked is because of Archaic Training and CdBs.

In truth I have considered other civs and tried them. Spain/Britain works, Dutch should work just fine in place of France too. We just wrote it as France/Spain because spain is essential and Kings plays France but not Britain or Dutch (Those 2 or tertiary civs).

So yea, Dutch could work great, I know Brit works great too, pretty flexible IMO since it's just a pike rush but I like doing it with France better since their CdB can prevent their base from being torn apart after mine is.

And I'm sorry Eicho, I meant no offense to anyone with the name.

Rec is up
and Cookie it was you and Jester not maqa, We got maqa and jester with it another time :P

Edit:

Yea, I suppose sending it later could be better, but the idea is to both get to 15 pikes ASAP and get them ready to go, and even if your pikes are spotted you can wait for them to come to your rax and then sprint off and get their TC.

The only problem is when your vills get seen, because then the surprise is gone they know you're going to rush and not going to go "OH CRAP" when they stumble into a bunch of pikes right outside their TC's LoS.

Thanks for the comments, much appreciated!

And cyclo you've peaked my interest about that strat


Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan

[This message has been edited by LordKivlov (edited 05-08-2007 @ 01:18 AM).]

posted 05-07-07 10:58 PM EDT (US)     8 / 24  
when i did this i used brits. do the pike s normal, then make lbows to help fend your bases or to mop up enemy bases.also as brits i was the one who took the enemy rush about 85% of the time, this isnt a big problem if you send either IB or CM, and can easily recover by manor building

also: it is generaly a good practise to get most of your villies to leave your base and go hide out in the wilderness,so when your base is pushed over you can still gather res and rebuild
posted 05-08-07 00:47 AM EDT (US)     9 / 24  
Great Strategy


PS what does CB and IM mean?
posted 05-08-07 09:09 AM EDT (US)     10 / 24  
CM is Colonial Militia (card) and IM is Improved Buildings (card).

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posted 05-08-07 10:27 AM EDT (US)     11 / 24  
When I first saw that you were suggesting a pure pike rush I was a little skeptical, but then I read your bo and though a bout it a little bit and I was pretty impressed.

Seems like a good strat!
posted 05-11-07 06:27 PM EDT (US)     12 / 24  
Record is up, and I've got one doing it in a 1v1, but since it's a 2v2 strat I won't post it unless anyone wants to see it.

Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan
posted 05-12-07 10:07 AM EDT (US)     13 / 24  
Im a pretty active team player, and i see a few problems with this.


The major one is what if one of them sends their army back....it really isn't difficult to kill pikes you know.

Another; what if they don't rush? if they go for a defensive strat this will get owned,

Against a hardcore rush this should do great tho :P

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posted 05-12-07 10:22 AM EDT (US)     14 / 24  
I think this could work really well.
Especially if one of your oponents decided to go cav

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posted 05-12-07 01:43 PM EDT (US)     15 / 24  
Well if its pure pike rush u wont be needing that card to make x bows into skirms.

Perhapps spain dutch could do a really good version of this team hand inf attack team archaic training. team inf hp. + dutch get 8 pikes and can do that funny thing with like 30 pikes at 5 mins.

If u dont have any team cards u can ship like france. Then maybe invest in fencing school.
posted 05-12-07 03:39 PM EDT (US)     16 / 24  
The major one is what if one of them sends their army back....it really isn't difficult to kill pikes you know.
Actually it is rather difficult, we split our forces and run opposite directions, they can't pursue both of us and they won't be able to catch up to pikes with LI*. then we meet up across the map at the other guys base.
Another; what if they don't rush? if they go for a defensive strat this will get owned,
Then you switch to FF and convert pikes and xbows to skirms and rods and go on the offensive again.
Well if its pure pike rush u wont be needing that card to make x bows into skirms.
Tiralleurs is there if your opponents decide to stick it out and run to their FB and retreat their forces from your base. Since we're pike rushing, after the 20 pikes have been made by the french he begins to produce crossbows at his base to defend so eventually his pikes will die and only the spanish player will be left with them to convert them to rodelero.

