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Topic Subject: Age Of Empires IV: World in Pandemonium
posted 03-12-12 01:05 PM EDT (US)   
*Note don't archive this whole forum I just got here.

The name I chose for the newest addition to the AoE series is well fitting. I chose World in Pandemonium because I think the best time to base it is, 1850s to 1950s, half of this time period was world wars.


Where AoE3 leaves us off there isn't a lot more history to tell, but one thing I do notice is they stop short of the civil war. They Incorporated the Ironclad and Gatling Gun , with TWC, but we all know those were made in America just around the time of civil war. Not the Revolution.


Where should we go from here?
Pre American Civil War to End of World War II. This is the most Ideal time period left because we all know modern war gets old. Its all computer tracking, heat seeking, attack helicopters, bombing runs. Also most video games are based in modern times now. So 1850s to 1950s would suit just fine.



First the ages: For a 100 year span I think 5 would do fine. Also 8 civilizations work well too. I think they should be based around powers during world war II primarily,even if they weren't important in 1850. I think Civilizations should include U.S.A., U.K., France, Germany, Soviet Union, Italy, Japan, and Hungary.


Newer Concepts Ideas:

I think gold should be replaced with currency and also cannot be mined. Iron on the other hand (Necessary for Most Military units) will take its place. Also Coal should be added for early ships. Once age 3 would be hit by a player (1890-1910) coal deposits would become oil deposits. Coal and Oil Mines would need to be garrisoned by workers to collect resources. This would always keep the game at 5 resources, but currency would not need to be collected. By selling other resources or having more currency generating buildings (Bank, Manufacturing Plant, Theater, Apartment Building) you would acquire currency. A new dynamic to the game would be the addition of cover. Workers would gain the ability to build stone walls in Age 1, which military units could hide behind offering some protection. Cover could be taken behind nearly any object (a building, rock, or built defensive object.) In Age 3 trenches could be built by workers and infantry could lay down sandbags. Also in defense the watchtower would be replaced with the bunker in Age 3. Instead of traditional wood and stone walls to keep out the enemy, Wire Fences would be built in Age 2. These would stop infantry but would not affect vehicles, and can be cut by any infantry(takes some amount of time). Also an option to set population cap, up to 400 or 500.


Age 1: 1850 to 1870
In this age it will be mostly about economy, the game play in this age will remind people of AoE3, the buildings will look similar and units. No cavalry or artillery can be purchased. Many economic buildings can be built but no military buildings. A basic musket infantry can be created from the town center. Watchtower and stone wall defensive structures could be built. Fishing trawlers and a warship with sails for transport could be created from the dock. Bank can be used to collect currency. A Horse-drawn carriage can be built for TC and transport 6 units quickly. Food, Wood, and Currency are most used.

Age 2: 1871 to 1890
This age will start to boom economy and start some skirmishes and small fights over land. Buildings now almost all look different. The town center looks like a 5 story building made out of brick, most buildings will be brick themed. More Production and Upgrade buildings can be created. A manufacturing plant can be built to generate currency. Riverside factories can be built to quickly produce food and units. Workers now have the ability to be converted to the lowest rank of infantry for a cost. Ironclads can be purchased and more infantry is available. Military units now use lever action and percussion cap rifles which are faster and more accurate than muskets. Gatling gun and Field Cannons can be built from Production Factory. A stable can be built and infantry can mount purchased horses. Gatling Carriages could be built as a formidable foe in clearings. Food, Wood, Coal, Iron, and Currency are all used.

Age 3: 1891 to 1910
In this age most players economies will be stable. Larger battles occur in the field. A larger variety of infantry can be purchased. A training field can be built to rank units overtime instead of wasting time standing around. A larger Variety of Artillery is now available along with extensive upgrades to all weapons from Factories. Theaters can be built to generate even more currency. Cavalry start to become less used. High ranking infantry use revolvers and swords.Docks have become ports with defensive artillery. Naval combat remains primarily the same except the addition of the 20th century warship designed to slip past slower ironclads. Workers can now dig trenches for units to hide in, watchtowers are replaced with bunkers. Infantry can now build sandbag fortifications quickly costing little currency. The airfield can be built from an expensive upgrade from the Factory. The Airfield can build Airship transports and Airship bombers. These can be shot down by town centers and some artillery. This age largely depends on Food, Currency, Iron, and Coal.