The large majority of players will try and fight it off thinking your eco is in shambles like theirs, but thats where they're wrong. The other few just resign once you get both their TC's down. I have another record but for some reason I can't add it to my post :|

Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan

[This message has been edited by LordKivlov (edited 05-12-2007 @ 03:41 PM).]

posted 05-12-07 04:11 PM EDT (US)     17 / 24  
Well if its pure pike rush u wont be needing that card to make x bows into skirms.

The second most important thing about this strat but may have not been shown well is for the Frenchman to spam xbows after making about 20 or so pikes and to stop making pikes and spam xbows while Spain keeps making pikes you both go fort if the game drags on and you convert to skrim+rod combo and ship in 4 falcs between the two, then its gg from there.
Most of the strat revolves around France's ability to constantly pump 5 units from 2 barracks non stop so you are creating offense and defense if they stop your pike rush.

"Obstacles do not exist to be surrendered to, but only to be broken." - Adolf Hitler

Proud citizen of Sovietcanuckistan.

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[This message has been edited by KingsRansom (edited 05-12-2007 @ 04:14 PM).]

posted 05-13-07 10:56 AM EDT (US)     18 / 24  
Very nice strat, well presented and well written.

I like the Tercio Tactics and Tiralleurs bit too, especially.

armyballer - Another 3v3, this time my team is winning, (about an hour into it). One of the other team players admits defeat and resigns, then out of no where I get OOS message. I'm pissed, I again log onto agecommunity and see I have been given a LOSE. How did this happen?

AceOfKings - ender_ward hacked into your game and made it go OOS

Unban JamesLock
posted 05-13-07 11:22 AM EDT (US)     19 / 24  
with my friend I've been doing a very similar strat for a while in 2v2, except that we spam xbows and add some pikes later on for siege or anti-cav

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posted 05-13-07 12:49 PM EDT (US)     20 / 24  
Well if I'm playing as Dutch like normal and I see a forward base with barracks for each Spain and France, I guarantee that I will make skirms. 15 skirms> this rush.

ESO: JarlNick

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posted 05-13-07 01:41 PM EDT (US)     21 / 24  
Well you won't be seeing the rax because we do everything we can to keep it hidden ie. chase your explorer and envoy around with war dogs. Also the first game we did this the guy made skirms, we rushed his buddy, housed him got some vills, and went to his base, saw the skirms and ran away, went fort got lancers and cuirs and converted pikes to rods and xbows to skirms and ran their base over.

You'll be looking at our decks and finding no rax so you'll think FF and rush or follow with a FF only to be smashed up by pikes.

Also I just realized I cut off the .age3xrec on both the records I uploaded, so if you've downloaded it and can't watch just add that onto the end.

For some reason I can't edit the original post to add records and change some things in the write up, weird

Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan

[This message has been edited by LordKivlov (edited 05-14-2007 @ 06:26 PM).]

posted 05-15-07 05:24 PM EDT (US)     22 / 24  
Im gonna try this soon. Seems like a great strategy to throw out there every once in a while.

the only thing we have to fear is fear itself, that and a freaking longbow rush in early colnial.
posted 05-17-07 01:05 PM EDT (US)     23 / 24  
Yeah i have to give it to ya this is a good strat. I woudlent think so if u couldent turn pikes to rods and x bows to skirms. But since u can and since will wreck alot of there base before u even make them into rods skirms. I think this could really own. Ill have to watch the rec when i can gj.
posted 05-17-07 06:39 PM EDT (US)     24 / 24  
Ahh there we go can finally edit it.

I fixed the files, both records have the proper .age3xrec on the ending so if you DL now you don't need to add it to watch.

I added a record with a British teammate on Patagonia, works just as well except he can't defend himself as well as France can.

Also fixed the French # of vills to unpack crates, 3 not 2.

Thanks for the replies!

Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan
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