Age 4: 1911-1930
Infantry now can be equipped with semi-automatic, automatic, and bolt-action rifles. Grenades have come into us, as with mortar teams, Machine gun implacements can be built by the garrisoned infantry. AA guns can be built by workers,the town center also has one as an upgrade. Long range mounted artillery can be set up, but not moved. Small Tanks, Armored Cars, Half Tracks, Anti-Tank Vehicles, Transport Trucks, and Jeeps can now be built from Production Factories where Cavalry used to. An Armored artillery trucks replaces most cannons. Bi-Planes and Tri-Planes can be built from the Airstrip which replaced the airfield. Destroyers replaced the Ironclad, Battleships cruisers, carriers, and 20th century warships can be built. Tall apartment buildings can now be built to generate loads of currency. Barb wire replaces trenches. Tanks blocks can now be built to stop the advance of tanks. Food, Currency, Iron, and Oil play major parts in this age.

Age 5: 1931-1950
Infantry is now super advanced. Although weapons have remain largely the same rocket launchers have been added to defend against vehicles. Mono-planes, 4 engine bombers, and transport plans can now be built from and airport or aircraft carrier. Better upgrades for every naval unit is available, u-boats, and submarines have replaced the 20th century warship. Heavier tanks, and larger trucks have replaced the older ones. Radar can be purchased along with helicopters as end game technology. Radio towers can be placed a lookout beacons and bunkers are much more powerful. Most Infantry use semi-automatic rifles and handguns. Currency, Iron, and Oil will play important roles for those who achieve this age.

So as you can tell i left it semi general and left names up to Microsoft Games and Ensemble Studios. I Only wanted to share a general idea of what i'd want it to look like still keeping it simple and not taking too much from other strategy games.

What do you think, let me know?

[This message has been edited by Olympianmind (edited 03-17-2012 @ 04:17 AM).]

Replies:
posted 03-12-12 07:57 PM EDT (US)     1 / 11  
There's no where to go but back...

Just look at Age of Empires Online... they didn't go forward from the Age of Exploration, but back.
posted 03-16-12 11:54 PM EDT (US)     2 / 11  
From 1931 to 1950... From biplanes to jets in a single age, seems a bit of a stretch. Could work though, if you were prepared to simplify enough.
posted 03-17-12 03:48 AM EDT (US)     3 / 11  
Personally I'd end it at the outbreak of WWII

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posted 03-17-12 04:10 AM EDT (US)     4 / 11  
@MatthewII

Its not from Bi-Planes to Jets. in 1931-1950 you are only in the era of single engine monoplanes in the era before it was bi-planes. the jet engine will not be developed at all in this game. Also another note: Most People who post this forum think there should be nukes. and I think that would only ruin the game entirely.
posted 03-17-12 04:37 AM EDT (US)     5 / 11  
Personally I'd end it at the outbreak of WWII
That could work. Also, the stable belongs in Age 1, as does the ironclad.
Its not from Bi-Planes to Jets. in 1931-1950 you are only in the era of single engine monoplanes in the era before it was bi-planes.
Yeah, that would explain the Fiat CR.42, Gloster Gladiator, Fairey Swordfish, Polikarpov I-15 and Antonov An-2. When you make a statement, be sure to check there are no exceptions.
the jet engine will not be developed at all in this game.
So the fact that the Western Allies were building jets left right and centre by 1950 (From the British you had the Gloster Meteor and the De Havilland Vampire, and from the Americans everything from the P-80 to the B-45 and F-86) means nothing?

[This message has been edited by MatthewII (edited 03-17-2012 @ 05:07 AM).]

posted 03-18-12 09:12 PM EDT (US)     6 / 11  
"So the fact that the Western Allies were building jets left right and centre by 1950 (From the British you had the Gloster Meteor and the De Havilland Vampire, and from the Americans everything from the P-80 to the B-45 and F-86) means nothing?"

I do understand the correct history of the jet engine, but it would be too fast and overpowered to be placed in the game. AoE has always been relatively slow and maps tend to be small. A jet fighter would require atleast twice the distance as a bi-plane to appear realistic in its flight. But, If history was to remain entirely correct there would be jet engines in the last age. Also I do agree with the stable being in age 1, but i am not sure of the ironclad.

[This message has been edited by Olympianmind (edited 03-18-2012 @ 09:13 PM).]

posted 03-18-12 09:54 PM EDT (US)     7 / 11  
AoE has always been relatively slow and maps tend to be small. A jet fighter would require atleast twice the distance as a bi-plane to appear realistic in its flight.
Not really, the F-86 only had a range of 1,500 miles, compared to the 2,000 miles or so for the B-17 and B-24 and the more than 3,000 miles for the B-29.
Also I do agree with the stable being in age 1, but i am not sure of the ironclad.
The first ironclad was launched in 1859, the battle of Hampton Roads (the one with the Merrimac and the Monitor) was in 1862, the battle of Lissa (the first to involve ironclads in the battle-line) was in 1866, ironclads were around right enough before 1870, if you want to go for an innovation in Age 2, go for turrets, only the Monitors got them before 1870, and they were pretty much river/coast-only craft. Mechanics wise, turrets allow your ships to fire at enemies which aren't directly alongside them, an important development if you don't allow instant turning the way AoE2 did.
posted 03-18-12 10:24 PM EDT (US)     8 / 11  
"Not really, the F-86 only had a range of 1,500 miles, compared to the 2,000 miles or so for the B-17 and B-24 and the more than 3,000 miles for the B-29."

When I talked about this I was not talking about range I was talking about speed. The F-86 had a top speed of just under 700 mph, while bi-planes in the years before only reached 200 to 250 mph some higher. So if a F-86 was wanted to appear realistic at all in flight, at 700 mph its turning radius would be a lot larger than a bi-plane traveling at 200 mph.So to look more accurate the maps would need to be larger. AoE wasn't always correct to scale I will say, but they do not do bad. But, If realism was not considered a jet fighter could make turns abruptly thus fitting well in the game.
posted 03-19-12 04:06 AM EDT (US)     9 / 11  
AoE wasn't always correct to scale I will say, but they do not do bad.
'Not too bad' is a matter of opinion, of sure, AoE3 is a lot closer than the previous ones, but even then ships and people are a lot closer in size than they should be, although at least now ships look reasonably like ships, rather than like rowing dinghys (for those that look like they can take people at all).
But, If realism was not considered a jet fighter could make turns abruptly thus fitting well in the game.
Abrupter than they would in reality, although I'd still make their turning circle bigger than biplanes.
posted 04-02-12 04:58 PM EDT (US)     10 / 11  
I am disappointed that the planned AoE4 is going to be a remake of the older games. I still think there is one more leap forward to make, finishing the 'Age of Empires' saga. Ah well, I am by no means a programmer on the Robot Entertainment team. Anyway Matthew I do agree with what you said. Still needs to be on a much grander scale though. And ships are much improved.
posted 04-03-12 07:15 AM EDT (US)     11 / 11  
People were posting here so much, and there is a lot for me to read... Yet, I wanted to post some comments of mine.

First, here we are talking what would be the best, but we do not know if anything of these is ever going to happen. But whatever!


First thing I saw, and I think none commented - one of the countries you mentioned is Hungary! Why Hungary, that country wasn't existed before WWI, and after WWI it was "irrelevant country". I don't mean to offend any Hungarian, but it wasn't a strong country - and that is the point. Me personally - I would love to see Kingdom of Yugoslavia in this game - but it wasn't existed until WWI ended, and although it was a great ally of Great Britain and France, it was weakened before the outbreak of WWII, and Hitler relatively easily defeated us in 1941. Nevertheless, I would more gladly suggest Austro-Hungarian Monarchy, it was one of the most important countries during WWI, and hypothetically it could have not fall apart if WWI ended in a different way (hypothetically!).

And Soviet Union: I would suggest it to be called Russia until Age 4, and as soon as the player advanced to Age 4, the country would be renamed to Soviet Union - it think that could be interesting. Or without changing the name - just Russia!


As about technologies: I haven't read it all, but I think it would be the best not to have "huge technological jumps", as it is the case in all other "Age of ..." games. First of all I mean on airplanes, we don't want to see players in "similar ages", when one have plains and the other one have no way to defend! It could be for example:
-age3: anti aircraft guns, and only plains for scounting
-age4: first bombers and fighters
-age5: fighters and bombers such as Luftwaffe's or Zero's
There is no reason why not to allow nukes in my opinion - first you would have to research that technology in a building such as Capitol in Age of Empires III, and then you would have an expensive plain such as american B29.


I promise, I will read all your texts later guys!


AFTER READING IT ALL
Now I see that you were writing about biplanes and jets! We all agree that those first jets were planes that were pretty fast, they needed a lot of fuel, and they also had a short range. So if jets were going to be in the game, they would have to be like this: highly effective, fast, and they would have to be able to stay in the sky much less time than biplanes. The other solution would be not to have jets in the game at all - they would be too powerful, and therefore it would not be acceptable.

You may all see - I think that making to many changes is not acceptable, AOE is a great game as it is, and there is no need to change it. Therefore, players would be unable to build troops in age1, just like in AOE3 for example, and if players want, they can start from some other age to play. Some things shouldn't be changed!

[This message has been edited by EaglePrince (edited 04-03-2012 @ 09:56 AM).]

Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » Future Robot, Bonfire, Windstorm, and NewToy Games Forum » Age Of Empires IV: World in Pandemonium
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